[NA] Best cut for a steak?

FormerHangie said:
I grill all the time. I almost never barbecue. Grilling is cooking with direct high heat. Barbecuing is cooking with slow, moist heat and smoke. You wouldn't barbecue a steak, and you wouldn't grill a Boston butt.

That's like confusing the mixture with the prop lever. Bad things happen when you confuse them. o_O
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I'm sticking with my phraseology until you pry it from my cold, dead throat.
 
We had someone over who insisted on medium steak. :(
Cooked right, even medium can be edible, notice there's no grey overcooked meat just below the surface. Not my favorite way to eat it though. Went well with decent red.

Steak by , on Flickr
 
:p
mtuomi said:
A few huge mistakes there, apart from those, pretty solid recipe.

Flip as often as you can, avoid grill marks. Short cook time has nothing to do with juiciness, and use a meat thermometer to know when your steak is done right.

Again, everyone needs to read that Serious Eats article. It debunks a lot of steak myths (such as the old "flip only once"). Amazingribs has a few good articles too.

Lots of old wives tales in steak - you'll improve your steak game 500x when you understand the science behind it.
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If you're going to avoid char marks, why not just cook it in an oven? I just flip once because how fast it cooks to a medium rare with that much heat, if I was cooking over lower heat I probably would flip multiple times to avoid burning the outside. Notice I didn't say the sear traps the juices, which is wrong. I guess the other side of multi-flipping that keeps me from doing it is in the fall/winter there are huge temp fluctuations from repeatedly opening the grill. Since it is usually very dry in the winter, the moist air in the grill is replaced with dry air which then allows more moisture to evaporate out of the meat; one of the reasons a lot of places have super dry bbq in the winter, but good bbq in the summer. If I wanted make a truly perfect steak, I would slow cook the steak like smoking a brisket (grill temp 230 to 250) until center hits 120-125 degrees and then sear it real quick keeping the center between 130 to 145 depending on how you like it cooked, but that takes an hour or more. I have only done that method once; if you have guest start cooking before they show up because they will not wait that long. For me I did not see a enough difference between the slow cook with end sear which is supposed to be the juiciest way versus my 6 minute stupid high heat method to make the extra time worth it. If I had a super thick cut or trying to cook past medium rare I recommend the low heat method to keep from drying the steak out. I agree, using a thermometer is important. I use to every time I cooked for 20 years, I still do if it is not my normal cut that I am use to cooking or someone request something other than medium-rare or medium and I always use one for chicken or pork.

One thing have realized is there is a lot of variables in cooking especially over a wood fire (fire temp, air temp, humidity, construct of the meat, type of cut, meat temp, wind, altitude, rub mixture ratio, rub availability) and I probably don't cook even close to exactly the same way every time as long as the finished product is as close to what people expect from me, I am good.

Once had a group of guys over, they each brought their own steak and I cooked. The critiques while cooking were brutal (I asked for trouble by letting a bunch of guys watch): You're starting the grill wrong, its too hot, that's too much seasoning, aren't you going to season the other side, that was too short of time. After eating, it was all praise.

Now french fries, there is only one correct way to cook those....:p
 
jaymark6655 said:
:p

If you're going to avoid char marks, why not just cook it in an oven? I just flip once because how fast it cooks to a medium rare with that much heat, if I was cooking over lower heat I probably would flip multiple times to avoid burning the outside. Notice I didn't say the sear traps the juices, which is wrong. I guess the other side of multi-flipping that keeps me from doing it is in the fall/winter there are huge temp fluctuations from repeatedly opening the grill. Since it is usually very dry in the winter, the moist air in the grill is replaced with dry air which then allows more moisture to evaporate out of the meat; one of the reasons a lot of places have super dry bbq in the winter, but good bbq in the summer. If I wanted make a truly perfect steak, I would slow cook the steak like smoking a brisket (grill temp 230 to 250) until center hits 120-125 degrees and then sear it real quick keeping the center between 130 to 145 depending on how you like it cooked, but that takes an hour or more. I have only done that method once; if you have guest start cooking before they show up because they will not wait that long. For me I did not see a enough difference between the slow cook with end sear which is supposed to be the juiciest way versus my 6 minute stupid high heat method to make the extra time worth it. If I had a super thick cut or trying to cook past medium rare I recommend the low heat method to keep from drying the steak out. I agree, using a thermometer is important. I use to every time I cooked for 20 years, I still do if it is not my normal cut that I am use to cooking or someone request something other than medium-rare or medium and I always use one for chicken or pork.

