More TSA nonsense

smigaldi said:
Which one of Newton's laws is a "big error of physics"?
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As a long skeptic of dark energy I am rooting for an error in the second law (I'm a TeVeS/MONDS man for you astronomers). F=m*a is only a close approximation when your rolling ball bearings down wooden ramps plastered with carbon paper in the 9th grade or an apple falls on your head.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
We're not gonna, unless we absolutely have to. :no: Our second-best option is C29 which would be great for me personally as it'd mean only a 5-minute drive (or 20-minute bike) to the airport instead of a 1/2 hour drive.
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Hey Kent, come on over to 87Y where we have $211/mo hangars. Last I looked, we're the only one in our 8 unit t-hangar building.

Wait..... no fuel, no FBO, no bathroom, no-one to fix the hangar door when it breaks, no mechanic, no rental planes, no CFI's, and weeds growing through the runway.

Ah, nevermind. :)
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Richard: How do you know that now <g>

Best,

Dave
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Mostly an act of faith, I guess, plus the fact that no one says they've seen my atoms being disassembled and reassembled overnight!

It may or may not be logical, but as an engineer I have less faith in the inventions of humankind than I do in natural processes! :smilewinkgrin:
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Fair? Reality.

What was once a "natural law" has now been shown to not universally apply.

Can Newtons "laws" still be used? Sure, I do it every day.

But we now know that they are not inviolate "laws of physics" anymore.

Pesonally, I expect much (if not all) of what we now consider to be "laws" to fall the same way at some time just as all the previous "laws" have.
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Purely from an old atom smasher's perspective, with a few mods, actually they still apply. With corrections for relativity and mass energy equivalence. In my work we incorporate most of Newton's laws with extensions to cover high energy particle physics, and by definition high energy particle physics requires conservation of momentum, force, etc, but we extended Newton to account for mass-energy conservation, which Newton neglected. Now, if someone could please find me a magnetic monopole, we could complete the unified field theory and really go to town.
 
Skyhawk-II said:
Hey Kent, come on over to 87Y where we have $211/mo hangars. Last I looked, we're the only one in our 8 unit t-hangar building.

Wait..... no fuel, no FBO, no bathroom, no-one to fix the hangar door when it breaks, no mechanic, no rental planes, no CFI's, and weeds growing through the runway.

Ah, nevermind. :)
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Howdy Skyhawk,

Welcome to the board! (I see you've been lurking. ;)) Good to have another Wisconsinite here.

Believe it or not, we pay LESS than you do for our hangars at MSN, with all the amenities. Yeah, we're down on the South Ramp where we have to wait for fuel sometimes, we have a beat-up old terminal, smelly bathrooms, hangar doors that barely work on a good day (though that's not OUR problem, the poor line guys have to wedge 'em open for us!), the mechanics and rentals and CFI's are all over on the East side, and there's weeds growing through the parking lot... That said, we at least *have* all those facilities. ;) The ramp was pretty bad until they rebuilt it last year, now I don't think there's a single crack in any of the surfaces on the airport, except for maybe Taxiway Alpha (the airliners' main taxiway, parallel to 18-36 on the West side) which is going to be rebuilt over the course of the next two summers.

How are things out at Blackhawk? Last I heard, someone had bought it or taken it over and they were trying to do good things there... Unfortunately I think that's an uphill battle. :(

Say, ya wanna join a flying club? ;)
 
W.
T.
F.

So, after going through the training, the forms, the 2-week badge-issuing freeze because the TSA couldn't decide whether or not they should print "General Aviation" on the badge or not and the corresponding 2-week implementation delay by the airport, and the whole thing over Social Security numbers...

Today, I get a letter in the mail from the airport, addressed to All General Aviation Users. "Recently, you attended training and signed a General Aviation AOA badge access form at one of our training sessions. The enclosed forms are required in order to make your badging application complete. Please read and sign the forms and return them in the enclosed envelope. We apologize for any inconvenience and appreciate your help with this."

The forms are a full-page Privacy Act Notice (print, date and sign at the bottom), followed by an Information Certification ("The information I have provided is true, complete, and correct to the best of my knowledge yadda yadda blah blah regulation reference," print, sign and date), and then...

Social Security Authorization Statement

I authorize the Social Security Administration to release my Social Security Number and full name to the Transportation Security Administration, Office of Transportation Threat Assessment and Credentialing (TTAC), Attention: Aviation Programs (TSA-19)/Aviation Worker Program, 601 South 12th Street, Arlington, VA 20598.

I am the individual to whom the information applies and want this information released to verify that my SSN is correct. I know that if I make any representation that I know is false to obtain information from Social Security records, I could be punished by a fine or imprisonment or both.
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So, now after we were illegally asked for our SSN's and coerced out of them anyway, now we have to consent to the TSA snooping through our Social Security records to make SURE that we gave them the right information they weren't allowed to ask for?

