Malaysian Airliner missing?

wsuffa said:
Hmmm...

<tin foil hat on>So how far to the middle east? Or Somalia?<tin foil hat off>:dunno::dunno:
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I doesn't even have to be there - it just has to be someplace where a rogue group can get the airplane in, hide it, convert it, and fly it back out without appearing on anyones radar (figuratively and literally). That location could physically be on just about any country as long as it meets the "radar black hole" definition, we have some places in the middle of the US that come close to that, I would assume there are plenty locations within 777 range of the disappearance that they could go and not be noticed.
 
Piloto said:
...On Air France 447 that crashed in the middle of the Atlantic debris was found the following day...
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Some, but although a very large chunk of the aircraft (the vertical stab) was floating on the surface of the water it took another five days before anyone saw it. The ocean is just far more vast than people realize and even a big plane like a triple seven is just a tiny spec out there.
 
What we need to be ready for are the "solutions."

I guarantee that the "fix" will be that all aircraft have to always reliably broadcast position. It'll be a speed up of ADS-B out mandate for all aircraft and the $billions it take for satellites to cover the planet to receive the data.

Consider that the "fix" after allowing the 9/11 dudes to blatantly carry razor blades onto an airliner in full view of all was to strip search every passenger thereafter looking for plastic knives and nail clippers.

I guarantee that the "fix" to the lost MA370 will be to always know where aircraft are, with not a word about keeping 777s in the air.
 
Blockbuster fiction scenario: Malaccan pirates landed it under cover of darkness at Langkawi (LGK/WMKL), hid it in the huge empty Malaysian Air Show exhibition hall and will ransom PAX.
 
Henning said:
That whole part of the world, the seas are just one huge floating debris field.
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I've always wondered about this. Do shipping containers ever fall off of ships, and if they do, do they ever float, causing what I perceive would be a hazard to ships?
 
Not sure I would buy it .... but:

Could comeone have scud run a 777-200 at 100-200 feet over the ocean to some off-the-grid strip in SE Asia?

Has anyone said anything about anyone on board having received pilot training?
 
wsuffa said:
Hmmm...

<tin foil hat on>So how far to the middle east? Or Somalia?<tin foil hat off>:dunno::dunno:
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CapHenning.jpg
 
They flew over an island with a magnetic source that brought the plane down. There are 48 survivors and they are all on the beach trying to figure out why John Locke can walk again.


Think "LOST".


Seriously I can't believe we haven't found anything yet.
 
From: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/b777-pilot-contacted-mh370-before-it-vanished-says-there-was-radio-interfer
A Boeing 777 pilot found "interference" when he was asked by Vietnamese air control to contact flight MH370 before the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200ER vanished from the air.

The captain, who was flying 30 minutes ahead of MH370, told the New Sunday Times that his Narita-bound plane was in Vietnamese airspace when he was asked to use his plane's emergency frequency to contact MH370 as air traffic control had lost contact.

"We managed to establish contact with MH370 just after 1.30am and asked them if they have transferred into Vietnamese airspace.

"The voice on the other side could have been either Captain Zaharie (Ahmad Shah, 53) or Fariq (Abdul Hamid, 27), but I was sure it was the co-pilot.

"There were a lot of interference... static... but I heard mumbling from the other end.

"That was the last time we heard from them, as we lost the connection," he was quoted as saying by the New Sunday Times.
​
 
WBI Flyer said:
Not sure I would buy it .... but:

Could comeone have scud run a 777-200 at 100-200 feet over the ocean to some off-the-grid strip in SE Asia?

Has anyone said anything about anyone on board having received pilot training?
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As someone else said far earlier in this thread: It's possible but they wouldn't make it very far 'cause the fuel burn would be really ugly at low altitudes.
 
nddons said:
I've always wondered about this. Do shipping containers ever fall off of ships, and if they do, do they ever float, causing what I perceive would be a hazard to ships?
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Latest Robert Redford movie "All Is Lost" He wakes up to find a half submerged shipping container full of sneakers knocking a big hole in the side of his sailboat and that's just the beginning of his troubles.
 
loss of pressuraization with massive failure of safety systems? ... aircraft's data/safety system out to lunch & oxygen deprived pilots?
 
Maybe terrorists stole the cloaking device from Captain Kirk.
 
timwinters said:
As someone else said far earlier in this thread: It's possible but they wouldn't make it very far 'cause the fuel burn would be really ugly at low altitudes.
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so... poor planning or poor knowledg of physics dooms a hijack attempt... they never make the intended destination, ditch... lost and way off course, sink... and those behind the "attack" "close the book" so as not to broadcast a failure?