One thing have realized is there is a lot of variables in cooking especially over a wood fire (fire temp, air temp, humidity, construct of the meat, type of cut, meat temp, wind, altitude, rub mixture ratio, rub availability) and I probably don't cook even close to exactly the same way every time as long as the finished product is as close to what people expect from me, I am good.

Once had a group of guys over, they each brought their own steak and I cooked. The critiques while cooking were brutal (I asked for trouble by letting a bunch of guys watch): You're starting the grill wrong, its too hot, that's too much seasoning, aren't you going to season the other side, that was too short of time. After eating, it was all praise.

Now french fries, there is only one correct way to cook those....:p
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At the risk of bringing Granny's underwear in to the discussion, it just depends. The point of flipping often is not to avoid char marks, but to avoid excessive charring of the meat on a thick cut like a Tri Tip. Tri Tip is one of those cuts that you could slow cook over indirect heat if you want, but direct grilling seems to give it a better taste. Ideally, I'd like a small rotisserie in there. Especially if I was doing a whole chicken*.

*Apologies in advance for bringing chicken in to a steak thread
 
Damn @mtuomi, next time I'm out there for recurrent I'm gonna swing by your place for a steak! And don't worry, I'm a medium rare guy. :)
 
I've been sous vide-ing steaks for a while now. You get it to a uniform medium rare and a quick sear in a cast iron pan (works better than a grill in my opinion) finishes it off.
 
A little beef knowledge - a lot of these cuts are the same thing. There are slight differences on what parts of the muscle the beef comes from. For example, ribeye can come from anywhere along the rib section, but prime rib only comes from the rear 2/3 of the ribs - the best or prime section because the muscle isn't used as much.

Standing rib roast, prime rib, "tomahawk" chop and ribeye are all pretty much the same piece of meat, just cut differently. If you take a rib roast and carve away the bones, you get prime rib. If you take a rib roast and cut it thick, you get the tomahawk chop. If you take a rib roast, cut the ribs away, then slice the roast, you get ribeye. BTW, save the rib bones and cook them slow in the oven.
Standing Rib Roast - ribs = prime rib + beef ribs
Standing Rib Roast sliced = tomahawk chop
Standing Rib Roast - ribs, then sliced = ribeye + beef ribs

Similar with T-bone, porterhouse, filet, new york strip and tenderloin. The porterhouse has the t shaped bone with the tenderloin on one side and the top loin on the other. Remove the tenderloin and a porterhouse becomes a t-bone. If you take the whole tenderloin and roast it, you get Chateaubriand. If you cut the tenderloin into 2" thick or so discs, you get the filet. If you remove the other side of the porterhouse too, you get a top loin, when sliced becomes a new york strip.
Porterhouse - tenderloin = tbone. Sometimes a t-bone is the forward end of the loin where the tenderloin doesn't go
Porterhouse with both sides cut off = tenderloin + top loin
Tenderloin sliced = filet. Tenderloin roasted whole = Chateaubriand.
Top loin sliced = new york strip. If you have a bone in new york strip, what you have is the center bone from the porterhouse/t-bone.

I think I have all that right, it's been a while since I've looked it up and I wrote this from memory. I'm sure someone will correct it if not.

I prefer the ribeye, medium rare. Either fries or baked potato are acceptable.
 
bflynn said:
A little beef knowledge - a lot of these cuts are the same thing. There are slight differences on what parts of the muscle the beef comes from. For example, ribeye can come from anywhere along the rib section, but prime rib only comes from the rear 2/3 of the ribs - the best or prime section because the muscle isn't used as much.

