"Many airline pilots, flight attendants, and air traffic controllers are part of the furry community." - Senator Tommy Tuberville, R-AL

[Ed Haywood]

Seems to me that when you separate from service, whether by discharge, resigning commission prior to 20 years, or retirement, you should also be released from UCMJ and your branch’s regulations. They got your prime decades of life and enormous sacrifice. They can pull a Maverick and let it go. The only reason that DoD would restrict retirees from full 1A is because they’re scared of the truth.

This is more of a theoretical issue than an actual one. Only one retired service member has ever been charged with UCMJ violations for speech. That was in 1918, and he was found innocent. More recently, SECDEF Hegseth tried to punish Senator Kelly for making a video about resisting unlawful orders. That has so far failed abjectly in court.

In theory, a legal path exists to charge retirees for wearing their uniform at a political protest. But no retiree or veteran has ever been charged for that. Active duty personnel have been charged, which IMO is a good thing regardless of the cause.

Speaking as a retired military person, IMO the overall threat is roughly equal to being hit with a space meteor while flying.

 

[Tools]

View attachment 155419
Ron "Again, not my work" Wanttaja

NOW things are starting to add up…

 

[luvflyin]

That's counter to the military tradition. A military member leaving after 20 years doesn't actually retire. They move to an inactive status, still paid by their branch at a reduced rate. In a national emergency, they can be called back, even if they don't want to go back.

The example I always think of is british naval officers. When not at sea, such as during peacetime, they would be retained in service at half pay.

Suppose when they retire they don’t want to be called back. Could they resign their commission? Or is it to late?

 

[flyingron]

Seems to me that when you separate from service, whether by discharge, resigning commission prior to 20 years, or retirement, you should also be released from UCMJ and your branch’s regulations.

That's counter to the military tradition. A military member leaving after 20 years doesn't actually retire. They move to an inactive status, still paid by their branch at a reduced rate. In a national emergency, they can be called back, even if they don't want to go back.

The example I always think of is british naval officers. When not at sea, such as during peacetime, they would be retained in service at half pay.

British rules aren't really material here. Ateamer is correct that you are no longer subject to UCMJ and other military regulation. Bflynn is partially correct. Retirees are retirees, not some "inactive" military. It is true that those who reach full retirement (20 years) indeed can be called back involuntarily under certain specific circumstances (the rule says "of last resort," not just on the whim of the Secretary), and once done, they are subject to all the military stuff.

 

[Half Fast]

British rules aren't really material here. Ateamer is correct that you are no longer subject to UCMJ and other military regulation. Bflynn is partially correct. Retirees are retirees, not some "inactive" military. It is true that those who reach full retirement (20 years) indeed can be called back involuntarily under certain specific circumstances (the rule says "of last resort," not just on the whim of the Secretary), and once done, they are subject to all the military stuff.

The ruling from US vs Hooper (1958) seems to disagree with you.

[Those] on the retired list are not mere pensioners in any sense of the word. They form a vital segment of our national defense for their experience and mature judgment are relied upon heavily in times of emergency. The salaries they receive are not solely recompense for past services, but a means devised by Congress to assure their availability and preparedness in future contingencies. This preparedness depends as much upon their continued responsiveness to discipline as upon their continued state of physical health. Certainly, one who is authorized to wear the uniform of his country, to use the title of his grade, who is looked upon as a model of the military way of life, and who receives a salary to assure his availability, is a part of the land or naval forces

 

[jayhawk74]

When I retired from the Army Guard, as an E-7, I was given two choices. I could go directly into the Retired status or I could go into the Retired Reserve. If I went Retired Reserve I would be subject to recall until age 60, but I would continue to accrue longevity and my retired pay would be based on that longevity and the pay rates in effect on the day I became 60. If I went directly to retired status I would not be subject to recall but when I collected retired pay at age 60 it would be based on my longevity and pay rates on the day that I retired.
From talking with Retired Officers they were not given a choice. If they retired from the Reserves or National Guard they were put into the Retired Reserves and collected pay at age 60. If they were Active Duty they were put into a recall status (I'm not sure what it was officially called) and collected retainer pay until age 60 when it became retired pay.

 

[Tools]

I can see the SNL skit…

Gen Washington: And in our new great nation there will be a military in which you can serve until retirement. And then you shall retire.

Soldier: Gen, what is this “retirement”?

Gen Washington: Nobody knows…

Indeed, I moved once after getting out of the military. Got a nasty gram about not having informed them.

Turns out I was still in to some degree I didn’t even know about!

 

[Ed Haywood]

If they were Active Duty they were put into a recall status (I'm not sure what it was officially called) and collected retainer pay until age 60 when it became retired pay.

I have been a retired officer for 18 years and have never heard of this. I don't think it's a thing.

 

[hindsight2020]

y'all are mixing retirement authorities. Reserve retirement vs active retirement authorizations. Different USC chapters/rules. Active retirees not familiar with the Reserve component will largely not be aware of the nuances of the latter. Digressing.

