[NA] Bought an S4

[Sac Arrow]

It's only available in an automatic. If I had to choose between a manual and more horsepower, I'll take the manual nearly every time.

Yeah, I have always been of that mindset. Right now I'm tooling around in a Nissan with a CVT. Mileage is really good. A CVT is definitely a different animal than a manual or a traditional automatic, but I really like it. Depending on how you drive it, it acts as a CVT, in other words, constant engine speed, variable acceleration, or sort of like a geared automatic with soft shift points. In any case, the CVT gets better mileage than the manual.

It's a Sentra. I'm obviously not in to cars for the status symbol. But damn that thing is a lot of car for the money.

 

[arnoha]

Yeah, I have always been of that mindset. Right now I'm tooling around in a Nissan with a CVT. Mileage is really good. A CVT is definitely a different animal than a manual or a traditional automatic, but I really like it. Depending on how you drive it, it acts as a CVT, in other words, constant engine speed, variable acceleration, or sort of like a geared automatic with soft shift points. In any case, the CVT gets better mileage than the manual.

It's a Sentra. I'm obviously not in to cars for the status symbol. But damn that thing is a lot of car for the money.

It's a bit sad. Everything except a traditional planetary gearset, torque converter automatic is an endangered species right now. That was kind of guaranteed once they figured out how to make 8 to 10 speed autos for a reasonable price. The manual transmission's primary selling point at the low end, fuel economy, just isn't true anymore. The primary selling point on the high end, speed and control, is also of questionable veracity, especially for your average driver. The computer will just do it better. Several features expected on high end cars are also impossible with a manual, like auto-park. The DSG can't compete, either: too costly and complex without any apparent gain. The CVT can't compete: limited torque capability paired with a driving dynamic most find annoying. (Logical or not, the market has mostly rejected the CVT.)

But, man, something is still lost in translation. I love the interactivity of the manual, of being connected to the car. It's not sensible and it's not logical. I love getting it right and learning something when I don't. I like never having the ask the questions, "Why's it doing that?" or "Why won't you DOWNSHIFT, M-F-ER?!" Dunno why this. I certainly don't wax nostalgic for the red knob in my plane. I'd be perfectly happy to see that anachronism disappear. But, then again, I do like the blue knob when it's available. My current plane doesn't have one and I miss it.

 

[Steve Costello]

I don't think any of the German cars are known for their reliability and when you add in all of the complexity it seems like the cost/benefit is way out of line. But people,like the status symbols.

I have a 2007 VW Passat (when they still made them in Germany). I've had a great experience with that car. Just broke 110,000. I think the only issue I've really had is the fact that since the car has half shafts, it actually has FOUR CV boots. And, of course, they don't all fail at the same time. So that's been sort of expensive.

Other than that, the car is still a blast to drive. Other non-German cars of similar vintage/size/price (Camry, Accord, etc) feel like I'm driving a wet sponge.

 

[Stewartb]

We still have our '07 V8 Touareg. That's been an exceptional car and was a big factor in why we bought the Q5. German cars are awesome. I also have a Toyota Forerunner. Compared to the Q5 is has a bigger engine, uses more gas, and isn't nearly as responsive or nimble. I like the Toyota just fine but I'm a truck guy. My wife likes sporty cars. I had an appointment to test drive a Lexus LS500 last weekend. I skipped it. That's a pretty nice looking ride but I'm not in the market for another car. Not one that I'd be afraid to put the dog in!

 

[Craig]

You got a set of tires for less than $1000? I cant seem to find tires for the wifes SUV for less than 200 each. Good find

Actually I got lucky. I had a rebate card from putting Michelin's on my bug. I applied it to the Audi putting Continental DWS Extremes, and it brought them down from about 215$ each. 75$ discount on the four, applied after a small discount for buying 4 tires anyway. I think I had just over 1100$ in the tires, hazard warranties and 5 new TPMS sensors.

 

[asicer]

(Logical or not, the market has mostly rejected the CVT.)

I'm not so sure about that. The only 4cyl automatic transmission that Honda sells in the Accord, Civic and CRV is their CVT. They don't sell discrete gear automatics with 4cyl engines any more. Same with Toyota Corollas.

 

[Pilawt]

Same with Toyota Corollas.

