Mosaic: Certified planes who qualify. What actually changes?

Domenick

Domenick

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Domenick
I have the 775 page Mosaic announcement published in the Federal Register. I confess, I am unlikely to read it.

I own a certified Piper Warrior II, PA-28-161. How does my plane, falling under Mosaic, change my life?
 
You can exercise sport pilot privileges in it, including flying with a DL medical.

Sport pilot privileges marginally improved.

Those who are already a private pilot, it probably doesn't do anything unless you only fly VFR during the day.
 
Domenic, "say it isn't so!" Only 717 pages! LOL.
If you max stall speed clean is listed at 59 kts or less, you're okay. Your's IIRC is 56(should be in section 5 of the POH)

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Cherokee's in annual this week, so I spent some time at the shop. The two A&P/IAs and I decided that for the cherokee, nothing changes, it's still Part CAR 23 compliance. A sport pilot is legally allowed to fly it (over my dead body!) after practical test to add Airplane. Still no experimental avionics, still subject to IA annual inspection (Part 43), still certified under Type Certificate.
 
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I don’t have a POH (1960 model aircraft) and whatever that little document I do have doesn’t really have a stall speed listed, it just says inside the document that your stall speed is around 64 mph dirty and to add about 5 mph when clean. It literally says “about 5 mph”. Converting this to knots, if I add exactly 5 mph, my stall speed is 0.9 knots to high. What a bummer. I don’t even think my plane stalls at 69 mph in the first place.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I don’t have a POH (1960 model aircraft) and whatever that little document I do have doesn’t really have a stall speed listed, it just says inside the document that your stall speed is around 64 mph dirty and to add about 5 mph when clean. It literally says “about 5 mph”. Converting this to knots, if I add exactly 5 mph, my stall speed is 0.9 knots to high. What a bummer. I don’t even think my plane stalls at 69 mph in the first place.
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IAS or CAS?
 
murphey said:
Cherokee's in annual this week, so I spent some time at the shop. The two A&P/IAs and I decided that for the cherokee, nothing changes, it's still Part 23 compliance. A sport pilot is legally allowed to fly it (over my dead body!) after practical test to add Airplane. Still no experimental avionics, still subject to IA annual inspection (Part 43), still certified under Type Certificate.
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PA28's are CAR3 aircraft, not Part 23.
 
When people refer to DL, does that still mean Basic Med or no/med?

Asking from a PPL perspective, not Sport Pilot, if that makes sense.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
When people refer to DL, does that still mean Basic Med or no/med?

Asking from a PPL perspective, not Sport Pilot, if that makes sense.
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To exercise Private Pilot privileges or better, you still need Basic Med or better. Driver’s License only for Sport Pilot privileges (and no medical denial, etc.)
 
I think the short answer to @Domenick 's question is basically nothing for him, assuming you are a PP with a medical or BM.

If you are a sport pilot, you now have more planes potentially available to fly, subject to the SP limitations; 1 passenger, day VFR etc. (with I think some ways to expand that with additional sign offs)

What's unclear to me is if you can "downgrade" from PP to SP and then fly without a medical subject to SP limits
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
When people refer to DL, does that still mean Basic Med or no/med?

Asking from a PPL perspective, not Sport Pilot, if that makes sense.
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See my additional context below.
MauleSkinner said:
To exercise Private Pilot privileges or better, you still need Basic Med or better. Driver’s License only for Sport Pilot privileges (and no medical denial, etc.)
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BasicMed does require a valid driver’s license (14 CFR 61.23(c), 61.113(i)).
 
MonkeyClaw said:
Seems to me that if you are a PP and your medical expires, you could still fly as an SP with your DL until you get your medical renewed.
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Yes, respecting the Sport Pilot limitations or, with BasicMed, with PP privileges and BasicMed limitations.
 
Domenick said:
I have the 775 page Mosaic announcement published in the Federal Register. I confess, I am unlikely to read it.
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The actual new regs are the last 17 pages. The rest is boilerplate, discussion of comments, fiscal analysis, etcm
Hang 4 said:
What's unclear to me is if you can "downgrade" from PP to SP and then fly without a medical subject to SP limits
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Yes. That has always been the case since SP was passed.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Hey, does that mean I can fly a Boeing under Light Sport? :biggrin:
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Yes, this one:

2560px-Boeing_PT-17-BW_Kaydet_‘23_-_23_-_U.S.Navy’_%28N7058Q%29_%2850906088841%29.jpg
 
pfarber said:
pre 1965 the TCDS used indicated airspeeds.