Standing rib roast, prime rib, "tomahawk" chop and ribeye are all pretty much the same piece of meat, just cut differently. If you take a rib roast and carve away the bones, you get prime rib. If you take a rib roast and cut it thick, you get the tomahawk chop. If you take a rib roast, cut the ribs away, then slice the roast, you get ribeye. BTW, save the rib bones and cook them slow in the oven.
Standing Rib Roast - ribs = prime rib + beef ribs
Standing Rib Roast sliced = tomahawk chop
Standing Rib Roast - ribs, then sliced = ribeye + beef ribs

Similar with T-bone, porterhouse, filet, new york strip and tenderloin. The porterhouse has the t shaped bone with the tenderloin on one side and the top loin on the other. Remove the tenderloin and a porterhouse becomes a t-bone. If you take the whole tenderloin and roast it, you get Chateaubriand. If you cut the tenderloin into 2" thick or so discs, you get the filet. If you remove the other side of the porterhouse too, you get a top loin, when sliced becomes a new york strip.
Porterhouse - tenderloin = tbone. Sometimes a t-bone is the forward end of the loin where the tenderloin doesn't go
Porterhouse with both sides cut off = tenderloin + top loin
Tenderloin sliced = filet. Tenderloin roasted whole = Chateaubriand.
Top loin sliced = new york strip. If you have a bone in new york strip, what you have is the center bone from the porterhouse/t-bone.

I think I have all that right, it's been a while since I've looked it up and I wrote this from memory. I'm sure someone will correct it if not.

I prefer the ribeye, medium rare. Either fries or baked potato are acceptable.
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Good post. If you want to go real Steak Hi-Fi, you start choosing the Ribeye cuts with most amount of spinalis dorsi-muscle (or the Ribeye cap). That is usually considered the tastiest part of the steer.
The common thing is that the "high end" cuts we use for steak are from the "back" of the cow, near the spine and ribs - that part of the steer does the least amount of work, which means the muscles aren't very strong. There's also plenty of intramuscular fat on well fed cows, and hardly any tendons and other parts that aren't suitable for fast cooking.
 
Medium Ribeye is my favorite. However, I buy NY Strip more often because it's very nearly as good and is cheaper. If I'm cooking for more than me and my wife, you're getting sirloin because I'm a cheapskate ;)
 
OkieFlyer said:
Medium Ribeye is my favorite. However, I buy NY Strip more often because it's very nearly as good and is cheaper. If I'm cooking for more than me and my wife, you're getting sirloin because I'm a cheapskate ;)
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Do you have any friends left?

Haha jk - to be fair, sirloin _CAN_ be good, but it has to be very high grade sirloin. Thankfully even Wagyu sirloin is less than $20/lbs.
 
bflynn said:
Similar with T-bone, porterhouse, filet, new york strip and tenderloin. The porterhouse has the t shaped bone with the tenderloin on one side and the top loin on the other. Remove the tenderloin and a porterhouse becomes a t-bone.
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No. A porterhouse without the filet is a new york strip with bone stuck to it. Oddly enough some even sell it as a "bone-in new york strip."

Porterhouse is a T-bone with a federally regulated amount of tenderloin present.
 
As much as I love steaks, ribeye, NY strip, even sirloin, my go to is tri tip. I don't understand why it is not more popular than it is outside of California. As with any semi-tough cuts, a key factor is in how you slice it. A tri tip is basically two triangles of muscle joined together. You cut those triangles apart, then you slice both across the grain. That makes the difference between tender and chewy. Same goes with flank steak. It can be a chewy cut if you slice it right it's quite tender.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I do agree with you that the 'only flip once' rule does not apply to anything in the grill aside from burgers (but it does apply to burgers.) I used to try to achieve that goal with thick steaks and tri tip and just got charred messes on the outside. Those were back in the immature bbq days.

Doing your first BBQ is like obtaining your private certificate. It's a license to learn.
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I've never observed the "only flip once" rule, and there are three reasons why. First, leaving the steak on one side too long melts too much of the fat on the edges of the steak, and causes flare ups. Second, I'm hoping by partially melting the marbling and flipping the steak, I 'm getting some internal basting action. And thirdly, we always use a dry rub on our steaks, and if you leave it on one side too long, it chars the rub, which makes it bitter.

We're having strip steaks tonight, and it's time for me to get them ready for the grill, so you'll have to excuse me, I have to go rub my meat.
 
Medium Rare HANGER STEAK

I have friends that had never heard of a hanger steak until I told them about it. It’s also known as the butcher’s cut. If you haven’t had one, you’re missing out!
 