Our '16 Corolla S has CVT. Other than revving pretty high in hard acceleration, it's hard to tell it from a traditional automatic, with simulated shift points programmed into the system. We average 32.5 mpg, so they're doing something right.

 

[genna]

Believe it or not, it's not a status symbol for me. There wasn't much else out there that met my wishlist (which was, admittedly, a bit particular):

1. Manual transmission (always driven manuals)
2. Four doors with decent rear seat legroom (kid + kid on the way)
3. Relatively new (2010 was my arbitrary date, it's a 2011)
4. Reasonable miles (~10-12,000 per year, 60,000 on this car)
   
5. Good condition (don't have time anymore for a project car, this car looks and drives nearly new)
6. Around 300 HP (STI has spoiled me)
7. Not completely miserable gas mileage (I was thinking about the Chevy SS, but 13-15 MPG??)
8. Reasonably comfortable (I was done with the STI's track-tuned, modified suspension)
9. Not a Subaru or Mini (Love 'em...but I already did 11 years in the STI and have a Mini)
10. No Lexus or Mercedes (neither do it for me, not sure why)
11. Prefer RWD or AWD to FWD
12. In my price range ($20,000 to $40,000: I spent $25,000 on the Audi)
13. Don't like white or silver, so not those colors (Audi is black on black)

What would you have picked? When I saw this car for sale, there was my unicorn.

I like S4s.. had a couple bi-Turbo from 2000... but the answer to your question here are a few examples from Autortrader. Im not implying that any are better than S4.. just the choices are plenty
2014 BMW 535,
2010 M5
2016 Cadi ATS
2011 M3
2014 Acura TL SH-AWD
2013 Infiniti G37
Million Audis
1/2 million Subarus

And on and on and on.... Cadi CTSV is well within the range too, but gas mileage is pretty crappy(17 avg)

 

[genna]

It's only available in an automatic. If I had to choose between a manual and more horsepower, I'll take the manual nearly every time.

Hard to find, but V's(first and second generations) standard transmission is manual. Current one is auto only.

Edit: It's the second gen that falls within your parameters though.

 

[arnoha]

I like S4s.. had a couple bi-Turbo from 2000... but the answer to your question here are a few examples from Autortrader. Im not implying that any are better than S4.. just the choices are plenty
2014 BMW 535,
2010 M5
2016 Cadi ATS
2011 M3
2014 Acura TL SH-AWD
2013 Infiniti G37
Million Audis
1/2 million Subarus

And on and on and on.... Cadi CTSV is well within the range too, but gas mileage is pretty crappy(17 avg)

Maybe they're more readily available on the East Coast. I was searching here in the SF Bay Area, where none of them were available during the search. Well, except for the Subies, which was off my list. The Cadillac cars, in particular, were utterly missing.

 

[arnoha]

I'm not so sure about that. The only 4cyl automatic transmission that Honda sells in the Accord, Civic and CRV is their CVT. They don't sell discrete gear automatics with 4cyl engines any more. Same with Toyota Corollas.

Yeah, they're hardly gone at the moment. They're pretty cheap to make, so my impression is that they will slowly be squeezed down market as the prices on the high-gear-count autos begin to come down.

 

[genna]

Maybe they're more readily available on the East Coast. I was searching here in the SF Bay Area, where none of them were available during the search. Well, except for the Subies, which was off my list. The Cadillac cars, in particular, were utterly missing.

Yeah. They are not common. Took me 3 months to find. 400 miles away

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

But, man, something is still lost in translation. I love the interactivity of the manual, of being connected to the car. It's not sensible and it's not logical. I love getting it right and learning something when I don't. I like never having the ask the questions, "Why's it doing that?" or "Why won't you DOWNSHIFT, M-F-ER?!" Dunno why this. I certainly don't wax nostalgic for the red knob in my plane. I'd be perfectly happy to see that anachronism disappear. But, then again, I do like the blue knob when it's available. My current plane doesn't have one and I miss it.

Amen, brother. Just purchased my 14th car and they've all had manual transmissions for the reasons you state (all rear-drive too, incidentally).

Automatic gearbox depicted below:

 

[asicer]

Yeah, they're hardly gone at the moment. They're pretty cheap to make, so my impression is that they will slowly be squeezed down market as the prices on the high-gear-count autos begin to come down.

