Malaysian Airliner missing?

Rolls Royce engines were on this 777, just like on the 777 that crash landed in 2008 at Heathrow. The Heathrow crash was attributed to engine power loss due to icing. Both engines suffered lost power and the plane landed short of the runway.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/formal_reports/1_2010_g_ymmm.cfm

So here's my idea. Is it possible that the Malaysian 777 also had icing in its fuel lines? And then glided until they ditched and sank without ever breaking up to leave a debris field?
 
NoHeat said:
Rolls Royce engines were on this 777, just like on the 777 that crash landed in 2008 at Heathrow. The Heathrow crash was attributed to engine power loss due to icing. Both engines suffered lost power and the plane landed short of the runway.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/formal_reports/1_2010_g_ymmm.cfm

So here's my idea. Is it possible that the Malaysian 777 also had icing in its fuel lines? And then glided until they ditched and sank without ever breaking up to leave a debris field?
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without the crew saying a word on the radio and without the plane itself communicating status to the airline mx people ? Not a chance
 
Well, if the pilots devoted their efforts to aviate and navigate, along with troubleshooting, before bothering to communicate.

Same could apply to most scenarios for this flight that do not involve a sudden catastrophe or hijacking, not just fuel line icing.
 
JHW said:
without the crew saying a word on the radio and without the plane itself communicating status to the airline mx people ? Not a chance
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Isn't there a cite somewhere in this thread that they were in a 100NM long "communications black hole"?

One would think, though, that other planes in the area might have heard something.
 
olasek said:
Debris has really nothing to do with water depth.
If you don't have any floating debris the difficult task becomes almost impossible.
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That whole part of the world, the seas are just one huge floating debris field.
 
NoHeat said:
Rolls Royce engines were on this 777, just like on the 777 that crash landed in 2008 at Heathrow. The Heathrow crash was attributed to engine power loss due to icing. Both engines suffered lost power and the plane landed short of the runway.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/formal_reports/1_2010_g_ymmm.cfm

So here's my idea. Is it possible that the Malaysian 777 also had icing in its fuel lines? And then glided until they ditched and sank without ever breaking up to leave a debris field?
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You still would have elec power for radios, xpdr and ACARS in such a scenario, they would have been able to get the word out.
 
timwinters said:
Isn't there a cite somewhere in this thread that they were in a 100NM long "communications black hole"?

One would think, though, that other planes in the area might have heard something.
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I'd bet the plane's data com is by satellite
 
timwinters said:
Isn't there a cite somewhere in this thread that they were in a 100NM long "communications black hole"?



One would think, though, that other planes in the area might have heard something.
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I don't believe it was a complete black hole. Just out of VHF range
 
A thought I had was could the plane have been "landed" on the water than sank as basically one piece very quickly. I am imagining a situation similar to the landing on the Hudson river a few years back, and that plane to did not break apart, and was sinking. You get a catastrophic event that makes the plane land-able, but unable. The pilot manages to get it down, but it sinks rapidly, possibly partially breaking up in a few large pieces, not allowing it any significant floating time leaving little evidence. Maybe a stretch, because people would likely have been able to get in rafts then, but a different idea.
 
drotto said:
A thought I had was could the plane have been "landed" on the water than sank as basically one piece very quickly. I am imagining a situation similar to the landing on the Hudson river a few years back, and that plane to did not break apart, and was sinking. You get a catastrophic event that makes the plane land-able, but unable. The pilot manages to get it down, but it sinks rapidly, possibly partially breaking up in a few large pieces, not allowing it any significant floating time leaving little evidence. Maybe a stretch, because people would likely have been able to get in rafts then, but a different idea.
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Yes, but that scenario brings us back to a long controlled glide with plenty of time to get a message out either via radio, 7700 on the xpdr and HF or SAT link on the ACARS.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Yes, but that scenario brings us back to a long controlled glide with plenty of time to get a message out either via radio, 7700 on the xpdr and HF or SAT link on the ACARS.
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True, should have thought about that. My explanation would require massive systems/electrical failure to make it work, and even then be a stretch.
 
A former NTSB head said yesterday that there is no reason why the black boxes in today's commercial aircraft aren't data linked and transmitting, in real time, at least a dozen of the most critical flight parameters.

Well, except cost.

Seems to be an idea long overdue...on the surface at least. Admittedly, I haven't scrutinized the idea at all.
 
Just read something on the PPW forum that discusses a 2013 proposed AD involving the SATCOM antenna attachment and possible slow cabin depressurization.
 
I am reminded of the 1996 ValueJet crash into the Everglades.