This is BS. I'm not going to return it. I have my badge, and they have my SSN. :mad2:

At least the airport ops people were nice enough to include a pre-addressed envelope with postage included.
 
Skyhawk-II said:
Hey Kent, come on over to 87Y where we have $211/mo hangars. Last I looked, we're the only one in our 8 unit t-hangar building.

Wait..... no fuel, no FBO, no bathroom, no-one to fix the hangar door when it breaks, no mechanic, no rental planes, no CFI's, and weeds growing through the runway.

Ah, nevermind. :)
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And a condemned remnant of an FBO building :D
 
Kent: Do you know your congress critter? A letter sounds appropriate with a cc to AOPA and any other aviation groups of which you are a member. I don't have to tell you that Social Security numbers were never meant to establish identification. It sure sounds like a misuse to me. If you have government ID, that should be sufficient.
I recently had to get finger prints to renew my Texas RE license; new requirement. SSAN was not required anywhere in that process.

I went through this at UT when getting my MBA: two issues which lead to university policy changes. 1). They wanted my SSAN to be my student ID number; I declined. Long process. They assigned another ID number. Years later, UT's computer system was broken into and the thieves got all the student's SSANs except a few <g>. 2). I had a pre-nep with a wife that had family trusts. For student loans, they required that I divulge all her financial info. I refused, cited the Pre-nep and that I didn't have access to that info--which I didn't. Long story short, and after a letter from a sizable Texas law firm, the policy was changed.

These things will simply keep occurring if not challenged. One can be firm, but nice.

Best,

Dave
 
No, it just means I know my limitations!
 
Dave Siciliano said:
This was sent to me by one of the locals here at Addison.

Best,

Dave

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Father's Day In Handcuffs Not So Much Fun

Photographer Detained Shooting Pictures Of B-24

A photographer for The Dallas Observer was detained at Dallas's Addison airport, a reliever airport north of the city and Love Field, when TSA officials challenged his right to be on the tarmac taking pictures of a B-24 Liberator (file photo below) which was giving rides for Father's Day.
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The photographer, identified only as "Danny" in the blog in The Observer online, had the permission of the owners and pilots of the Liberator to take the shots. He was waiting for the airplane to take off when he was approached by Addison police officers, one with an unholstered gun, who handcuffed the photographer and held him until TSA could clear him. He was told he was violating federal law, and that a report would be sent to TSA. The incident even closed the airport for a short time.
The photographer was told he could not be on the "tarmac", which he did not realize included the areas adjacent to the runway.
Eventually, the problem was sorted out. One of the Liberator crew told him later that he'd been ID'd as being OK for the photo shoot, and that the tower personnel tried to keep the incident from happening, but "once the wheels were set in motion, it could not be stopped" the photographer said. "The pilots were pretty much cool and laughed at me and were even willing to escort me to take more shots. However, the officer had asked me to leave, so I did. The police were professional, and I consider myself lucky."


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He needed one of these:
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The idea being if the maroons can make up phony laws we can make up phony permits for them.
http://www.matthewwilliamsdesign.com/weblog/index.php/site/comments/muni_dont_take_my_kodachrome/
 

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The guy who took the Addison Liberator pictures should post some of them and his story on the Photography Is Legal group pool on Flickr. This is a common issue for photographers, not just with the TSA, but all sorts of other LEO and property owners who don't understand the law or rules.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
The guy who took the Addison Liberator pictures should post some of them and his story on the Photography Is Legal group pool on Flickr. This is a common issue for photographers, not just with the TSA, but all sorts of other LEO and property owners who don't understand the law or rules.
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The Addison incident had nothing to do with photography. He was, rightly or wrongly, jacked up for being someplace he wasn't supposed to be (at least in the minds of the cops).
 
kkoran said:
The Addison incident had nothing to do with photography. He was, rightly or wrongly, jacked up for being someplace he wasn't supposed to be (at least in the minds of the cops).
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I'm not convinced. He wasn't the only one on the tarmac--they were giving RIDES--there were lots of people there. Why do you think they singled him out? The CAMERA.
 
Just checked orbitz - cheapest DEN-CHI on Aug 24 is $94 on United and if you need to check bags, add $15-20.
DEN-Midway is also $94 on Frontier, similar bag charges.
Amtrak is $95 but there's only one train and it leaves at 8 pm and gets into downtown CHI at 3:45 pm the next day. But the fares are refundable and changeable with little hassle.

I'm not saying rail is as convenient as airline but depending on the criteria, it's competitive.

My cousin has lung problems and it's difficult to fly, hence he takes the train when ever he travels - he's based near OAK and Amtrak's northern california station is nearby (Emeryville).
 