Aviator305 said:
Medium Rare HANGER STEAK

I have friends that had never heard of a hanger steak until I told them about it. It’s also known as the butcher’s cut. If you haven’t had one, you’re missing out!
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I believe it is 'hangar' steak. Flank steak. I like it too. Cut it in thin strips cross grain for maximum tenderness. Best done no more than medium rare.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I believe it is 'hangar' steak. Flank steak. I like it too. Cut it in thin strips cross grain for maximum tenderness. Best done no more than medium rare.
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I wish it were spelled ‘hangAr’ steak, because life would even more sense, but it seems to be spelled as I originally posted it, with an ‘e.’ Also, different than flank steak, hanger steak comes from the muscles supporting the diaphragm. Check this out: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/stop-ordering-the-hanger-steak_us_59775fabe4b0e201d57867e8
 
It is hanger steak with an E. It "hangs" next to the diaphragm, hence the name. Also known as "onglet", butcher's steak etc.
Great cut! Often prepared horribly wrong though. Nothing worse than a medium-well hanger steak.
 
Damn, last time I Googled it I guess I got 'hangar.' Now I'm getting both.
 
Ahh, orange crackers. Made prestale at the bakery so they won't get any worse hanging around the vending machines.
 
Flank steak well done
 
Can’t you get sick from rare/medium rare steak?
 
CC268 said:
Can’t you get sick from rare/medium rare steak?
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No. The harmful bacteria on solid muscles (such as steaks) only hangs out at the surface. The surface of a steak is cooked to way above pasteurization temps even when the interior temperature is in the rare region. Ground meats are different, because the bacteria on the surface gets mixed internally in the grounding process.
 
mtuomi said:
No. The harmful bacteria on solid muscles (such as steaks) only hangs out at the surface. The surface of a steak is cooked to way above pasteurization temps even when the interior temperature is in the rare region. Ground meats are different, because the bacteria on the surface gets mixed internally in the grounding process.
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Ahh interesting thanks for sharing. So what’s so great about rare steak?
 
Difference between beef and poultry is exactly that........the bad stuff can live inside the tissue on poultry, hence why you cook chicken to an appropriate internal temp (165 for white meat, though I tend to cheat and bring it out at about 155, with it settling to a juicy 160).

As for rare, I have started to like rare a little less over time with more marbled cuts.....it is still my go to temp with something like tenderloin/filets mignon. With those cuts, there just isn't enough fat in the muscle to keep it tender if you cook much more than rare. With something like a ribeye or NY, that is heavily marbled, I prefer med rare......still a bit red in the middle, but if you cook it a bit beyond rare, you actually get a little better flavor and texture in my opinion. I will not cook those cuts any more than that for the same reasons as listed with tenderloin......they will get too tough if taken to medium or beyond. I'm sure medium or well done is what some people like, but by then, it has lost most of its flavor and texture, and is just a tough mixture of rubber and gristle IMO.
 
35 AoA said:
Difference between beef and poultry is exactly that........the bad stuff can live inside the tissue on poultry, hence why you cook chicken to an appropriate internal temp (165 for white meat, though I tend to cheat and bring it out at about 155, with it settling to a juicy 160).

As for rare, I have started to like rare a little less over time with more marbled cuts.....it is still my go to temp with something like tenderloin/filets mignon. With those cuts, there just isn't enough fat in the muscle to keep it tender if you cook much more than rare. With something like a ribeye or NY, that is heavily marbled, I prefer med rare......still a bit red in the middle, but if you cook it a bit beyond rare, you actually get a little better flavor and texture in my opinion. I will not cook those cuts any more than that for the same reasons as listed with tenderloin......they will get too tough if taken to medium or beyond. I'm sure medium or well done is what some people like, but by then, it has lost most of its flavor and texture, and is just a tough mixture of rubber and gristle IMO.
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That's a good point to make - "medium rare" is not an universal panacea for meat even though it does work most of the time. A good cook looks at the piece of meat and decides, if it should be in the "rare" or the "medium" end of the medium rare spectrum. Well marbled beef needs that fat rendered for full mouth-melting experience. Too rare is actually a bit tough on the high end cuts.

Tenderloin has hardly any marbling so it should be cooked closer to rare. A ribeye cap should be closer to medium to melt all that intramuscular fat.
Yum.
 
Hit it on the head mtoumi......there is a decidedly tough element to fatty cuts being undercooked, that is unrelated to the otherwise tender/juicy texture of the lean portion of the meat. Such is why it can be so difficult to properly cook a really thick cut like that, such as a tomahawk (or I guess "French"....probably more correctly, "frenched") ribeye. I've nailed it a couple times out of maybe a half dozen or so, with a lot of care and multiple types of heat, but I think that cut is really made for sous vide (or a professional chef). It's a great parlor trick, and definitely makes a mean steak salad for 2, but it is definitely an undertaking that you don't just lightly toss onto a hot grill and forget about.