Obviously I'm bored...whatever it is... I hate it for the families, and I cannot believe "we" have completely lost this plane and its passengers.
 
nddons said:
I've always wondered about this. Do shipping containers ever fall off of ships, and if they do, do they ever float, causing what I perceive would be a hazard to ships?
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Yes, they do occasionally fall off. That is why the shipping companies charge more to ship below deck.

As far as how much of a hazard, it depends on the size of ship that rubs into one. Usually when they do fall off in a large number, a NOTMAR will go out.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Yes, they do occasionally fall off. That is why the shipping companies charge more to ship below deck.

As far as how much of a hazard, it depends on the size of ship that rubs into one. Usually when they do fall off in a large number, a NOTMAR will go out.
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Yep, I used to work in the industry. When we were expecting boxes at the port that didn't show, pictures of them floating somewhere in the Atlantic would follow.
 
I'm thinking they intentionally shut off the transponder and avoided communications because they had an embarrassing situation they didn't want to be discovered.

However before they could correct their "wrong" things got out of control.
 
WBI Flyer said:
loss of pressuraization with massive failure of safety systems? ... aircraft's data/safety system out to lunch & oxygen deprived pilots?
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This is one theory being thrown around at the moment based on the proposed AD regarding the SATCOM antenna mount. The concern with the AD was fuselage cracking around the mount. Someone (I have zero insight as to their credibility) was claiming that the cracking could have caused a slow leak of the pressure vessel rendering folks onboard unconscious Payne Stewart style.

I have no idea how feasible that scenario is.
 
Badger said:
I'm thinking they intentionally shut off the transponder and avoided communications because they had an embarrassing situation they didn't want to be discovered.



However before they could correct their "wrong" things got out of control.
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Could be a situation like the Jet Blue Captain that went nuts 'this plane's not going to Vegas'. Except in this case, perhaps the junior FO didn't step in and stop him.

At this point almost anything is possible.
 
Has anyone checked to see if the 777 owners have been making their payments. Who knows this maybe an aircraft repossession.
 
Why can't people accept the possibility that there was some sort of major system failure, they either couldn't or didn't make a radio call (because is that really the first thing you're going to do, call someone on the ground who can't possibly be of any assistance with the current dilemma?) Or that an airliner could disappear over an ocean in the middle of the night.

Just because they haven't found anything yet doesn't mean it has disappeared without a trace. I remember when Steve Fossett disappeared, it was all over the news and everybody was looking for him. I went on Google Earth and zoomed in on the airport he left from to the point where you could just barely make out the shape of an airplane and started panning around. It became evident that it was like trying to find a needle on a football field looking through a straw. No, I didn't expect he'd be on Google Earth, just wanted to simulate what searching for a small plane would be like over a large territory like that.

We are deceived into thinking the Earth is much smaller than it actually is and that we are much bigger than we actually are in relation. It is completely conceivable that an airliner could disappear over a vast unpopulated area like this.
 
Silvaire said:
Why can't people accept the possibility that there was some sort of major system failure, they either couldn't or didn't make a radio call (because is that really the first thing you're going to do, call someone on the ground who can't possibly be of any assistance with the current dilemma?) Or that an airliner could disappear over an ocean in the middle of the night.

Just because they haven't found anything yet doesn't mean it has disappeared without a trace. I remember when Steve Fossett disappeared, it was all over the news and everybody was looking for him. I went on Google Earth and zoomed in on the airport he left from to the point where you could just barely make out the shape of an airplane and started panning around. It became evident that it was like trying to find a needle on a football field looking through a straw. No, I didn't expect he'd be on Google Earth, just wanted to simulate what searching for a small plane would be like over a large territory like that.

We are deceived into thinking the Earth is much smaller than it actually is and that we are much bigger than we actually are in relation. It is completely conceivable that an airliner could disappear over a vast unpopulated area like this.
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That is a wonderful possibility. It is accepted.. and even the most probably cause. It is not; however, definitive,...

As far as comparisons: This airliner... its mission and Fossett's joyride have a massively different scope of responsibility and oversight.
 
Silvaire said:
Why can't people accept the possibility that there was some sort of major system failure, they either couldn't or didn't make a radio call (because is that really the first thing you're going to do, call someone on the ground who can't possibly be of any assistance with the current dilemma?) Or that an airliner could disappear over an ocean in the middle of the night.
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I think it is accepted - but it's also a very distinct possibility that it was not a systems failure at all - can you accept that?

