More TSA nonsense

Aunt Peggy, we just got the details necessary to get new TSA compliant ramp passes at HPN. You are lucky KBDR has no commercial service!!!

-Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
Aunt Peggy, we just got the details necessary to get new TSA compliant ramp passes at HPN. You are lucky KBDR has no commercial service!!!

-Skip
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Would you be willing to share those details?
 
Still nonsense...the main problem is the basic premise behind the dept of 'homeland' defense. Nasty unAmerican department needs to be abolished...
 
ddevillers said:
Still nonsense...the main problem is the basic premise behind the dept of 'homeland' defense. Nasty unAmerican department needs to be abolished...
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The House Committee on Un-American Activities was shut down after only 38 years.
 
mikea said:
I have, however been unable to imagine what's behind the "YOU CANNOT ESCORT SOMEONE WHO HAS A BADGE!" other than the TSA suspecting that us uncooperative, devious, subversive, pilots would otherwise just have one guy at a time wearing the badge, and that wouldn't get them the pretty picture above.
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Here's why: TSA is attempting to become Big Brother. One of the things that we found out at the security training session is that once the new badge locks are in place, they'll be on both sides of the door. Every pilot will be required to individually badge in to get on the ramp *and* badge out when leaving the ramp. :yikes:

So yes, the feds will be effectively monitoring our movements.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Would you be willing to share those details?
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Can't. They're secret. :mad3:

In fact, the TSA won't even let the airport operations staff share them with us! We're supposed to know and follow the rules without being able to read, hear, or find out about them in any way. :dunno:
 
At KBED the training includes the prohibition against disclosing information on the "security" measures.

oops.
 
TSA is *trying* to monitor movements. Here at KBED they think they'll
be able to know who is on the airport. They seem to have forgotten that
it's an airport and people can arrive/depart via airplanes instead of gates.

I'd love to see the TSA brains explode when they try to control access to the airport
from HAFB. *pop* *pop* *pop*
 
Bob Noel said:
TSA is *trying* to monitor movements. Here at KBED they think they'll
be able to know who is on the airport. They seem to have forgotten that
it's an airport and people can arrive/depart via airplanes instead of gates.

I'd love to see the TSA brains explode when they try to control access to the airport
from HAFB. *pop* *pop* *pop*
Click to expand...

This when the ramps at airports like O'Hare still have minimum wage illegal workers walking onto to actual airliners all day long.
 
Bob Noel said:
TSA is *trying* to monitor movements. Here at KBED they think they'll
be able to know who is on the airport. They seem to have forgotten that
it's an airport and people can arrive/depart via airplanes instead of gates.

I'd love to see the TSA brains explode when they try to control access to the airport
from HAFB. *pop* *pop* *pop*
Click to expand...

What's HAFB?
 
The latest:

At MSN at least, implementation is being delayed another two weeks. It does sound like they have started issuing badges again. I was notified last night via e-mail that mine is ready.

Yeah, that's right - I caved and signed up. Why? Because it sounds like those who don't do the training until after the deadline will have to go through additional security checks and pay more money. (They're charging $45 for the badges currently.)

I asked some questions about some of the wording on the form, specifically the "challenge" part. Operations' reply was "We don't actually expect you to challenge them, we just want you to report them, but all of the wording on the form is exactly what the TSA told us we had to use." I really don't like that, because now I've signed my name stating that I will "challenge" them and if I don't and there was somehow a terrorist attack, I could be held liable. :hairraise:

Oh, and the other thing: One of the spots on the form asks for your social security number. I have been a victim of identity theft and I do not give out my SSN unless I have to, and I don't think it's legal for the TSA to even be asking for it. So that was another one of my questions for Ops. The reply: "Well, technically you're right and they can't *require* you to put it down on this form. However, every application we've submitted to the TSA without the 'optional' SSN on it has been rejected and the process for re-applying involves a 17-page form, original copies of all your documentation, and it's a big hassle. So, we recommend you put your SSN down anyway."

They really do think they're above the law. The problem is, for right now, they are. :mad3::mad3::mad3::mad3::mad3:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Oh, and the other thing: One of the spots on the form asks for your social security number. I have been a victim of identity theft and I do not give out my SSN unless I have to, and I don't think it's legal for the TSA to even be asking for it. So that was another one of my questions for Ops. The reply: "Well, technically you're right and they can't *require* you to put it down on this form. However, every application we've submitted to the TSA without the 'optional' SSN on it has been rejected and the process for re-applying involves a 17-page form, original copies of all your documentation, and it's a big hassle. So, we recommend you put your SSN down anyway."

They really do think they're above the law. The problem is, for right now, they are. :mad3::mad3::mad3::mad3::mad3:
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That is why at HPN I refused to apply for the badge. I was just letting them 'escort' me to my plane.
 