The only point I was attempting to raise on that front was to remind the gallery that reserve-retirement rertirees are not threatened by the UCMJ in civil speech the way active retirees are. It's goofy and anachronistic, as there is no material difference between the two when it comes to the nature and characterization of said Service to the Country. It's so ridiculous I could literally switch retirements at 60 (or even sooner, due to some changes in rules too inside-baseball for this thread) and all of a sudden I'm not a "criminal" deserving of retirement forfeiture anymore, for exercising my 1A as a retiree during times of reprisal-prone administrations.

I stipulate the point about "it's never been successful", but that's in the same vein as saying "experimental builder has never been successfully sued". Beyond my cursory "hope's not a plan" retort, I just object to the legal inconsistency between the two retirements in the first place. And since it has become a point of weaponization in present circumstances, the past is just that, the past. It's about time the legal framework be updated to reflect said realities.

Fact is they know they couldn't staff the base gym, let alone the Total Force, if they came after veterans too hard on this italian meatball censorship stuff. They also know the non-retiree veteran population has the economies of scale to push back. But spare me the "officer and a gentleman" stuff about picking on a minority group (commissioned O active retiree) just because it's an easy low economies-of-scale "captive audience" to punch down on. 1A is 1A, we fight for all or we fight for none. All that said, yes, Sen. Kellys current legal success against this attempt at financially intimidating active retirees is confidence-inspiring.

 

[jayhawk74]

I have been a retired officer for 18 years and have never heard of this. I don't think it's a thing.

As I said I retired from the Army Guard as Enlisted so I know that I was offered a choice between immediate Retired Status and a transfer to Retired Reserve. As for the officer retirement I just know what I was told by pilots that I flew with t the Airline. Maybe the explained it to me wrong.

 

[wilkersk]

I have been a retired officer for 18 years and have never heard of this. I don't think it's a thing.

Don't know how it is now. Too many things have changed. But back when I left active duty Navy as a Chief Petty Officer (E-7) with 22 years active, enlisted members were transferred to "fleet Reserve" status until age 60 (IIRC). Officers completing 20 or more years of active service were transferred to the retired list.

The Fleet Reserve had nothing to do with active or inactive reserve duty. It was just a pool of senior enlisted retirees that were recallable until age 60, I believe.

 

[Albany Tom]

So I'm wondering, if one of you retired military guys goes to some little country in the Caribbean, gets a little drunk, starts a fight and long story short accidentally takes over the country, does that mean you can plant a flag and we've got a new territory? Or if it goes sideways, you can call in an airstrike?

Not suggesting anyone do that, but it could be a decent plot for a movie.

Or maybe that's what really happened with Grenada? A bunch of Navy guys were on leave and a fight started, and suddenly we're at war? I think I'm going to start that rumor. Goofier things have happened.

 

[Tom J]

Don't know how it is now. Too many things have changed. But back when I left active duty Navy as a Chief Petty Officer (E-7) with 22 years active, enlisted members were transferred to "fleet Reserve" status until age 60 (IIRC). Officers completing 20 or more years of active service were transferred to the retired list.

The Fleet Reserve had nothing to do with active or inactive reserve duty. It was just a pool of senior enlisted retirees that were recallable until age 60, I believe.

Fleet reserve now, retired in 2022 E9, ends when the retiree would have achieved 30 yrs, not age based. I punched at 30 yrs, so transferred directly to the retired list.

 

[wanttaja]

Ron Wanttaja

 

[Zborder]

Gotta give props to the unsung hero in his staff ranks that trolled this doddering fool into spouting such idiocy.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Making your football coach your Senator is the most Alabama thing ever.

 

[ateamer]

Gotta give props to the unsung hero in his staff ranks that trolled this doddering fool into spouting such idiocy.

As one podcaster put it “yeah, let’s not give Papaw the internet anymore.”

 

[luvflyin]

Making your football coach your Senator is the most Alabama thing ever.

And a player the most Georgia thing ever.

 

[hindsight2020]

Gotta give props to the unsung hero in his staff ranks that trolled this doddering fool into spouting such idiocy.

Don't infantilize them. They're motivated and cunning, and the injury they seek to impart is purpose-driven, it's not accidental. Getting wrapped up around the flavoring of the antics is a distraction.

yes, full disclosure, that *person [*they threaten me with article 88 if I dare speak with inflection, so not yet] delayed my promotion for political posturing years ago, alongside thousands of my fellow field grade officers. That's not new btw, it's a common shtick among these unearned command types. Digressing.

 

[Ed Haywood]

And a player the most Georgia thing ever.

But Alabama succeeded.

 

[Rockymountain]

I encountered an actual furry in a public setting once. That was just… weird. Really weird.

