poadeleted20
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Y'all are seeing things that aren't there. If you don't want to cooperate, fine, but you will be the only person to suffer for that.
More TSA nonsense
- Thread starter flyingcheesehead
- Start date
JeffDG
Touchdown! Greaser!
Why would there be such a logo? The TSA Security Directive does not apply to pilots, linemen, or anyone else on the ramp. It applies to the Airport operator. That operator is then responsible for developing a security plan, along with all the rules and training necessary. That's why you don't need to see the SD...those who it applies to have it. You are only obligated to follow the local airport's rules and regulations.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Hmmm.
So if it does not apply to *me* then what is their justification for "fines" and "criminal charges?" And what criminal charges would apply?
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
The problem with that line of reasoning is that it insulates the TSA from responsibility to the public for a directive that has serious consequences for the public.
That, sir, is not acceptable in a free society.
sba55
En-Route
There's a difference between "apply" and "affect", but it's irrelevant in this context. It might not apply to pilots, but it most certainly directly affects them. They're using a loophole because they've realized that there is a lot of resistance to their policies. Now they're trying to sneak in at least part of their agenda.
-Felix
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
Am I just hallucinating when I see that word "challenge" on the form?
So far, the most benign interpretation of that word that has been suggested on various forums is to ask in a friendly manner to see their ID.
In the off chance that you actually did discover a terrorist, or a group of terrorists, through a challenge (however you choose to interpret that word), what do YOU think would happen next?
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flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Whoo boy, this just keeps getting stupider.
First - The major flying clubs on the field had scheduled a Q&A session with the TSA for last Sunday. On Friday, the TSA cancelled the session, and directed airport personnel to not substitute for them or answer any questions whatsoever. (Knowledge is power, and the TSA can't give any of that to us, right?)
But that's just the start. I was at the airport tonight, and there's a new twist. There was going to be a special security training session for the FBO personnel to get their badges on Thursday. On Wednesday, the TSA abruptly ordered the airport to stop issuing badges to anyone, period. They also notified the airport that badges that have already been issued may be invalidated. No explanation. FBO training session cancelled, no badges issued.
Now, with the possibility that only the linemen who fuel the airliners (and thus already have a SIDA badge) will have access to the airport as of June 1st, the flight school is preparing to move their entire fleet to a different airport until the situation is resolved. It'll be mighty interesting to see what happens when transient aircraft arrive and they have to wait for escorts (or airline flights have to get delayed waiting for fuel because the fuelers are busy being GA escorts on the other side of the field).
Un-****ing-believable.
First - The major flying clubs on the field had scheduled a Q&A session with the TSA for last Sunday. On Friday, the TSA cancelled the session, and directed airport personnel to not substitute for them or answer any questions whatsoever. (Knowledge is power, and the TSA can't give any of that to us, right?)
But that's just the start. I was at the airport tonight, and there's a new twist. There was going to be a special security training session for the FBO personnel to get their badges on Thursday. On Wednesday, the TSA abruptly ordered the airport to stop issuing badges to anyone, period. They also notified the airport that badges that have already been issued may be invalidated. No explanation. FBO training session cancelled, no badges issued.
Now, with the possibility that only the linemen who fuel the airliners (and thus already have a SIDA badge) will have access to the airport as of June 1st, the flight school is preparing to move their entire fleet to a different airport until the situation is resolved. It'll be mighty interesting to see what happens when transient aircraft arrive and they have to wait for escorts (or airline flights have to get delayed waiting for fuel because the fuelers are busy being GA escorts on the other side of the field).
Un-****ing-believable.
gprellwitz
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Grant Prellwitz
No, TOO f***ing-believable.Whoo boy, this just keeps getting stupider.
First - The major flying clubs on the field had scheduled a Q&A session with the TSA for last Sunday. On Friday, the TSA cancelled the session, and directed airport personnel to not substitute for them or answer any questions whatsoever. (Knowledge is power, and the TSA can't give any of that to us, right?)