I don't think so. The Japanese seem to be all-in on CVT (Mazda excepted). Europeans seem to go for robotic clutches. Americans are all over the map.

 

[RudyP]

Amen, brother. Just purchased my 14th car and they've all had manual transmissions for the reasons you state (all rear-drive too, incidentally).

Automatic gearbox depicted below:

View attachment 54493

Nice! I was about the same (15 ish manual cars and no autos over the years) but recently caved and bought a dual clutch auto car because it isn't made in manual. I absolutely hate the gearbox even though it is lauded as one of the best flappy paddle dual clutches out there. It sucks. Thankfully I have other cars with manuals still in the stable.

 

[genna]

Nice! I was about the same (15 ish manual cars and no autos over the years) but recently caved and bought a dual clutch auto car because it isn't made in manual. I absolutely hate the gearbox even though it is lauded as one of the best flappy paddle dual clutches out there. It sucks. Thankfully I have other cars with manuals still in the stable.

My primary car has always been MT. Something like 7-8 cars now. I did have 2 beater trucks over the years that were auto, but those had limited uses. MTs are getting nearly impossible to find in anything beyond a few base cheap cars. Especially on used market. Even if nominally they are available. Performance cars are practically all AT or DCT now. Even Porsches pretty much have to be ordered with MT(and not even all 911 models have that option). Same for BMW.

Last car I bought(CTS-V) took about 3 months to find and it was 8 hours away. All because of MT. Every time I look for a car I go through the same agonizing routine. "It would be so much easier to get an auto... They are faster(in cars I like), cheaper, easier to find, better in traffic, smoother..... This car is great, I love everything about it, but it's only available with AT" And then I go drive one. 5 minutes and I'm frustrated as hell. Some ATs are better, some are worse(more gears only makes that worse generally). DCT is awesome for track use. My wife's little DCT Hyundai is actually rather nicely setup. But in the end, the car does what it wants, not what *I* want. And I can only deal with that for so long.

Last year we bought my wife a new car. Hyundai Veloster. At the time, I asked her if she wanted Auto or MT. She didn't know how to drive MT but was always interested in learning. I said that I could teach her in a week or two. She was too afraid and opted for DCT Auto. I obliged. It is actually one of the nicer DCT setups I've encountered. Later that year I tried to teach her driving MT on my car a couple times. All resulted in frustrating failures. Heavy car, tricky clutch-- just too difficult to pickup from 0. So it looked like a good decision.

Fast forward to this year. We borrowed my friend's beat-up 5sp Mazda. 15 minutes on the parking lot and she was rowing through those gears like a champ. I was truly impressed and proud. A few days later, back in my car --not a single stall. We get home that day and she tells me that we should have bought MT for her. DUH!!

Oh well.... I'm keeping my car as long as I can

 

[arnoha]

My primary car has always been MT. Something like 7-8 cars now. I did have 2 beater trucks over the years that were auto, but those had limited uses. MTs are getting nearly impossible to find in anything beyond a few base cheap cars. Especially on used market. Even if nominally they are available. Performance cars are practically all AT or DCT now. Even Porsches pretty much have to be ordered with MT(and not even all 911 models have that option). Same for BMW.

Last car I bought(CTS-V) took about 3 months to find and it was 8 hours away. All because of MT. Every time I look for a car I go through the same agonizing routine. "It would be so much easier to get an auto... They are faster(in cars I like), cheaper, easier to find, better in traffic, smoother..... This car is great, I love everything about it, but it's only available with AT" And then I go drive one. 5 minutes and I'm frustrated as hell. Some ATs are better, some are worse(more gears only makes that worse generally). DCT is awesome for track use. My wife's little DCT Hyundai is actually rather nicely setup. But in the end, the car does what it wants, not what *I* want. And I can only deal with that for so long.

Last year we bought my wife a new car. Hyundai Veloster. At the time, I asked her if she wanted Auto or MT. She didn't know how to drive MT but was always interested in learning. I said that I could teach her in a week or two. She was too afraid and opted for DCT Auto. I obliged. It is actually one of the nicer DCT setups I've encountered. Later that year I tried to teach her driving MT on my car a couple times. All resulted in frustrating failures. Heavy car, tricky clutch-- just too difficult to pickup from 0. So it looked like a good decision.

