More TSA nonsense

flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

Touchdown! Greaser!
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iMooniac
From someone who went to the "badge training" the other night:

The 1 hour presentation was dry and boring, but necessary. There was more stupidity discovered. According to airport ops, you CANNOT escort a person that has been approved for a badge, that just happen to leave it at home, even if you are flying together and you are PIC, and even if you have known them for 50 years. You can however escort a totally un-vetted person that has never passed a TSA Security Assessment or been issued a badge. If you are a “Badged” person, you MUST have your badge with you when you are in the AOA, no matter what the reason for being there or if you are with an Escort. Be very aware of piggybacking. Be aware that the TSA have been trying to breach security to test us.

If you are escorting a person, or group of people, and you need to use the facilities, you CANNOT leave them alone while you relieve yourself, because then they would be unescorted, so therefore you will need to hold it, or escort them outside the AOA, do your business and then escort them back into the AOA.

You will be required to challenge any suspicious characters or unescorted individuals, and deny access to the AOA if they cannot provide a badge or proof of escort. As the airport ops stated, we are part of the security protocol at the airport.

As silly as these rules seem, I encourage everyone to follow the rules and get their shinny new security badge, as indicated last night, the TSA fines can be upwards of $11,000 per violation.
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:mad3::mad3::mad3::mad3::mad3:
 
According to airport ops, you CANNOT escort a person that has been approved for a badge, that just happen to leave it at home, even if you are flying together and you are PIC, and even if you have known them for 50 years. You can however escort a totally un-vetted person that has never passed a TSA Security Assessment or been issued a badge.
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Now that sounds dumb. We ran into that from time to time in the Air Force when someone left his badge in the pocket of his other flight suit, and his crewmate would escort him in the flightline restricted area. Someone needs to tell TSA that this is ridiculous.

If you are escorting a person, or group of people, and you need to use the facilities, you CANNOT leave them alone while you relieve yourself, because then they would be unescorted, so therefore you will need to hold it, or escort them outside the AOA, do your business and then escort them back into the AOA.
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I can't argue with that one. If you're escorting them, you gotta escort them, and you can't do that if you can't see them. The fact that you trust that person out of your sight doesn't mean the airport security folks have to. They'll just have to go in the can with you, or you'll have to pee before you enter the AOA.
 
As silly as these rules seem, I encourage everyone to follow the rules and get their shinny new security badge, as indicated last night, the TSA fines can be upwards of $11,000 per violation.
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I'd urge everyone to NOT GET THE SHINY NEW SECURITY BADGE because it looks like that way you're better off.
 
Just imagine the mess we'd have if OSH still had sceduled air service:yikes:

Imagine escorting 10,000 transient pilots in the AOA
 
vontresc said:
Just imagine the mess we'd have if OSH still had sceduled air service:yikes:

Imagine escorting 10,000 transient pilots in the AOA
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The AFSS guy told me there is a special security watch by them that watches during AirVenture week. Think AWACS and such.

Of course there could be 10,000 military personel armed with M-16s and none of that would be good enough the The Stoopid Agency. They'd want the ones with the guns to go through X-ray to check for hidden weapons.
 
kent-

when does the club move to a different airport?
 
I will just take a dump on the ramp and kick the turds into place to spell TSA. That way no one remains unescorted.
 
EdFred said:
I will just take a dump on the ramp and kick the turds into place to spell TSA. That way no one remains unescorted.
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I was thinking of just carrying a little sign with that said "TSA" and then doing something similar.
 
gprellwitz said:
I was thinking of just carrying a little sign with that said "TSA" and then doing something similar.
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That would work better. Then I don't get any on my shoes.

Maybe we all need to do a similar thing at all badged airports on a designated day. Make it dog doo or something and just dump it, unless you really want to drop trow out there.
 
Again, assuming we cannot successfully get this ludicrous farce of a "plan" set aside, the affected airports need to band together to create a "Security Badge Coalition" by which each airport adopts the same uniform and compliant standards, and they implement a reciprocity of badges approach.
 
SCCutler said:
Again, assuming we cannot successfully get this ludicrous farce of a "plan" set aside, the affected airports need to band together to create a "Security Badge Coalition" by which each airport adopts the same uniform and compliant standards, and they implement a reciprocity of badges approach.
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Two problems with that approach, Spike:

1) It makes too much logical sense, and that can't be had.

2) That means that each airport wouldn't be funneling money to the background check contractors, who then in turn wouldn't be funneling enough money back to the TSA. So, you see that each airport MUST have its own badge so that the required palms can still be greased.
 
