Malaysian Airliner missing?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by N747JB, Mar 7, 2014.

  1. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach

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    I agree the small increase above 10,000 is not statistically significant, but it certainly does not go down.

    I can't positively cite a source off hand (i've heard this multiple places) but pretty sure I read it in Richard Collins's book "The Next Hour"
     
  2. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    "The Killing Zone"?

    [​IMG]
     
  3. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    UFO. "Beam me up, Scotty!" :D
     
  4. Piloto

    Piloto Line Up and Wait

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    This B777 was simply hijacked and flown 3,000nm away from the search area. No evidence of debris or ELT signal suggest hijacking. The sudden loss of transponder signal is due to turning it off. .

    By this time a B777 could be anywhere in the world inside a remote hangar or disguised shelter. Most likely all passengers still alive and well.

    Hope the above is the case

    José
     
  5. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    How are the error bars defined on that particular plot?
     
  6. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Ya know.....

    I am having the exact same thoughts...:idea:.....:confused:
     
  7. ClimbnSink

    ClimbnSink Ejection Handle Pulled

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    One way to turn 2 stolen passports into 237 stolen passports... Or this airplane is going to pop up and fly into a building somewhere.
     
  8. acrophile

    acrophile Line Up and Wait

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    Does it demonstrate an increased risk per hour of flight time for pilots whose total flight time is in the "zone"? Or does it talk about risk per year instead? Those measures lead to very different conclusions as to the effect of experience on safety.
     
  9. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    This is reminding me of a Twilight Zone episode. Maybe they are trying to land at Kai Tek 30 years ago...
     
  10. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Or "Lost".

    We can only hope.
     
  11. airguy

    airguy Cleared for Takeoff

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    There's enough radar surveillance in that part of the world, they would have left a primary return track unless/until they dropped down to wave-top height - in which case the fuel burn is ugly enough they won't be going too far.
     
  12. Piloto

    Piloto Line Up and Wait

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    Not over water. With primary radar only it would be hard to differentiate MH370 from other traffic in the area. It could very well be flying on the same corridor as other traffic and blend in.

    José
     
  13. frfly172

    frfly172 Final Approach

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    How would you hide a hi jacked airliner?
     
  14. eman1200

    eman1200 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    and W H Y would you hide a hijacked airliner?!?!?
     
  15. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yes and no. There is most likely radar paint of the aircraft on a tape somewhere. If not civil, then military. It just takes time to gather the various tapes (some of which may still be at sea) and correlate it all to get a better picture.
     
  16. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Same way you hide a hijacked oil tanker or container ship, right in plain view.
     
  17. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Does that part of the world use compatible cell phone technology? If it had been hijacked and taken somewhere, as soon as it reached cell tower range we probably would have started hearing from the pax (unless pax were/are unable to call).
     
  18. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I get better cell phone reception over there, than over here.
     
  19. Engine

    Engine Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The situation being discussed would take someone of with a high degree of knowledge of the aircraft to pull this off. These folks would have essentially had worked for an airline. The amount of technology communicating with ground and space stations in a 777 isn't that easy to "turn off." Yea turn the transponder off, might not be difficult but there are a good amount of other things on there communicating with the outside world. ACARS, SATCOM, CPDLC, just to mention a few.

    I speculate that whatever happened happened very quickly.
     
  20. ARFlyer

    ARFlyer Pattern Altitude

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    This event is showing us how the world is still big. Yeah you can jump on a plane to Europe and be there in 7 hrs. But there is a LOT of water in between.

    Over on airliners.net a guy posted that the Chinese are starting to get annoyed at the SAR operation. They sent 10 higher up to "help" speed things along.
     
  21. SixPapaCharlie

    SixPapaCharlie May the force be with you PoA Supporter

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    Camouflage duh.
    Look for a second and you will start to see it.


    [​IMG]
     
  22. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Of course they are. If they do find the thing at the bottom of the ocean, it will be a great opportunity for some bottom mapping.

    Last thing China wants is a bunch of ships (including US ships) parked nearby for a salvage op.
     
  23. Corpsmaide

    Corpsmaide Cleared for Takeoff

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    I heard the US NAVY will be sending a P-3 and Seahawk to help locate
     
  24. txflyer

    txflyer En-Route

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    Question for you Navy vets or any vets:

    Do they keep an AWACS airborne all the time when they are in proximity to foreign waters? What is AWACS role, and how far can they paint the arena?

    Would it be improper to say that when one of those puppies is airborne, there is no such thing as an unidentified target?
     