Under CAR 3.84, the regulation states:
"Stalling speeds shall be determined by flight test and shall be determined in terms of indicated airspeed."

post 1965 (FARs 23) Calibrated airspeeds were required.
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So based on the new MOSAIC ruling, for planes built pre 1965, would they simply assume IAS = CAS and therefore, my plane's stall speed is 0.9 knots too high for it to qualify? Not that it matters to be honest, I have a PPL with basic med and even could get a third class with no issues if I wanted to but just good to know I guess.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
So based on the new MOSAIC ruling, for planes built pre 1965, would they simply assume IAS = CAS and therefore, my plane's stall speed is 0.9 knots too high for it to qualify? Not that it matters to be honest, I have a PPL with basic med and even could get a third class with no issues if I wanted to but just good to know I guess.
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No, it means the published stall speeds are IAS, and if you have a chart you can convert them to find out for sure.
 
When Sport Pilot came out, the FAA issued a list of production-type airplanes that qualified. I suspect they'll need to do the same thing for the MOSAIC airplanes....

Ron Wanttaja
 
MauleSkinner said:
I would assume so, but I’m not a Comanche guy.
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I checked the POH of later models. The gross weight is higher on those later models and therefore the stall speed is listed much higher than on my model. Also, the IAS -> CAS chart starts at 80 mph in those POHs so I guess below 80 mph it's IAS = CAS.
 
Domenick said:
I own a certified Piper Warrior II, PA-28-161. How does my plane, falling under Mosaic, change my life?
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It means that you can now sell your plane to interested parties who only qualify for SP privileges/medical and previously would not have been able to wave cash in your direction. Other than that? Nothing, as far as I can tell.
 
Domenick said:
I have the 775 page Mosaic announcement published in the Federal Register. I confess, I am unlikely to read it.

I own a certified Piper Warrior II, PA-28-161. How does my plane, falling under Mosaic, change my life?
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It doesn't, unless your life changes.

Let's say you're happily flying your Warrior on Basic Med. Then, for example, you develop a cardiac problem and need treatment. The treatment works great, your world-renowned cardiologist gives you a clean bill of health, clears you to run marathons and date 25-year-olds, etc. The FAA knows better than your own doc who treated you, though. Before they'll let you go back to flying with Basic Med, you have to jump through the FAA hoops and get an SI, and if you have some other annoyance (like sleep apnea, for instance), you'll end up needing an SI for that, too. With luck, after 12-18 months, many unneccessary tests, much unwarranted expense, and lots of anxiety, you might have a medical again. Or you might not.

With MOSAIC, you can avoid OKC medical roulette and keep right on flying your Warrior. You'll have SP limitations (one passenger max, daytime VFR only), but that might be okay for you and you might appreciate staying out of the FAA medical spin cycle.
 
:yeahthat:

Or, you have your medical exam scheduled a week before your old one expires and your doctor gets sick so you have to cancel, and the next available date is a month later. Or you just forget to renew. You can fly under SP in the meanwhile (or forever).
 
Half Fast said:
It doesn't, unless your life changes.

Let's say you're happily flying your Warrior on Basic Med. Then, for example, you develop a cardiac problem and need treatment. The treatment works great, your world-renowned cardiologist gives you a clean bill of health, clears you to run marathons and date 25-year-olds, etc. The FAA knows better than your own doc who treated you, though. Before they'll let you go back to flying with Basic Med, you have to jump through the FAA hoops and get an SI, and if you have some other annoyance (like sleep apnea, for instance), you'll end up needing an SI for that, too. With luck, after 12-18 months, many unneccessary tests, much unwarranted expense, and lots of anxiety, you might have a medical again. Or you might not.

With MOSAIC, you can avoid OKC medical roulette and keep right on flying your Warrior. You'll have SP limitations (one passenger max, daytime VFR only), but that might be okay for you and you might appreciate staying out of the FAA medical spin cycle.
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Plus, if you want the SI you can keep flying sport while getting all the testing together for the SI application. You could do that before, but now you use the same airplane.
 
EAA brought me down a few hundred prop cards that say "LIGHT SPORT ELIGIBLE" to hand out to people who have planes that now qualify under Mosaic. I went around and gave them to a few (Navions, TravelAirs, Stinsons, etc...). The Howards mostly don't qualify, just a knot or two too fast.
 
flyingron said:
EAA brought me down a few hundred prop cards that say "LIGHT SPORT ELIGIBLE" to hand out to people who have planes that now qualify under Mosaic. I went around and gave them to a few (Navions, TravelAirs, Stinsons, etc...). The Howards mostly don't qualify, just a knot or two too fast.
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If you get a chance, hand a few to the Blues for the F18s, and especially for Fat Albert. Great photo op.
 
flyingron said:
EAA brought me down a few hundred prop cards that say "LIGHT SPORT ELIGIBLE" to hand out to people who have planes that now qualify under Mosaic. I went around and gave them to a few (Navions, TravelAirs, Stinsons, etc...). The Howards mostly don't qualify, just a knot or two too fast.
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Serious question. Is it that the aircraft is eligible for Light Sport, that Sport Pilot privileges allow for operation of that make/model, or both?
 
Based on CAS my Warrior does NOT qualify as LSA.
At a flaps up 59 IAS my CAS is nearly 65. This is according to the calibration chart in my POH.

Note: See the corrections below and my mea culpa post #42.
 
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