SCCutler said:
Again, assuming we cannot successfully get this ludicrous farce of a "plan" set aside, the affected airports need to band together to create a "Security Badge Coalition" by which each airport adopts the same uniform and compliant standards, and they implement a reciprocity of badges approach.
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Ah. A threat conspiracy.
 
tonycondon said:
when does the club move to a different airport?
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As soon as we find another airport that's convenient for all the members, charges $180/mo for the hangar, has a 24-hour FBO that pulls the planes out and puts them away for us, etc... :frown2:

As much as this absolutely SUCKS, we have a great airport and a great FBO. And great controllers, and 3 ILS approaches, and 3 big runways, and ARFF, and the occasional F-16 taking off with full afterburner at night right in front of you as you're holding short right where he rotates, and... :(:(:(:(:(
 
flyingcheesehead said:
...and the occasional F-16 taking off with full afterburner at night right in front of you as you're holding short right where he rotates, and... :(:(:(:(:(
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:yikes: SEE!!!! THAT'S WHY YOU HAFTA HAVE BETTER SECURITY! Why, just weeks ago one of them terrorized New York City!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
You will be required to challenge any suspicious characters or unescorted individuals, and deny access to the AOA if they cannot provide a badge or proof of escort. As the airport ops stated, we are part of the security protocol at the airport.
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YIKES!!! They want UNARMED personnel to challenge TERRORISTS??? :yikes:

WHAT ARE THESE PEOPLE SMOKING???
 
Palmpilot said:
YIKES!!! They want UNARMED personnel to challenge TERRORISTS??? :yikes:
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Depending on your state of residence, criminal background, religous beliefs, etc., etc., there is absolutely no need to be unarmed.:nono:

Palmpilot said:
WHAT ARE THESE PEOPLE SMOKING???
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They're smoking your and my dollars and they just can't get enough.
 
EdFred said:
I will just take a dump on the ramp and kick the turds into place to spell TSA. That way no one remains unescorted.
Click to expand...

gprellwitz said:
I was thinking of just carrying a little sign with that said "TSA" and then doing something similar.
Click to expand...

EdFred said:
That would work better. Then I don't get any on my shoes.

Maybe we all need to do a similar thing at all badged airports on a designated day. Make it dog doo or something and just dump it, unless you really want to drop trow out there.
Click to expand...

Or do as a guy in my car in driver ed in high school did and make a model of doggie doo with clay. He left that pile on the instructor's seat. The instructor knew him and figured it just could be real. What it didn't have was the smell (thank goodness).
 
Here's another example of TSA nonsense from our travel coordinator at work:
Ladies and gentlemen,

More information on Secure flight.


I just found out this information:

Your name has to match exactly as it is shown on the photo ID you use when you travel.

If you travel internationally and your drivers license says one thing and your passport another, you should give me the information shown on your passport.

Ex: Drivers license – John M. Smith Passport – John Martin Smith

You can not have John M. Smith on your ticket and have an ID that shows John Martin Smith. You will be denied boarding!! They have to match exactly!

If you never travel internationally, you can use the name as it appears on your drivers license, BUT if you ever travel internationally you should use the name as it appears on your passport. That means that you have to use the passport as you ID even when you travel domestically as well.


If you have any questions in regards to this, please feel free to contact me. These changes are mandated by the US Government.
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The idiots can't figure out that 'M' just might mean "Martin"? I'm in that boat- middle initial on the driver's license and middle name in the passport.
:mad3::mad2::confused::dunno:
 
Well the Wis AG just confirmed that Open Carry is legal.....Maybe it's tome to get a six shooter, and a holster :)
 
Ron Levy said:
Now that sounds dumb. We ran into that from time to time in the Air Force when someone left his badge in the pocket of his other flight suit, and his crewmate would escort him in the flightline restricted area. Someone needs to tell TSA that this is ridiculous.
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I doubt the prohibition against escorting someone who has been issued a badge is a TSA thing. It sounds like the airport wrote it into their security program (if the did, the airport manager is an idiot) or a misunderstanding by the briefer.

Ron Levy said:
I can't argue with that one. If you're escorting them, you gotta escort them, and you can't do that if you can't see them. The fact that you trust that person out of your sight doesn't mean the airport security folks have to. They'll just have to go in the can with you, or you'll have to pee before you enter the AOA.
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Or, you just pee on the AOA.
 
I was at the meeting, and the escorting thing is definately a TSA thing. TSA told them if they have a badge they cannot be in the AOA without it. Not even escorted. The other idiocy they brought up was that everyone with a badge is supposed to card in, even if in a group.

Believe me the Airport manager is as exasperated with the TSA as we are.
 
vontresc said:
I was at the meeting, and the escorting thing is definately a TSA thing. TSA told them if they have a badge they cannot be in the AOA without it. Not even escorted. The other idiocy they brought up was that everyone with a badge is supposed to card in, even if in a group.