But that's just the start. I was at the airport tonight, and there's a new twist. There was going to be a special security training session for the FBO personnel to get their badges on Thursday. On Wednesday, the TSA abruptly ordered the airport to stop issuing badges to anyone, period. They also notified the airport that badges that have already been issued may be invalidated. No explanation. FBO training session cancelled, no badges issued.
Now, with the possibility that only the linemen who fuel the airliners (and thus already have a SIDA badge) will have access to the airport as of June 1st, the flight school is preparing to move their entire fleet to a different airport until the situation is resolved. It'll be mighty interesting to see what happens when transient aircraft arrive and they have to wait for escorts (or airline flights have to get delayed waiting for fuel because the fuelers are busy being GA escorts on the other side of the field).
Un-****ing-believable.
gkainz
Final Approach
I am seriously calling "enough" ... what does it take to get the TSA revoked, disbanded, canned, muzzled, redirected ... whatever ... legally and using the political processes at hand. I'm serious. It's time for action. Grousing about this amongst ourselves is accomplishing nothing.
Frogs in a pot and the heat's increasing. It's time to leap, guys.
Frogs in a pot and the heat's increasing. It's time to leap, guys.
sba55
En-Route
This is great news! It doesn't take a very smart person to see that the TSA has no clue what they're doing. Hopefully, we'll get to a point soon where the people in charge will have no choice but to fire all those TSA idiots.Whoo boy, this just keeps getting stupider.
First - The major flying clubs on the field had scheduled a Q&A session with the TSA for last Sunday. On Friday, the TSA cancelled the session, and directed airport personnel to not substitute for them or answer any questions whatsoever. (Knowledge is power, and the TSA can't give any of that to us, right?)
But that's just the start. I was at the airport tonight, and there's a new twist. There was going to be a special security training session for the FBO personnel to get their badges on Thursday. On Wednesday, the TSA abruptly ordered the airport to stop issuing badges to anyone, period. They also notified the airport that badges that have already been issued may be invalidated. No explanation. FBO training session cancelled, no badges issued.
Now, with the possibility that only the linemen who fuel the airliners (and thus already have a SIDA badge) will have access to the airport as of June 1st, the flight school is preparing to move their entire fleet to a different airport until the situation is resolved. It'll be mighty interesting to see what happens when transient aircraft arrive and they have to wait for escorts (or airline flights have to get delayed waiting for fuel because the fuelers are busy being GA escorts on the other side of the field).
Un-****ing-believable.
I'm flying today. I love those signs that the TSA had to put up that say something to the effect of "our screeners are people, too. please be nice. verbal abuse will not be tolerated". Great. If you have to put up signs like that, it should tell you something...
ScottM
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iBazinga!
The BAA has had signs up in London-Heathrow for a while. But they also add that if you are speaking out you can be arrested for harassment. Martinets seldom get the real clue.
What 'til you get your Illinois license plates. The Secretary of State has those same signs everywhere. Same reason - although I've never had a problem other than the clerk behind the glass next to that paper sign ignoring me to talk on the phone.
Getting a car sticker at city hall is 'bout the same excect they make you do Gitmo-level torture of standing in long lines with a few hundred others in the un-air conditioned area of city hall where the loyal-Mare-voter maroon in front of you says AGAIN how he thinks it's good to sweat....
Just like with the TSA you have to learn the Zen survival technique of temporarily removing your brain and common sense until it's over.
As far as an anti-TSA revolt? If it was going to happen it woudl have. In all of their stupidity they have enough sense to stay away from groups that would stomp them, like drivers and gun owners. Pilots don't even make small potato level.
To 'plain in the bureaucracy understanding I posted on elsewhere.
What motivates the TSa actions goes like this:
The various secretaries have been testifying in front of congress that they will have new programs in place to cover the htreat from ......(anything except maybe Ryder trucks which have actually been used twice in domestic terrorist bomb attacks.)