Fast forward to this year. We borrowed my friend's beat-up 5sp Mazda. 15 minutes on the parking lot and she was rowing through those gears like a champ. I was truly impressed and proud. A few days later, back in my car --not a single stall. We get home that day and she tells me that we should have bought MT for her. DUH!!

Oh well.... I'm keeping my car as long as I can

Heh, similar, except the car buying decision ended up going the other way. I taught my wife to drive stick in my STI (though before I put in the lightweight flywheel and high-torque pressure plate). You'd think it would be tricky to learn in it, but it's actually very torquey and hard to stall (well, before the lightweight flywheel...). At the time, she drove an automatic Fit. I don't think I've ever run into a worse traditional auto. Gah...it never knew what gear to be in. It's the car where I was always frustrated and asking, "Why is it doing THAT?" Also gutless, which never helps. When we picked up the Mini Countryman S, it was custom ordered with the MT. It took nearly six months of searching, negotiating, and waiting to get the car. At that point, though, she was a convert, and felt the pain was worth it.

She loves the Mini. I like the Mini's transmission. I generally dislike the car otherwise, but the transmission isn't why (well, there is one reason). Those other reasons are what put me off modern BMWs. The turn signal stalk that doesn't stay put? The stereo that has several soft buttons with the label miles from the buttons? And those left-half, right-half, both halves buttons make no sense. And why is bluetooth phone standard, but bluetooth audio a $1000 option (which we didn't buy)? (The Audi doesn't have bluetooth audio, either. WTF? It has every other option checked! I need to find one of those stupid VW port adapters and still won't be well integrated.) Oh, and the one gripe on the transmission: Reverse is to the left and up. Typical German setup, and the Audi is that way, too. Not my favorite, but I can deal. What I find almost dangerous is that there is no lockout. Just a heavier detent. The Audi has the VW-style push-down-on-the-stick. Even my STI, where it's right and back, has a lift-the-ring style lockout. But the Mini, you just force over. There's definitely been a couple times where, without thinking, I slammed it into Reverse looking for First, usually attached to "oh damn, the light turned green, let's go". Never actually rolled that way, but did get a deserved honk once when the reverse lights lit up. So far, it's only been embarrassing, but I can see it being worse. Better now that I'm used to it, but still a surprising omission.

 

[CC268]

Thought you bought a Samsung S4...was gonna say that isn't much to brag about lol

 

[arnoha]

Thought you bought a Samsung S4...was gonna say that isn't much to brag about lol

Heh. Not really intended as a brag. I just figured this would be a good place to get advice on the car. I assume that most of the folks on here are a good bit wealthier than I am, and a $25,000 car would be pretty beige to most of them. The responses have mostly borne that out. It may be my unicorn, but to this crowd, it's hardly particularly special.

Now, should I buy the 195, that's a whole other story...

 

[CC268]

Heh. Not really intended as a brag. I just figured this would be a good place to get advice on the car. I assume that most of the folks on here are a good bit wealthier than I am, and a $25,000 car would be pretty beige to most of them. The responses have mostly borne that out. It may be my unicorn, but to this crowd, it's hardly particularly special.

Now, should I buy the 195, that's a whole other story...

I'm not a car guy so I can't help you there!

 

[genna]

Oh, and the one gripe on the transmission: Reverse is to the left and up. Typical German setup, and the Audi is that way, too. Not my favorite, but I can deal. What I find almost dangerous is that there is no lockout. Just a heavier detent. The Audi has the VW-style push-down-on-the-stick. Even my STI, where it's right and back, has a lift-the-ring style lockout. But the Mini, you just force over. There's definitely been a couple times where, without thinking, I slammed it into Reverse looking for First, usually attached to "oh damn, the light turned green, let's go". Never actually rolled that way, but did get a deserved honk once when the reverse lights lit up. So far, it's only been embarrassing, but I can see it being worse. Better now that I'm used to it, but still a surprising omission.