AuntPeggy said:
That is why at HPN I refused to apply for the badge. I was just letting them 'escort' me to my plane.
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Problem is, under this new TSA thing, they're not allowed to escort based pilots. You Must Have A Badge And That Is Final. :nonod:
 
So it's June 1. I'm wondering how things will change for us now as transients at FBOs. I'm betting not very much but we'll see. We don't have badges because we are not based at an airport with airlines. We have company IDs but they're not official in any government sense.
 
kent, you move the flying club planes to an outlying airport yet?
 
Everskyward said:
So it's June 1. I'm wondering how things will change for us now as transients at FBOs.
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It'll be interesting to find out...for me, that'll be Saturday, as I'm flying into KFSD for a Renaissance festival, weather permitting. (Thread crossover: I'll be wearing period clothing, too...and yes, that includes tights. :D )
 
jmaynard said:
It'll be interesting to find out...for me, that'll be Saturday, as I'm flying into KFSD for a Renaissance festival, weather permitting. (Thread crossover: I'll be wearing period clothing, too...and yes, that includes tights. :D )
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Hark, there goeth Sir Tron of Transistorlot!:D
 
Everskyward said:
So it's June 1. I'm wondering how things will change for us now as transients at FBOs. I'm betting not very much but we'll see.
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Probably nothing. And I don't know if MSN is the only airport delaying implementation or not, but we did get a short (two-week) respite. So it'll be business as usual until the 15th at least.

tonycondon said:
kent, you move the flying club planes to an outlying airport yet?
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We're not gonna, unless we absolutely have to. :no: Our second-best option is C29 which would be great for me personally as it'd mean only a 5-minute drive (or 20-minute bike) to the airport instead of a 1/2 hour drive. But, in comparison MSN is still the place to be:

Hangars: $180/mo/plane at MSN, $400/mo/plane at C29
Runways: 3 at MSN, 1 at C29
Approaches: 3 ILS, 5 GPS at MSN, 1 LOC and 2 GPS at C29
FBO: 24x7 at MSN (and they pull the planes in and out for us), daytime only at C29

The hangar rent is the big issue. If it was in the 200-250 range at C29 we might consider it. A $660/mo difference for the club is a non-starter - If we put that $$ toward a loan we could have a new airplane instead.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Problem is, under this new TSA thing, they're not allowed to escort based pilots. You Must Have A Badge And That Is Final. :nonod:
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Rule SD-8G supposedly lets the local airport management come up with an alternative method.. like escorting. :rofl:
 
Don't worry, it is a divide and conquer thing...you will be included eventually
 
Propose something draconian. Provoke response.

Respond to response with a counter of something merely unworkable. Provoke response.

Settle, reluctantly, after many counterproposals, for something much more restrictive than ever before, but not as bad as the draconian proposal.

Everyone's a winner loser.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Whoo boy, this just keeps getting stupider.

I was at the airport tonight, and there's a new twist. There was going to be a special security training session for the FBO personnel to get their badges on Thursday. On Wednesday, the TSA abruptly ordered the airport to stop issuing badges to anyone, period. They also notified the airport that badges that have already been issued may be invalidated. No explanation. FBO training session cancelled, no badges issued.
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And stupider yet...

The delay ended up being about 2 weeks where no badges were issued. I picked up my badge today, and they said implementation *is* delayed until June 15th for MSN at least. The reason for the delay?

They couldn't decide whether or not it was OK to print "General Aviation" on the badge or not.

Uniform Foxtrot Bravo, indeed.

And now, with the new -8G thing, basically this only affects based pilots. So for it to affect a terrorist, they'd have to buy an airplane and put it in a hangar here first. :dunno:

And we have a ways to go in terms of public education, too. To pick up the badge, we have to park in the ramp at the airline terminal. They validate the ticket so we don't have to pay for parking, so my ticket said "GA Badge" and was signed by one of the Ops people. The person at the parking exit said "Ah, you got your badge! Great!" and I said something to the effect of "Not really, it's just a great waste of taxpayer money." She said "Well, there's people out there who want to do bad things, blah blah blah..." I tried to explain that this reg wasn't going to stop them, but she opened the gate and said "have a nice day!" and shooed me out of there. :frown2:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
And stupider yet...

The delay ended up being about 2 weeks where no badges were issued. I picked up my badge today, and they said implementation *is* delayed until June 15th for MSN at least. The reason for the delay?

They couldn't decide whether or not it was OK to print "General Aviation" on the badge or not.

Uniform Foxtrot Bravo, indeed.