- "M.. Secretary! 9/11 was 7 years ago! You have no progress to report!!!???"
- "GET THE PROGRAM GOING!!! Nevermind we don't know what or how. I have to testify in June! HAVE IT PLACE.
- ORDERS TO TROOPS: The airport and GA plane security program will be implemented by June. We can't tell the public what the rules are because we dont' know. We'll throwing around ideas to see what sticks....
- Anybody asks, the final policy is need to know for national security. That always works well.
- We need to have public hearings! GO! (I know. Just hold the meetings.)
- ...
TangoWhiskey
Touchdown! Greaser!
Congress passed the November 2001 Aviation and Transportation Security Act that created the TSA within the USDOT; when the Homeland Security Act was passed in 2002, oversight of the TSA transferred to the Department of Homeland Security.
So if Congress creates it, does it take a subsequent Act of Congress to make it go away?
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wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
TangoWhiskey
Touchdown! Greaser!
It's a government agency. It will NEVER go away.
Yeah, I had edited my original post, because I asked that very question and was afraid of sending it into the SZ: how many gov't agencies do you know of being disbanded once their role was complete?
ScottM
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iBazinga!
It is not unprecedented.
During the New Deal era many agencies were created and shut down for a variety of reasons. These were all sub-cabinet agencies and I am not aware of any cabinet ones that have been disbanded. Some cabinet level agencies have been re-organized into other agencies.
These agencies exist under the Executive branch of government and it can be the purview of the chief executive aka president, to shut down agencies that he feels no longer suit the needs of the mission of the executive branch. Congress's role is to authorize the creation of a new agency and then to budget it per the request of the executive branch.
sba55
En-Route
So then....why bother? I think I'll just keep my already-issued CA plates (which apparently got lost in the mail, so I don't have any plates whatsoever right no - which doesn't seem to be a problem. Police was right behind me for minutes today). Luckily, I still have a CA address, so maybe I'll just keep the registration there!What 'til you get your Illinois license plates. The Secretary of State has those same signs everywhere. Same reason - although I've never had a problem other than the clerk behind the glass next to that paper sign ignoring me to talk on the phone.
Getting a car sticker at city hall is 'bout the same excect they make you do Gitmo-level torture of standing in long lines with a few hundred others in the un-air conditioned area of city hall where the loyal-Mare-voter maroon in front of you says AGAIN how he thinks it's good to sweat....
This does relate to this discussion. To some extent, the TSA can do whatever they want - regs (just like laws) that aren't respected won't be enforced or cared for much. See the current IP/music download debate. I just hope the TSA keeps making outright idiotic policies such as the one Kent mentioned....
You got less than 30 days, pal: http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/vehicles/title_registration/home.html
Although you're right that you won't get pulled over - until you do. The cop is going to ask why you haven't applied and could write you one extra ticket. You get out of that by getting the DL, title and plates and showing the judge.
BTW, watch their eyes light up when they think about soaking you for the use tax. They should have some provision for a car you didn't buy but I wouldn't be surprised if you still owe some tax.
Another experience, when I FIRST registered my van. "Is this a new car?" -No. "OHHHH! THEN YOU'RE GOING TO PAY THE LATE REGISTRATION PENALTY!!!!!" It's new to me. I just bought it. "Oh. (darn.)"
You'll have the same fun.
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sba55
En-Route
Oh, in THAT case, I will definitely go out and change it!
Doesn't use tax only apply when the state where you bought the car doesn't have a sales tax?
nddons
Touchdown! Greaser!
It'll be mighty interesting to see what happens when transient aircraft arrive and they have to wait for escorts (or airline flights have to get delayed waiting for fuel because the fuelers are busy being GA escorts on the other side of the field).
Un-****ing-believable.
Let me know what it looks like post 6/1. I'll encourage all the instructors at KUES to take their students to KMSN.