Yeah. My E39 M had the same thing. Almost backed into a car at the red light on the test drive. That would have been embarrassing. My buddy's standard CTS MT also had that setup and I ended up backing into a car at the light on it once. My CTSV has reverse where 5th gear is. No way to screw it up

 

[CC268]

If I'm being honest though...my Porsche GT3 is a great car but I prefer my McLaren a bit more

 

[EvilEagle]

I just brought home a 2014 S7. It's the first luxury/sport car I've owned. I've been a truck/Jeep guy but I'm tired of getting beat up driving to work. So far this thing rocks.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

Oh, and the one gripe on the transmission: Reverse is to the left and up. Typical German setup, and the Audi is that way, too. Not my favorite, but I can deal. What I find almost dangerous is that there is no lockout. Just a heavier detent. The Audi has the VW-style push-down-on-the-stick. Even my STI, where it's right and back, has a lift-the-ring style lockout. But the Mini, you just force over. There's definitely been a couple times where, without thinking, I slammed it into Reverse looking for First, usually attached to "oh damn, the light turned green, let's go". Never actually rolled that way, but did get a deserved honk once when the reverse lights lit up. So far, it's only been embarrassing, but I can see it being worse. Better now that I'm used to it, but still a surprising omission.

Yeah, the left-and-up reverse can be disconcerting initially, but I'm on my third BMW and it's so completely second-nature by now. Had a couple of 914s with the dogleg 1st gear...it's where 2nd normally is, and reverse occupies the normal 1st gear position. It was made easier when I dropped a 5.7-liter LS1 in it...so much torque that 2nd easily became 1st, and you're back to a standard H-pattern, albeit with four speeds instead of five. 315 bhp isn't a lot by modern standards, but it only weighed 2380 lb. with a full tank!

 

[arnoha]

Yeah, the left-and-up reverse can be disconcerting initially, but I'm on my third BMW and it's so completely second-nature by now. Had a couple of 914s with the dogleg 1st gear...it's where 2nd normally is, and reverse occupies the normal 1st gear position. It was made easier when I dropped a 5.7-liter LS1 in it...so much torque that 2nd easily became 1st, and you're back to a standard H-pattern, albeit with four speeds instead of five. 315 bhp isn't a lot by modern standards, but it only weighed 2380 lb. with a full tank!

Yikes. That thing would be far faster than the car I just bought. And extra 30 HP does not make up for 1400 extra pounds. The Audi is definitely a porker. How that little car weighs over 3800 lbs., I have no idea. The previous owner packed this one with every feature, so I'm sure it's closer to two tons than that. Despite having several HP more than my STI, and STI being pretty weighty, too, the STI is a good bit quicker. That 914 must move.

Also: How in hell did you fit an LS1 into a 914? The thing was designed around a 2L flat 4! The LS1 is certainly short, so that's not an issue, but the length and width would be a real problem. The cylinders are bigger and it's two cylinders longer than it as well. The 914 also had a pretty unusual transmission layout; what would you put in there that would handle that that was also the right layout?

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

Yeah, the V-8 914 was a monster. Unfortunately, I sold it to help finance the Lycoming IO-320 that I put in my RV-9A. Pulled as hard in 4th as it did in 1st! I had to fit 225-section R-comp tires (Toyo Proxes RA1s) to get it to hook up...which it did quite well, being so light and having a significant chunk of weight over the driving wheels.

The 914's such a wide car that access to the sides of the engine (for sparkplug changing, removing exhaust manifolds, etc.) is so much better than the donor Camaro it came out of. For the 914 install, the intake manifold is flipped around 180 degrees (crazy, but it's designed to work that way), a hole is made in the rear trunk bulkhead, and the throttle body/air filter protrude into the trunk...one big airbox! Transaxle is Porsche Type 901, used for both 911 and 914, so stouter than you might think. I fitted taller 4th and 5th ratios for more relaxed freeway cruising. Kevlar clutch is necessary to transmit the torque.

The fun part was that it was something of a sleeper...the V-8 was well muffled, and there was only a single (albeit large-bore) exhaust tip visible exiting the valance panel in the stock location. But it was dual, the other tip being a hidden dump pipe.

Modern cars are so heavy. Just bought a BMW M240i (manual, rwd) that weighs in at 3500 lb.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

A couple more pics. Really hard to find those ATS 15x7 wheels...the 15x5.5s in that style are pretty common though. I did a full resto on the suspension with new bushings throughout,a 5-lug conversion with 911 front suspension and brakes, and 930 CV joints. It was a good starter project before I took on building the RV!