  25. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    CNN is reporting that the tickets associated with the stolen passports were purchased by an Iranian man.
     
  26. topgun260

    topgun260 Pre-Flight

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    There are some reports that say they are searching new areas including the Strait of Malacca which is WEST of Malaysia. Maybe they have new information that they aren't releasing relating to a hijacking? Also several reports of family calling the cell phones of people known to be on the flight and the cell phones ring a few times but aren't answered.
    [​IMG]
     
  27. airguy

    airguy Cleared for Takeoff

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    Because it's big enough to carry a crude third world manufactured nuclear weapon.

    Gut the interior, load it up, new paint job with fake numbers, originate out of somewhere as a private business jet (same rough performance numbers, can't tell the difference on civilian radar) and you would be over a major populated city for an airburst before anyone could figure it out.

    9-11 taught them that if you go off-course for very long you will be shot down - but a normal descent pattern into any major US airport will allow you to take out a large chunk of the city without ever deviating from your assigned course.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  28. nddons

    nddons Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I was thinking that as well. Load it up with tons of medical radiation waste, and you have a big dirty bomb. Don't even need an air burst for that.
     
  29. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    There are two destroyers enroute, both with SH-60 dets onboard. I have not heard anything specifically about P-3s, but would not be surprised if they sent them.
     
  30. mikea

    mikea Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You saying that those pilots of the flight of Japanese Zeroes in 1942 were loading their pants when the 777 popped out behind them?

    "Howwy Seeet!"
     
  31. JimNtexas

    JimNtexas Pattern Altitude

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  32. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No. AWACS are specifically tasked. Not always flying.

    I don't know what the specific range is (pretty sure it is classified at any rate), but I'd guess it is around 150-200 nm.

    Just because you have paint on a contact doesn't mean it is automatically identified. You still need other sensors (such as IFF interrogation or radar emission sensors) to identify tracks.
     
  33. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach

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    Snatching a 777 full of people for this purpose makes no sense. Why not grab an old cargo plane.
     
  34. airguy

    airguy Cleared for Takeoff

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    Two reasons.

    First, they get the double-duty of a terror story about a whole plane disappearing.

    Second, if they intend on using the aircraft to carry a mass-destruction weapon to a major city, they will only get one chance to get "into the system". They can take off from any of several thousand unmonitored locations and open an IFR plan into the US (or other country) calling themselves a G-IV and nobody will be the wiser until it arrives at it's destination - but the ruse will not work if they have to stop and refuel, which means they need enough un-refueled range to get from Point A to Point B in a single hop, and the 777 gives them a LOT of range for that. Point A where they originate from will have to be someplace they can hide the identity of the aircraft and depart without fear of triggering any sort of radiation detection. An old cargo aircraft would work fine for that part, but there is too much risk of setting off radiation detectors during a fuel stop with customs inspection. The attack would have to take place on descent enroute to the first intended port of entry.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  35. Dav8or

    Dav8or En-Route

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    Why would anyone hijack an airliner with the purpose of turning it into a weapons delivery system, when you can just buy one on the used/salvage market and avoid drawing attention to your scheme? If you have the dough to build a nuclear bomb, or a dirty bomb, you can afford some raggedy ol' 747 out of Africa or somewhere.
     
  36. airguy

    airguy Cleared for Takeoff

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    Too many tracks are left when buying one - there is always somebody to point back at the trail, and you could get caught/intercepted via that trail before you get to use it. If you steal it, it's yours without paper - you just have to hide it very well until you want to use it. The troubling part is that once you use it, you stand a very high chance of being discovered. What worries me is that being discovered is not something they are worried about since they don't intend on using the aircraft more than once.

    My guess is that the group would make the assumption their moves are being watched and would be caught if they tried to buy an aircraft large enough to transport that kind of payload. The only way to get one that big would be to steal it - either sitting on the ground at an air terminal (exceedingly difficult) or to hijack it and get away with it (only slightly less difficult).
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  37. Mike I

    Mike I Line Up and Wait

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    There's still the stolen 727 floating about (potentially). That's a bit scary as well. http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/the-727-that-vanished-2371187/?no-ist
     
  38. Tmpendergrass

    Tmpendergrass Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I'm sure this conversation is being had very seriously at the FBI, CIA, etc


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  39. ClimbnSink

    ClimbnSink Ejection Handle Pulled

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    If it disappeared intact those guys are the culprits.
     
  40. NoHeat

    NoHeat Pattern Altitude

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    There's got to be a story behind the western search areas. They seem to be taking it so seriously that they sent the American Orion plane there.