I'd feel better with some Wisconsin ANG MPs with M-16s guarding that side of the airport vs. the TSA.
Uniform Foxtrot Bravo.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
That's the funny thing, the club is on the South ramp, adjacent to the WI ANG and their F-16's, but the TSA is worried that we'll make it *past* them over to the airline side. Sheesh.
kkoran
Pattern Altitude
Oh, in THAT case, I will definitely go out and change it!
Doesn't use tax only apply when the state where you bought the car doesn't have a sales tax?
I normally applies when the state you bought the car in assess less of a sales tax. Move from State A with a 5% sales tax to State B with a 7% sales/use tax, State B will want 2%.
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
I'll bet it doesn't work the other way- move from state B with 7% to state A with 5% tax. No state will give you 2%...
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
One thing I never understood -- when I moved from Minnesota to Nebraska the sum of the "taxable" income that both states taxed me on exceeded my total income.
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
I think one state had you use the multiplier of -1**(1/2) to calculate your imaginary income and used that to determine your income tax.
Clark1961
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And when I paid the tax on the imaginary income with an imaginary check they were most disappointed. I still get letters from them...
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That happens anyway.
Consider, if the state had a 10% tax to make things simple, and the fed rate was 20% on a $50,000 income (it isn't)
Gross pay $50,0000
- 20% Fed tax on $50,000 - $10,000
--------------------
$40,000
- 10% state tax on $50,000 -$5,000
------------
$35,000
-7.5% FICA on $50,000 -$3,750
-12.5%(?) Medicare on $50,000 -$6,250
....
In other words, you pay tax on the tax.
You wonder why your paycheck is so small?
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Who knows. It was rather annoying though.
I'm talking gross as well. If I took the gross income that each state calculated my tax on and added them together it greatly exceeded my actual gross income.
ScottM
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iBazinga!
Why did you have to pay tax on your entire gross for the two states? Shouldn't you have had to only pay on the wages you earned while living in one of the states?
For example if you grossed $36k and lived in Minn for 6 months and Nebraska for 6 months. Then each state would only have taxed you on $18k.
That is how it worked when I moved to Illinois. They only taxed me on the portion of my wages that year that were earned while a resident in the state.
There's a section of the Illinois state tax form where you can deduct income earned or tax paid in other states, but the way I understand it, the Great Lakes (IN, IL, WI) states have an agreement that has to be renewed.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
I can't remember the exact numbers. But for example, if my total gross was $50,000 one state taxed me like $35000 and the other state like $20000 for a total of $55,000. I checked this with multiple different tax sources and it all worked out like this. Minnesota taxed me more then I made in their state.
ReverendSlappy
Ejection Handle Pulled
ddevillers
Pre-Flight
ddevillers
Pre-Flight
How do you know it is a terriorist? Maybe because they have a uniform they are not one? or is it the badge that tells you they are not one?
Nonsense all....
ddevillers
Pre-Flight
I tried to get the ACLU interested, and all they really wanted was for me to join up...
ddevillers
Pre-Flight
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
Man, Jesse, you need an accountant. You can even go back and file amended returns; the accountant will pay for himself.
Ya gotta guess in their peabrains they envision the pride and sense of accomplishment they'll have seeing everybody wearing those widely-varying badges, including Mr. Mohammed Atta, of AQ, Inc, who had no problem copying one.
I have, however been unable to imagine what's behind the "YOU CANNOT ESCORT SOMEONE WHO HAS A BADGE!" other than the TSA suspecting that us uncooperative, devious, subversive, pilots would otherwise just have one guy at a time wearing the badge, and that wouldn't get them the pretty picture above.
ScottM
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iBazinga!
I know they are working at least one TSA issue already. They have mostly been focused on issues related to the flying public. To get them interested in GA we need a good court case. If someone where to get a good reason to sue over this new security directive perhaps they cold get involved. You start with them at the local level. I'll bet you contacted the national office, they are more focused on fund raising.