 

[Jimmy cooper]

I've owned a 2007 Porsche Carrera S, which had main bearing problems in many which was not backed up by Porsche so I sold it in good condition. I also leased a Porsche Cayman later , brand new, 2014 base model. (Important to remember that this model has more horsepower than many of the old 911s) . It also had a pdk which, once you got used to it , was just fantastic to drive, downshift, etc. which brings us to the 195 Cessna I owned in the 80s. I had over 2000 taildragger hours at the time, including 450 hours in my stearman. The 195 is not for someone who " has been signed off" to fly a taildragger! It has a touchy gear set up and the gimbal gear, if not removed as worn out or useless, is not for beginners. ( If you ground loop a 195, not hard to do in a decent cross wind, ) it will probably collapse the gear, ruin the gear case and cause an engine tear down when the prop hits. Hard to see out of , You must be on top of a 195 at all times especially on landing. They are expensive to work on and hard to find mechanics who know how to spot trouble on them. Once in the air they fly very well and are very comfortable. I would not buy another one and sold mine and bought a Cessna 180 which was, along with a Mooney , my 2 favorite airplanes to fly overall. I only have a little over 4000 hours total which is not a lot but 3000 or more is in taildraggers . I never raced cars but drove about 45000 miles a year while working which gave me some driving experience. My favorite work car was a 1999 BMW 528i which I drove for 140000 miles without a problem but they have cheapened this size car. It's not the same.

 

[Zeldman]

I miss my '70 Chevy C-10. 6 Cyl, granny 4 speed, heater, 2-65 air conditioner, no power anything. Not even a radio. In 1974 I paid $707.00 for it and it had only 48,000 miles.

I drove that thing for 18 years all over Texas.

 

[arnoha]

Modern cars are so heavy. Just bought a BMW M240i (manual, rwd) that weighs in at 3500 lb.

That 914 is a thing of beauty. Nicely done. You never had trouble with the low-lying, exposed rubber coolant hoses across the bottom?

I have a 2000 Toyota Tacoma. It's the last of a previous generation of vehicles. The doors are thin, the features are little, it weighs fairly little for a truck (~3000 lbs.) that it can haul a good load (~1500 lbs). The doors in particular; compare to any modern car, where the doors are like bank vault doors, so thick. What the hell is in there? It's just a door!

You hear? This is the last generation of manual 2-series. BMW cut them out for the next gen. Congrats on the M240i! I hear it's a beautifully balanced car. If I didn't need the larger size of four doors for two car seats, that would have been on my short list.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

Thanks for the compliment! Yeah, the coolant hose routing is not the most elegant solution, but I never had any issues with it. Some guys have run them inside the unit body's longitudinals, and run them up front at the base of the front wheel arches. I really agonized over this. Maybe a better solution would be oval-section aluminum tubing, with round transition sections to accept the hoses, to give a little more ground clearance. You could run a couple of skid rails alongside to protect against the worst-case-scenario speed bump!

Doors are getting heavy! I guess a lot of it is more and more stringent side impact standards, so more structure/larger anti-intrusion beams are required. The bar is a lot higher to reduce interior noise, so more acoustic insulation and noise-isolating interior trim might cause some of it. Side airbags too, etc.

Yes, I heard about the manual on the 2 Series getting nixed. So glad I got one of the last manuals. I think they'll be available though the current iteration (which just had a refresh for 2018), but probably out for the next generation. Loving it so far...I've always like the big motor/small chassis cars. For me, the M2 was too much visually and a little too firm for a daily driver. The M240i nearly matches it in a straight line and still can carve up a transition road well, and has decent ride quality in Comfort mode for those long freeway trips.

S4 is a great car. I spent quite a bit of time in one (was in the car mag biz in a former life) and it was fitted with the torque-vectoring rear diff. Pretty slick setup. It was a manual trans too, which had to be replaced at about 15K miles due to the lever popping out of gear when reversing...I hope yours doesn't have this issue. Love the sound and power delivery of that supercharged 6....so much better than its turbo predecessor. And I love the attention Audi pays to underhood detailing...it's an engine that you'd actually want to show off to your neighbors. My BMW has the dreaded plastic dress panel...

 

[genna]

....

You hear? This is the last generation of manual 2-series. BMW cut them out for the next gen. Congrats on the M240i! I hear it's a beautifully balanced car. If I didn't need the larger size of four doors for two car seats, that would have been on my short list.

Maybe...

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/bmw-2-series-manual-lost-translation/

Maybe even likely, but not done deal just yet.