30957047E.jpg


More photos here:

http://miamiheraldstore.mycapture.c...image=30957037&event=1055528&CategoryID=58641

I was a flight instructor in S FL at the time, and seeing an airliner swallowed up like that was quite spooky.
 
Tmpendergrass said:
I'm sure this conversation is being had very seriously at the FBI, CIA, etc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You can bet on that.... Already 9000 views to this thread... And you know it all ain't POA members...:no::no::rolleyes:
 
NoHeat said:
Is it possible that the Malaysian 777 also had icing in its fuel lines?
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Highly unlikely BECAUSE . . .

It takes a long time to cool the fuel from the temperature it was when it came out of the fuel farm. In the case of the Heathrow incident, the aircraft was in really cold air for a very long time. It is a long way from Beijing to London.

I have been out of touch all of the last 5 days so I haven't been able to follow this very closely, but from what little I have seen, the airplane disappeared over a relatively short period of time. From cruise altitude a relatively lightly loaded airplane can glide a surprisingly long way. That does not fit the scenario.

And then glided until they ditched and sank without ever breaking up to leave a debris field?
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Well, recent history has proven that a plane can ditch and remain intact. Even if it didn't, if the airplane touched down in a controlled fashion, there would have been survivors. I would think there would have been some sighting of them by now.
 
timwinters said:
Isn't there a cite somewhere in this thread that they were in a 100NM long "communications black hole"?
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Well, there are several ways to communicate. One is by HF which is the most unreliable, another is satellite communications, which is better. What makes them unreliable is atmospheric conditions. Not sure what could cause a chronic "black hole".

One would think, though, that other planes in the area might have heard something.
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There is that.
 
jspilot said:
So just playing this out a bit and realizing this is all speculation( something I naturally detest) if the plane goes missing over a no radar zone, and has 100nm area in which to operate, virtually unnoticeable and makes a, what appears to be a controlled 180 degree turn before losing contact, does anyone else think all of this is rather to coincidental? So are there many airports in this 100nm radar gap in which the plane may have landed, unloaded all the passengers and then taken back off to a destination unknown? Purely guessing here so excuse any ignorance that may be exposed in this post.
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Hmmm... If it was in a NO RADAR zone.... How did they know it made a 180 degree controlled turn...:confused::confused:...:idea:...
 
timwinters said:
A former NTSB head said yesterday that there is no reason why the black boxes in today's commercial aircraft aren't data linked and transmitting, in real time, at least a dozen of the most critical flight parameters.

Well, except cost.

Seems to be an idea long overdue...on the surface at least. Admittedly, I haven't scrutinized the idea at all.
Click to expand...

For what it is worth, I think at least SOME of that IS happening currently. I have gotten messages from our maintenance people in flight asking about a problem they saw that we had no indication of. So I know they have the ability to monitor some performance parameters in real or near real time.
 
N801BH said:
Hmmm... If it was in a NO RADAR zone.... How did they know it made a 180 degree controlled turn...:confused::confused:...:idea:...
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Piecing together military radar feeds like I mentioned earlier.

This is getting even more bizarre...here the Malaysian military is saying they have a radar track of the airplane turning west toward the Strait of a Malacca with its Xpdr off.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA2701720140311?irpc=932

Things that make you go hmmm.

I suspect there is even more info that hasn't been shared yet.
 
The head if Interpol stated this morning:

"The more data we receive, the less likely it appears that this was a terrorist event."

(Or something to that effect)
 
Greg Bockelman said:
For what it is worth, I think at least SOME of that IS happening currently. I have gotten messages from our maintenance people in flight asking about a problem they saw that we had no indication of. So I know they have the ability to monitor some performance parameters in real or near real time.
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Apparently Boeing offers an option on the 777 that communicates aircraft 'health' automatically, but that option was not installed on the accident airplane.
 
timwinters said:
The head if Interpol stated this morning:



"The more data we receive, the less likely it appears that this was a terrorist event."



(Or something to that effect)
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Which means either:

A. It is indeed a non- terrorist event

Or

B. It is a terrorist event sooo bad they don't want anyone freaking our just yet.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Piecing together military radar feeds like I mentioned earlier.

This is getting even more bizarre...here the Malaysian military is saying they have a radar track of the airplane turning west toward the Strait of a Malacca with its Xpdr off.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA2701720140311?irpc=932

Things that make you go hmmm.

I suspect there is even more info that hasn't been shared yet.
Click to expand...