Just once? Tell me you have never been to Portland or Seattle without telling me you have never been there

 

[wanttaja]

Just once? Tell me you have never been to Portland or Seattle without telling me you have never been there

I've lived in both Portland and Seattle, and have only seen one furry.

In a mirror.

Ron "Maybe they've been taken out by a Jewish Space Laser" Wanttaja

 

[Half Fast]

Digressing.

You?! Perish the thought!

 

[DaleB]

Just once? Tell me you have never been to Portland or Seattle without telling me you have never been there

I have actually been to Portland... spent a week or two teaching a class out in Beaverton and drove in to check out Portland a couple times. This was, I expect, pre-furry; it must have been '85-'86 or so. I've only passed through the Seattle airport a few times, and kind of hope to keep it that way.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Just once? Tell me you have never been to Portland or Seattle without telling me you have never been there

I've been to both places several times without seeing a furry. I did once see Darth Vader on a unicycle playing a flaming bagpipe in Portland. No joke, no drugs, and no drinking! It was near that area with all the food trucks.

Jack "Keep Portland weird!"

 

[wanttaja]

I moved to Portland from the Seattle area a year ago; as a old, white, Reagan-era Republican and veteran, gotta say I like it. Nice and laid back.

Liked Seattle, too, though.

Ron "My feet are tender since they got webbed" Wanttaja

 

[luvflyin]

I moved to Portland from the Seattle area a year ago; as a old, white, Reagan-era Republican and veteran, gotta say I like it. Nice and laid back.

Liked Seattle, too, though.

Ron "My feet are tender since they got webbed" Wanttaja

Why’d ya move?

 

[AV8R_87]

Why’d ya move?

He was getting furry.

 

[kyleb]

He was getting furry.

Maybe it was just mildew?

 

[wanttaja]

Why’d ya move?

Wife wanted to move closer to her remaining family. We were in a two-story house, and I'm getting to the age where I don't want to be going up and down stairs all day. As long as we were moving, we moved somewhere where we didn't have to drive 180 miles for holidays.

Biggest downside is that we'd lived within five minutes of the airport before, and now I have a 40-minute drive. Also, lost my entire support structure...had a hard time finding an A&P for my condition inspection.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[wanttaja]

He was getting furry.

Just ejecta from the wife's batch of cats.

Ron "Sure, if you get that damn cat out of the way" Wanttaja

 

[luvflyin]

Wife wanted to move closer to her remaining family. We were in a two-story house, and I'm getting to the age where I don't want to be going up and down stairs all day. As long as we were moving, we moved somewhere where we didn't have to drive 180 miles for holidays.

Biggest downside is that we'd lived within five minutes of the airport before, and now I have a 40-minute drive. Also, lost my entire support structure...had a hard time finding an A&P for my condition inspection.

Ron Wanttaja

I feel your pain with the long drive to the airport. I had my plane at Starks for awhile when I was living in Vancouver.

 

[AV8R_87]

Biggest downside is that we'd lived within five minutes of the airport before, and now I have a 40-minute drive.

I've been thinking about a powered parachute or a gyrocopter to get to the airport faster. Would be a perfect use case scenario for an EVTOL when they become available and affordable (by aviation standards).

 

[hindsight2020]

(long drive to airplane) usually a gateway to quitting, especially for non-traveling airplanes if we're being honest. Seasons of life and all that jazz.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Just once? Tell me you have never been to Portland or Seattle without telling me you have never been there

Have you?

I have relatives in both, and I've been to both multiple times in the last several years, and I have seen zero furries.

Plenty of homeless people, some of them stark naked, but no furries.

 

[Bill]

(long drive to airplane) usually a gateway to quitting, especially for non-traveling airplanes if we're being honest. Seasons of life and all that jazz.

About where I’m at. We used to live 10min each way from the airport, and life was easy. Quick evening flight or weekend flight? East peasy.

Now we’re 45min one way on a good day, 60min on a bad day. Quick evening flight? Nope, not fighting rush hour traffic. Pretty much any day sucks as the interstate is stop and go by noon most days including weekend days. Sucks the fun right out.

 

[SoonerAviator]

And a player the most Georgia thing ever.

View attachment 155788

Oklahoma had Jack Mildren as a Lt Governor and Steve Largent as a US Representative, both of football fame.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Quite a few football players have gone into politics. At least 2 made it to the top of the heap.

 

[ateamer]

Quite a few football players have gone into politics. At least 2 made it to the top of the heap.

View attachment 155844

View attachment 155845

Jack Kemp got close - just couldn’t get that first down he needed to get into the Red Zone.

 

[Albany Tom]

Wasn't there a guy who said he played football, and was on the team, but didn't get sent in to play, and everybody else on the boat, er I mean team, said he was a jerk and it cost him the election? I may be mixing my stories up a bit.

But as to this guy, and the thought that someone talks like he's clueless but really is a genius with evil intentions, in most of my experience people like that really are just clueless, but also with evil intentions. And I bet anyone that was ever on a boat with him didn't like him, either.