TangoWhiskey said:
I'm not convinced. He wasn't the only one on the tarmac--they were giving RIDES--there were lots of people there. Why do you think they singled him out? The CAMERA.
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This quote from the news article makes it sound like he had gone beyond the tarmac:

The photographer was told he could not be on the "tarmac", which he did not realize included the areas adjacent to the runway.

It doesn't make sense that they told him he couldn't be on the tarmac, for the reasons you cite, but if he was in areas adjacent to the runway, that could be what precipitated the incident.
 
Palmpilot said:
This quote from the news article makes it sound like he had gone beyond the tarmac:

The photographer was told he could not be on the "tarmac", which he did not realize included the areas adjacent to the runway.

It doesn't make sense that they told him he couldn't be on the tarmac, for the reasons you cite, but if he was in areas adjacent to the runway, that could be what precipitated the incident.
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According to the photographer's blog,
I got an early Father's Day surprise from Homeland Security. It seems the public is not allowed on the tarmac. I thought the tarmac was the cement runway, but it's actually a hundred yards or so on each side.
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And one of the respondents to the blog wrote the following (which of course cannot be verified):
For Anyone Who May Still Be Reading This Thread,
I work in the Control Tower at this airport. I was there when it happened. I cannot give my name because I'm not allowed to publicly comment, however after reading these comments I feel I need to clarify some things. The photographer crossed an ACTIVE taxiway, an ACTIVE RUNWAY, another ACTIVE taxiway before crouching down behind a runway sign just a few feet from the runway, pointing "something" at the aircraft that were taxiing around. WE called the Addison Police. Us. The Control Tower. It is our sworn duty to protect the flying public. At this point we had no idea who this individual was and what he was pointing at the airplanes. We conveyed this to the police. At this point we had more than a dozen aircraft circling in the air waiting to land and waiting on the ground for departure....all waiting until we could figure out if this guy had a gun. (Hey, we HAVE actually had people call us up with gun threats before.) THIS is why the Officer responded with such urgency. Once he was apprehended and removed, we let the circling airplanes land. The photographer has explained that the terminology is unfamiliar to him. There is no official word "tarmac" in aviation. It was a RUNWAY. You know, the thing planes land on.
After he was taken away, it was back to standard operations for us. It became a non-event for the FAA. I honestly don't know, and seriously have my doubts, if the TSA or DHS or whatever other government acronyms you want to make up ever had anything to do with this incident.
Quite frankly, this just became one of the really good "War Stories" that controllers love to tell each other.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Air Traffic Controller
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Sounds like the guy was given inadequate instructions about where he could and could not go.
 
flyersfan31 said:
What's sad, or funny, depending on your perspective, is that the license would almost CERTAINLY work.
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I just watch the "Trekkies" movies, and was surprised to see United Federation of Planets passports that had been stamped by U.S. immigration, among many others!
 
Skyhawk-II said:
Hey Kent, come on over to 87Y where we have $211/mo hangars. Last I looked, we're the only one in our 8 unit t-hangar building.

Wait..... no fuel, no FBO, no bathroom, no-one to fix the hangar door when it breaks, no mechanic, no rental planes, no CFI's, and weeds growing through the runway.

Ah, nevermind. :)
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Now that is just sad.

I flew out of there in the 80's. Place was owned by David Strassman. There was only one runway at the time, 9/27. There was a decent shop, 100LL, the place was fairly well cared for, grass mowed, snow plowed. We had hangar parties, cookouts, and the skydiving club from Columbus sometimes came over when their grass was too wet. One of my buddies flew their C182 on the weekends.

It's a shame to let what was once a decent airport go downhill like that.
 
Mason said:
Now that is just sad.

I flew out of there in the 80's. Place was owned by David Strassman. There was only one runway at the time, 9/27. There was a decent shop, 100LL, the place was fairly well cared for, grass mowed, snow plowed. We had hangar parties, cookouts, and the skydiving club from Columbus sometimes came over when their grass was too wet. One of my buddies flew their C182 on the weekends.

It's a shame to let what was once a decent airport go downhill like that.
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Heh, it's still owned by the Strassman's. I believe they are just cutting costs to break even, because property taxes have gone up, CFI insurance, etc. They stopped selling fuel to save on insurance, apparently.

I really wish I could have seen 87Y back in its heyday. I heard it was just like you described even 10 years back.

Morey airport got a bunch of federal money, and a bunch of people headed there to build hangars. Nice long runway now, ILS, etc..
 
Skyhawk-II said:
Morey airport got a bunch of federal money,
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... because Field Morey was savvy enough to convince the mayor that his city needed a municipal airport and would get more out of it with a bigger, federally-financed runway. :yes:

and a bunch of people headed there to build hangars. Nice long runway now, ILS, etc..
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Just a Localizer, no ILS. Word is there's an AWOS in testing and the identifier is going to be changed to KMRV *very* soon. But those shiny new hangars run $400/month. :frown2:
 
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