About 2 days ago?? One of the maps provided showed a search area to the west of Malaysia, now we know why. Apparently it made it all the way back over Malaysia and into the body of water on the other side before they lost it. From the article, can't tell if it vanished suddenly from radar or just went out of range.
 
dell30rb said:
About 2 days ago?? One of the maps provided showed a search area to the west of Malaysia, now we know why. Apparently it made it all the way back over Malaysia and into the body of water on the other side before they lost it. From the article, can't tell if it vanished suddenly from radar or just went out of range.
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Yes, very strange. Almost like a crime story. Like they have more info than they are giving out right now.
 
Strangest commercial airline "crash" (I assume it crashed), I can remember in recent history.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Apparently Boeing offers an option on the 777 that communicates aircraft 'health' automatically, but that option was not installed on the accident airplane.
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Tinfoil mode engaged. If you were going to steal an airliner out of the air you'd do well to pick one without that option and pluck it from a communication black hole(to some extent.) Plain old incompetence is usually the answer to these things, but hmmm.
 
With no debris found this leads to hijacking. On Air France 447 that crashed in the middle of the Atlantic debris was found the following day. And the Air France plane hit the water in one piece making a smaller debris footprint. With no signs of a crash it could means the passengers could still be alive anywhere in the world. By this time a B777 could be in Cuba or any remote location where the hijackers have friends. I would call for a worldwide search. If the hijackers have not called for a ransom it could very well mean the B777 is intended for a massive terrorist attack worst than 911.

Jose
 
A) In flight explosion or structural failure
Flying around for hundreds of miles with no radio comms and transponder makes this less likely. That and both scenarios leave a large debris field which would be easier to spot.

B ) Terrorists crashed it
Hijacked the plane and turned off the radio/comm/transponder equipment. Were possibly going to navigate for and crash the plane into some target of value. Botched the job, and crashed into the ocean somewhere. A high speed impact would leave a debris field in a concentrated area. The world is a big place, maybe it has not been spotted yet.

C) Terrorists stole it.
Seems unlikely but the airplane had the range to fly to any number of places in Africa or the Middle East. A long over water route would keep it out of land based radar range of India or Sri Lanka. Many of the countries it might fly near probably don't run a tight ship when it comes to radar, they didn't take notice of the airliner and the radar imagery is not recorded where they can pull tapes and look back several days. Who knows why anyone would steal an airliner full of people. Maybe it will show up in a few days with a bunch of bombs strapped to it and everyone held for ransom.

D) Fire in a critical area
One 777 already had a bad cockpit fire (on the ground). Perhaps something happened that rendered the avionics useless and crippled the plane. The crew tried to navigate visually back to Malaysia and ended up ditching somewhere far away from where they were expected to be. Think Cast Away.

If a ditching didn't go well it could injure or kill most of the people on board, but still leave the plane sinking to the bottom in mostly one piece. However, we know they flew at least an hour after comms ceased, i'd think a battery powered ELT could have been activated.

F) Crew went nuts or joined Al-Qaeda.
It's happened before (EgyptAir) a crew member went suicidal and killed everyone. But in this case I wouldn't expect the transponders were turned off and the plane flown several hundred miles. Nothing we have seen about the pilot or co-pilot suggest they had mental issues or were connected to terrorists.
 
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If you know of anyone that needs a flying job there is a new budget airline startup flying a B-777.:D
 
Piloto said:
By this time a B777 could be in Cuba or any remote location where the hijackers have friends.
Jose
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I suppose. But I would think that if a B777 landed unscheduled at an airport, taxied up to the FBO, and asked for 180,000 lbs of Jet A, someone might notice that.

"Hey, do you guys take Airboss? No? Ok, just put it on my Amex."
 
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PPC1052 said:
I suppose. But I would think that if a B777 landed unscheduled at an airport, taxied up to the FBO, and asked for 180,000 lbs of Jet A, someone might notice that.
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That would be one HAPPY FBO owner...;).....:D
 
dell30rb said:
A) In flight explosion or structural failure
B ) Terrorists crashed it
C) Terrorists stole it.
D) Fire in a critical area
F) Crew went nuts or joined Al-Qaeda.
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What about alien abduction or wormhole in time :D
 
Fearless Tower said:
Piecing together military radar feeds like I mentioned earlier.

This is getting even more bizarre...here the Malaysian military is saying they have a radar track of the airplane turning west toward the Strait of a Malacca with its Xpdr off.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA2701720140311?irpc=932

Things that make you go hmmm.

I suspect there is even more info that hasn't been shared yet.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...

<tin foil hat on>So how far to the middle east? Or Somalia?<tin foil hat off>:dunno::dunno:
 
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