Believe me the Airport manager is as exasperated with the TSA as we are.
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POLL TIME: Has anyone based at a different airport been briefed that someone who has a badge can't be escorted on the AOA?
 
Nope. It's not an airport thing. It's the idiots at TSA
 
To be fair, a person who forgot their badge can be escorted by someone with, I guess, more privileges than us mere badged pilots/owners. Here at KBED, we can call ma$$port operations to get an escort.

That said, the security requirements at airports are junk, put in place by people who have no clue how airports are used and no clue how to address security risks.
 
Clark1961 said:
Depending on your state of residence, criminal background, religous beliefs, etc., etc., there is absolutely no need to be unarmed.:nono:
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I'm betting that in practice, most of the escorts will be unarmed, and that this will remain true unless they REQUIRE the escorts to be armed. The implication of that is that they are taking freedom away from law-abiding people with a program that can't possibly fulfill its intended purpose. If that's not an unreasonable burden on the right to travel, I don't know what is.

And for those who missed my previous posts on the subject, unreasonable burden on the right to travel = unconstitutional per the Supreme Court in Shapiro v. Thompson.
 
If everybody ignores this and refuses to pay stupid TSA fines, what can they legally do about it? I'm not being snarky, I am genuinely curious.
 
steingar said:
If everybody ignores this and refuses to pay stupid TSA fines, what can they legally do about it? I'm not being snarky, I am genuinely curious.
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The problem is, there are too many spineless weenies out there who won't ignore it, because they lack the balls to stand up to this sort of crap. So there's a handful of us that get screwed over.
 
Ghery said:
Or do as a guy in my car in driver ed in high school did and make a model of doggie doo with clay. He left that pile on the instructor's seat. The instructor knew him and figured it just could be real. What it didn't have was the smell (thank goodness).
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Going to trick shop and buying the rubber stuff was too mundane?

http://www.dogdoo.com/Default.asp

Just a few clicks. No muss. No smell.
http://www.mailpoop.com/
http://www.poopprank.com/

http://www.smellypoop.com
 
So here's a question for the group:

How many of you would be willing to "challenge" a terrorist without being armed?
 
Palmpilot said:
So here's a question for the group:

How many of you would be willing to "challenge" a terrorist without being armed?
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What is he armed with?
What is the situation?
Where am I?
 
EdFred said:
What is he armed with?
What is the situation?
Where am I?
Click to expand...

The scenario is described in the opening post:

You will be required to challenge any suspicious characters or unescorted individuals, and deny access to the AOA if they cannot provide a badge or proof of escort.
Click to expand...

It could be an individual terrorist, or a group as on 9/11. You probably won't know what they are armed with until it's too late, but it could be anything from box cutters to tactical nukes. You could be escorting them to a plane they claim is theirs, or you might see them in the AOA while you are going about your business.

"Challenging " non-terrorists does nothing to stop terrorism. Challenging terrorists, or even ordinary criminals, without being armed could be fatal.

This "secret" directive has not been thought through.

They should put armed guards on the edges of the sterile area, and leave the rest of us the heck alone.
 
Palmpilot said:
The scenario is described in the opening post:



It could be an individual terrorist, or a group as on 9/11. You probably won't know what they are armed with until it's too late, but it could be anything from box cutters to tactical nukes. You could be escorting them to a plane they claim is theirs, or you might see them in the AOA while you are going about your business.

"Challenging " non-terrorists does nothing to stop terrorism. Challenging terrorists, or even ordinary criminals, without being armed could be fatal.

This "secret" directive has not been thought through.

They should put armed guards on the edges of the sterile area, and leave the rest of us the heck alone.
Click to expand...

"Hey -- who are you guys?"

"We are terrorists -- we will usher in the New Earth. Step aside, infidel..."

"Whatever...."
 
Honestly, just ignore all of it.

You can't escort someone who has a badge but forgot it at home? "Oh, I'm sorry, I never applied for a badge and I most certainly didn't leave it at home".

You need an escort to be on the field? Fine, escort me if you want, but I don't care if you do or don't.

-Felix
 
How will the TSA enforce this nonsense? Do they have enough personnel to staff all of these airports?

Hey TSA......Badge This! :mad3:
 
TSA seems to draw its menials from a small and brackish pool.

.
 
Apparently at our airport (KMSN) the TSA get bored, and tries to "breach" the AOA through the FBO on a regular basis. I wouldn't put it past them to ramp check folks and play gotcha games around here.

At least the Airport Ops people are on our side. TSA says access should be on an as needed basis, so when the #2 TSA guy asked for GA access the airport ops manager told him to justify his need, and denied him access :). Apparently the TSA guy didn't like that, but in the end couldn't justify need.
 
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