And now, with the new -8G thing, basically this only affects based pilots. So for it to affect a terrorist, they'd have to buy an airplane and put it in a hangar here first. :dunno:

And we have a ways to go in terms of public education, too. To pick up the badge, we have to park in the ramp at the airline terminal. They validate the ticket so we don't have to pay for parking, so my ticket said "GA Badge" and was signed by one of the Ops people. The person at the parking exit said "Ah, you got your badge! Great!" and I said something to the effect of "Not really, it's just a great waste of taxpayer money." She said "Well, there's people out there who want to do bad things, blah blah blah..." I tried to explain that this reg wasn't going to stop them, but she opened the gate and said "have a nice day!" and shooed me out of there. :frown2:
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Sounds like somebody has a case of the Mondays.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
....

And now, with the new -8G thing, basically this only affects based pilots. So for it to affect a terrorist, they'd have to buy an airplane and put it in a hangar here first. :dunno:
...
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Ahhhhbut, it solves the every sweeps week, "TONIGHT AT 10! We went to the airport AND WALKED RIGHT UP TO A PLANE!!!!!" problem. Only it probably doesn't.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
And stupider yet...

The delay ended up being about 2 weeks where no badges were issued. I picked up my badge today, and they said implementation *is* delayed until June 15th for MSN at least. The reason for the delay?

They couldn't decide whether or not it was OK to print "General Aviation" on the badge or not.

Uniform Foxtrot Bravo, indeed.

And now, with the new -8G thing, basically this only affects based pilots. So for it to affect a terrorist, they'd have to buy an airplane and put it in a hangar here first. :dunno:

And we have a ways to go in terms of public education, too. To pick up the badge, we have to park in the ramp at the airline terminal. They validate the ticket so we don't have to pay for parking, so my ticket said "GA Badge" and was signed by one of the Ops people. The person at the parking exit said "Ah, you got your badge! Great!" and I said something to the effect of "Not really, it's just a great waste of taxpayer money." She said "Well, there's people out there who want to do bad things, blah blah blah..." I tried to explain that this reg wasn't going to stop them, but she opened the gate and said "have a nice day!" and shooed me out of there. :frown2:
Click to expand...

That lady at the parking exit will be the next TSA/DHS supervisor very soon. They seem to have her mind controlled perfectly.:yikes::eek::nonod:
 
jmaynard said:
(Thread crossover: I'll be wearing period clothing, too...and yes, that includes tights. :D )
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Unfortunately, due to your avatar, that mental image is forever burned into my brain.




:frown2::rofl:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Can't. They're secret. :mad3:

In fact, the TSA won't even let the airport operations staff share them with us! We're supposed to know and follow the rules without being able to read, hear, or find out about them in any way. :dunno:
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It's like being married. Just think of it like that.
 
mikea said:
What the big deal? At least it wasn't a PILOT WITHOUT A BADGE!
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If the poor souls in those flights on 9/11 had guns at least they would have had a chance. Come to think of it, if those murderers knew folks were carrying they probably wouldn't even think about being able to take over a flight...
 
On the June 10th TSA blog about camping, hunting, fishing gear you can/cannot take:

http://www.tsa.gov/blog

Lighters were once banned, but are now permitted in your carry-on as of August, 2007. Torch lighters are still prohibited.
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I have to laugh that it's okay for me to bring a lighter, but not a bottle of water. That's just insane.
 
I'm a law breaker; they took my shaving cream today! When the agent at the scanner called for a bag check, I knew my goose was cooked. I became very hard of hearing, moved kinna slow and hunched over. The lady was nice enough to repeat a couple times that the shaving cream can was too big...huh, sorry, I don't hear well. She just finally took the shaving cream and told me to be on my way.

What fun. After packing, traveling to the airport at zero dark thirty and almost stripping at the gate, and going through all the hoopla to get outta the airport, I have to add a stop at the grocery store to get shaving cream before I can get on my way.

I'll give you some shaving cream...right in the old.....

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
I'm a law breaker; they took my shaving cream today! When the agent at the scanner called for a bag check, I knew my goose was cooked. I became very hard of hearing, moved kinna slow and hunched over. The lady was nice enough to repeat a couple times that the shaving cream can was too big...huh, sorry, I don't hear well. She just finally took the shaving cream and told me to be on my way.

What fun. After packing, traveling to the airport at zero dark thirty and almost stripping at the gate, and going through all the hoopla to get outta the airport, I have to add a stop at the grocery store to get shaving cream before I can get on my way.

I'll give you some shaving cream...right in the old.....

Best,

Dave
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You know, I've found that they don't find those liquids 90% of the time. Which is why I just always forget to get my quarter bag with my liquids out of my bag. Bad memory I guess.

-Felix
 
Dave Siciliano said:
What fun. After packing, traveling to the airport at zero dark thirty and almost stripping at the gate, and going through all the hoopla to get outta the airport, I have to add a stop at the grocery store to get shaving cream before I can get on my way.
Click to expand...

Where ya headed, Dave? (Don't you own a P-Baron? ;))
 
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