LPV / WAAS Upgrade

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Ryan Harris, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. Ryan Harris

    Ryan Harris Filing Flight Plan

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    Yet another struggle, the #2 Nav/Com is struggling and I think it's time for replacement (Narco MK12D). Plane currently has GTX335 ADS-B out/ KX-155/ MK12D/KLN-90A/PS7000B setup. Looking for the best approach to get rid of the MK12 and get LPV at the same time. Garmin 430W used? Just suck it up and get an IFD440 or GTN650?
     
  2. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    I would go with new, the diff is about 2k when I last checked
     
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  3. Randy Boone

    Randy Boone Filing Flight Plan

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    When I upgraded for ADS-B several years ago, in my mind I had to choose either upgrade my G530 to WAAS or purchase new. I chose to upgrade the G530 before the upgrade cost were $$$$. I also installed the FS210 along with GTX345. I'm very happy with my decision and enjoy the way things work together. However, looking back, I wish I would have given more thought to installing the IFD540. I would not have needed the FS210 and this would have taken one piece out of the puzzle.
     
  4. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    530/430W is still the gold standard, guess it depends on the deals you can find, I’d rather have a 430w and $2k for gas than pay more for a 650 that does the exact same thing, one might even say without the knobs less so.
     
  5. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I would consider the GTN 650,if I’m keeping the airplane.
     
  6. chemgeek

    chemgeek Line Up and Wait

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    The screens are whales better on the GTN or IFD series compared to the 430/530 series. And the 430/530 series is decade old technology at this point. My NGT9000 transponder has a better screen than my 430. Just saying. The 430 is still a workhorse, though. Long term support could be questionable at this point. That would be the main risk of buying one now.
     
  7. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    2 decades, no?
     
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  8. chemgeek

    chemgeek Line Up and Wait

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    Probably...mine was mature technology when I installed it a decade ago.
     
  9. Jim_CAK

    Jim_CAK Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    I have a used Non-Waas 430 that we will be selling. I still would not recommend buying a used 430/530. Ours was 20 years old. We also put in the the Lynx 9000 transponder and it does have a better screen than our old 430.
     
  10. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    You're clearly not in Sales and Marketing.
     
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  11. SbestCFII

    SbestCFII Line Up and Wait

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    Garmin took away too many knobs and the 650/750s can be a pain to use when it's bumpy/turbulent.
     
  12. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    With a IAS autopilot in a engine failure I can set best glide and have the plane fly on speed to the nearest field in seconds off muscle memory with a GNS. This is useful.
     
  13. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 Pattern Altitude

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    Install costs will be the same, seems silly to use antiquated avionics. Didn’t Garmin announce they will not be able to replace the screens anymore because they are no longer manufactured?


    Tom
     
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  14. Raymo

    Raymo Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That was for the 480W units.
     
  15. Martin Pauly

    Martin Pauly Pre-Flight

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    For a new install, the difference in total cost between a used 430W or something new (think Garmin 650, or Avidyne 440 - both are very capable and very popular units) is going to be very minimal. I would go with a new unit.
     
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  16. Jim_CAK

    Jim_CAK Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    True - I am an Engineer. I am way too analytical for sales! I would talk too many people out decisions that don’t make sense and I would never get a commission.
    We did sell the 430 though. If you can find the situation where the buyer can do the labor and have someone to sign it off it can be a low cost way to equip.
     
  17. Flybuddy

    Flybuddy Pre-Flight

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    I just went through this same decision an am awaiting an Avidyne install. The used asking prices for a 430W are fairly high and when you take into account, age of units, updates, less than perfect working condition, very high cost of repairs and Garmin's history of abandoning products, it's worth the extra 2 to 3K for an IFD unit. Good news is that if you prefer new Garmin, competition has prompted them to keep the prices lower on the 650/750.
     
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  18. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Cleared for Takeoff

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    i will say it again, why buy a box that has not been made since 2011. the 480 has been orphaned, one version of the 430 has been orphaned. how much longer will parts be available? some people will not believe it, but the supply of screens is getting very low. and there will NOT be a new run of screens. I would not want to buy a 430w and find out next year or two when the screen dies that you cannot get it fixed. then your either buying a IDF or a GTN and paying again to have that installed. also, with the flat rate repair cost of the 430 one problem eats up the savings of over the GTN. stick with a in production box if you are going to install a GPS.
     
  19. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Don’t think the sky is falling when it comes to the GNS
     
  20. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Cleared for Takeoff

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    think again james, i have a very good friend that runs a very large garmin install shop and he says the word is screens supply is almost gone, but keep telling people to save 2k or 3k by buying a radio that is 8 years out of production.
     
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  21. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I would go with the GTN650. There's a case to be made for the 440, but FWIW I have no problem using the GTN in turbulence and I still am not completely comfortable with Avidyne's reliability and customer service.

    The GNS series is simply not worth the cost to install it any more, IMO. It's old tech that will need to be replaced sooner, and the limited savings you might see now will vanish when you have to replace it a decade earlier than you would have otherwise. Unless you're selling your plane soon (in which case you might want to avoid an upgrade, period), I would not bother with a GNS x30W at this point.

    The 650 has a MUCH better display, faster processor, etc... The GNS x30W units display only a limited number of traffic targets because of that, and their screens are smaller, and... There's a fair bit of difference.

    But, the big thing is that the GTN is a dozen years more recent technology, and thus we can assume it will be supportable for at least a dozen more years than a GNS. The cost of the units is $2K (or less) different, and the cost of installation is the same. So, would you rather have something that will last most likely another 15 years or so, or something that's likely to become unsupported in 5 or maybe less?

    Yup. The GNS 430 came out in 1999.

    Uhhh... Garmin's history of abandoning products?!? They're still supporting 20-year-old technology in the GNS line!

    If you're speaking of the 480, that may not really be in their control as that unit wasn't produced by Garmin, it was one of the things they acquired with their purchase of UPS Aviation Technologies.

    When a new unit like the 430/480/650 is first designed, the certification takes long enough that the components used to build them are close to end-of-life when certification is first achieved! Thus, Garmin (or UPSAT) pretty much has to purchase ALL the components they will EVER use to build the units up front. UPSAT may not have been able to make as big of a purchase as Garmin could, and by the time Garmin bought UPSAT it was likely too late to purchase more. That's probably one reason why the SL30 went away in favor of the GNC255 as well. (The SL30 was another former UPSAT product.)