As an aside, I tried my hand at a whole "peri peri" chicken tonight. It was awesome. Tried out the whole spatchcock/butterfly method along with it, and it worked great. Nice golden crust from the grill, then finished off in the oven for 30 mins at 350 for a perfect char by the end. Perfectly cooked white and dark meat, simultaneously. Fantastic flavor too. I basically dry brined the bird for about 24 hours in the fridge until the skin was completely dry, and then it sat in the chili/vinegar/oil/citrus rub for another 5-6, bring to room temp for an hour, then right onto the grill. In hindsight, I'm not sure if the brine before had any effect overall, since there was a vinegar based rub applied afterwards that certainly rehydrated the skin and tenderized the meat, but ultimately, the skin came out super crisp, and the meat was exceptionally juicy. I'd highly recommend, probably the best preparation of a whole bird I've ever tried.
 
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CC268 said:
Ahh interesting thanks for sharing. So what’s so great about rare steak?
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The flavor, texture and juiciness. When done right, finished with the right (Maldon) finishing salt, it's amazing.

If you ever find yourself in TX let me know. I'll do the cooking, you bring the beer.
 
mtuomi said:
The flavor, texture and juiciness. When done right, finished with the right (Maldon) finishing salt, it's amazing.

If you ever find yourself in TX let me know. I'll do the cooking, you bring the beer.
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What part of TX?
:stirpot:

Wait, I can read, Dallas. Hhhmmmm...
 
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mtuomi said:
The flavor, texture and juiciness. When done right, finished with the right (Maldon) finishing salt, it's amazing.

If you ever find yourself in TX let me know. I'll do the cooking, you bring the beer.
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Hmmmm.... I’ll be in Dallas (Grand Prairie, actually) in a few weeks.
 
CC268 said:
Can’t you get sick from rare/medium rare steak?
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Unlikely. Most of the contaminants are on the surface which are pretty rapidly dispatched with even mediocre attempts at browning the meat.
Ground meat (anything from steak tartar to burgers) are something you need to be more careful with. I usually err on the more done side of such things (and only get steak tartar from places that prepare with good sanitary procedures).
 
mtuomi said:
The flavor, texture and juiciness. When done right, finished with the right (Maldon) finishing salt, it's amazing.

If you ever find yourself in TX let me know. I'll do the cooking, you bring the beer.
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My brother lives in Burleson which is a suburb of Dallas. I like Texas...good place.
 
CC268 said:
Can’t you get sick from rare/medium rare steak?
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On the flip side, when someone cooks a steak beyond medium rare, it makes *me* sick. :)
 
35 AoA said:
As an aside, I tried my hand at a whole "peri peri" chicken tonight. It was awesome. Tried out the whole spatchcock/butterfly method along with it, and it worked great. Nice golden crust from the grill, then finished off in the oven for 30 mins at 350 for a perfect char by the end. Perfectly cooked white and dark meat, simultaneously. Fantastic flavor too. I basically dry brined the bird for about 24 hours in the fridge until the skin was completely dry, and then it sat in the chili/vinegar/oil/citrus rub for another 5-6, bring to room temp for an hour, then right onto the grill. In hindsight, I'm not sure if the brine before had any effect overall, since there was a vinegar based rub applied afterwards that certainly rehydrated the skin and tenderized the meat, but ultimately, the skin came out super crisp, and the meat was exceptionally juicy. I'd highly recommend, probably the best preparation of a whole bird I've ever tried.
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That's a great way to do it. A few pointers that might make it even better, though would be to roast first and sear last and use the grill for both. It does take a bit of skill regulating the temperature of the grill,though. Set up a 2 level fire, roast it on the cool side and temp it with an instant read thermometer. A few wood chips can add a little flavor during the roasting period, too. Once it's done on the inside, pull it off and kick up the fire (open the vents if using charcoal, crank up the burners if using gas). While the fire is heating up, the bird is resting and by the time the grill is ready for searing the juices would have redistributed thereby reducing the chances for dry meat. Also, the skin should have released enough moisture and rendered enough fat during the roasting period that it should get extra crispy during the sear.
 
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