The amount of evidence pointing to a major systems failure has not changed since the beginning of the event, but the amount of evidence pointing to another cause has continued to come forth and is still growing. CNN/others are now reporting that the Malaysian military radar tracked the plane as it turned around and flew completely back over Malaysia and over the west coast before they lost the track.
 
Silvaire said:
Why can't people accept the possibility that there was some sort of major system failure, they either couldn't or didn't make a radio call (because is that really the first thing you're going to do, call someone on the ground who can't possibly be of any assistance with the current dilemma?) Or that an airliner could disappear over an ocean in the middle of the night.



Just because they haven't found anything yet doesn't mean it has disappeared without a trace. I remember when Steve Fossett disappeared, it was all over the news and everybody was looking for him. I went on Google Earth and zoomed in on the airport he left from to the point where you could just barely make out the shape of an airplane and started panning around. It became evident that it was like trying to find a needle on a football field looking through a straw. No, I didn't expect he'd be on Google Earth, just wanted to simulate what searching for a small plane would be like over a large territory like that.



We are deceived into thinking the Earth is much smaller than it actually is and that we are much bigger than we actually are in relation. It is completely conceivable that an airliner could disappear over a vast unpopulated area like this.
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No one is necessarily saying that isn't what happened, just pointing out that if it did, it would be unprecedented.

Also, major/total system failure doesn't quite jive with the evidence that has been released so far...that the aircraft changed course and continued for apparently some time to the west.

And comparing a 777 disappearing to Steve Faucet in a light airplane VFR is apples and oranges.
 
Walt said:
Has anyone checked to see if the 777 owners have been making their payments. Who knows this maybe an aircraft repossession.
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I'll tune into the Discovery Channel to see if it shows up in Ohio. I'll let you guys know what I find out. ;)

This would be Nick Popovich's finest repo yet. :)
 
as far as real-time tracking from an "offline source" in the aircraft. I am guessing that this episode is the tipping point. Implementation will being after lobbying attempts to block it fail,... and the price of admission will bump up a bit.
 
Silvaire said:
Why can't people accept the possibility that there was some sort of major system failure, they either couldn't or didn't make a radio call (because is that really the first thing you're going to do, call someone on the ground who can't possibly be of any assistance with the current dilemma?) Or that an airliner could disappear over an ocean in the middle of the night.
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It's certainly likely, but in the absence of facts people speculate. ANd in keeping with what the homeland security & news media have trained us to do, the most "out there but possible" fearful theories get the most attention. 9/11 taught us that things we never thought would happen really could happen. Folks want to draw parallels to AF447, the 9/11 cut-off of communications, conspiracy theories, and whatnot.

Personally, I favor the Rod Serling theories, but that's just the twilight zone for you.

Seriously, though, some of the news reports have included a tidbit about another airliner asked to relay by ATC. Supposedly they called on Guard and received an answer with a lot of static and muffled voices. Coupled with the military radar reports, it certainly raises more questions than it answers.
 
Silvaire said:
Why can't people accept the possibility that there was some sort of major system failure,
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I can accept that but there are other equally probable theories, specially considering the fact that (allegedly) this aircraft turned 90 deg away from its intended course (don't tell me their whiskey compass failed too) and continued for another 300 nm or more. Frankly at this point nothing can be excluded hence 'accepting' one particular chain of events makes no sense.
 
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Silvaire said:
We are deceived into thinking the Earth is much smaller than it actually is and that we are much bigger than we actually are in relation. It is completely conceivable that an airliner could disappear over a vast unpopulated area like this.
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I agree.
 
wsuffa said:
It's certainly likely, but in the absence of facts people speculate. ANd in keeping with what the homeland security & news media have trained us to do, the most "out there but possible" fearful theories get the most attention. 9/11 taught us that things we never thought would happen really could happen. Folks want to draw parallels to AF447, the 9/11 cut-off of communications, conspiracy theories, and whatnot.

Personally, I favor the Rod Serling theories, but that's just the twilight zone for you.

Seriously, though, some of the news reports have included a tidbit about another airliner asked to relay by ATC. Supposedly they called on Guard and received an answer with a lot of static and muffled voices. Coupled with the military radar reports, it certainly raises more questions than it answers.
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Nothing that happened 9/11 was very sophisticated or even "interesting" from a security perspective. Certainly nothing comparable to some of the wacky theories in this thread like flying an airliner at wave top height to a secret evil lair.
 
Lindberg said:
Nothing that happened 9/11 was very sophisticated or even "interesting" from a security perspective. Certainly nothing comparable to some of the wacky theories in this thread like flying an airliner at wave top height to a secret evil lair.
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I think I know where they are keeping it

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