LogTen, is it worth it?

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Pilot-To-Be

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I just joined an airline cadet program and they’re giving a free subscription to LogTen Pro while in the program until we get hired. Of course after that, I’m guessing I’ll have to purchase it to keep my log book. It’s currently $79 for the regular version or $130 for the Pro subscription. It seems the airline wants us to use LogTen to upload our times with, even though MyFlightBook is free.

Is LogTen worth the cost once I have to pay for it? I don’t want to go entering 1500hrs of flights in LogTen only to lose it later.
 
If the airline industry is accepting Log-Ten formatted data, it probably makes sense to use it unless there is another reasonable alternative. My question would be, are they accepting Log-Ten’s format or a Log-Ten csv export which can be duplicated in an export from most any other eLog.

In terms of the future, most of the data is exportable and transferable from one logbook to another. The one exception is digital signatures. You will have what was signed and often an indication it was digitally signed, but not the digital signature itself.
 
Thank you, a professional pilot gig is my goal, and I want to have the best digital logbook that will be most universal or recognized down the road.
 
Pilot-To-Be said:
Is LogTen worth the cost once I have to pay for it? I don’t want to go entering 1500hrs of flights in LogTen only to lose it later.
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You can export from LogTen, and IIRC you can even tell it what fields to export and in what order.

I exported my LogTen logbook - ALL tables and fields, not just what ForeFlight could take in - and then I did the necessary data transformations in Google Sheets to make a file I could import to ForeFlight, which is what I'm using for my logbook now.

So, there's really not a downside to using it for now. If you want to switch later, you'll need to spend some time getting the export done right but you can transfer the data to anything that can take a CSV import if you put in the work to get it in the right format.
 
I would check out AIROS, it pulls in aircraft info, route, and times with jsut a tail number and date
 
flyingcheesehead said:
You can export from LogTen, and IIRC you can even tell it what fields to export and in what order.

I exported my LogTen logbook - ALL tables and fields, not just what ForeFlight could take in - and then I did the necessary data transformations in Google Sheets to make a file I could import to ForeFlight, which is what I'm using for my logbook now.

So, there's really not a downside to using it for now. If you want to switch later, you'll need to spend some time getting the export done right but you can transfer the data to anything that can take a CSV import if you put in the work to get it in the right format.
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This is the key. People act as if they are choosing a life partner. Use whatever makes sense. For me, it's foreflight because I'm using it as my EFD anyway. If I switch to something else later, then I'll move my logs to something else later.

Also, mentioning again since a couple people last time were unaware, foreflight has a feature that emails you a backup of your log on a monthly basis. Very good for peace of mind that you will never be more than a few weeks out of date on your backups.
 
172andyou said:
This is the key. People act as if they are choosing a life partner. Use whatever makes sense. For me, it's foreflight because I'm using it as my EFD anyway. If I switch to something else later, then I'll move my logs to something else later.

Also, mentioning again since a couple people last time were unaware, foreflight has a feature that emails you a backup of your log on a monthly basis. Very good for peace of mind that you will never be more than a few weeks out of date on your backups.
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Check out AIROS it logs to the cloud automatically.
 
Pilot-To-Be said:
Is LogTen worth the cost once I have to pay for it? I don’t want to go entering 1500hrs of flights in LogTen only to lose it later.
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My guess is you are going to be using an EFB (Electronic Flight Bag) like ForeFlight, so it is probably isn't worth the extra money. ForeFlight and the major EFBs have a Digital Logbook included. So no need to pay for another one. (Nothing against LogTen, I hear it is good.)

As for "loosing" your data, I'm guessing you were really talking about moving it to a different platform down the road, which is not a problem with LogTen Pro, ForeFlight or any of the major Logbook Apps out there. They all can export to a .CSV file which can then be manipulated as needed (if needed) to import into whatever new program you're using. As for "loosing" the data, regardless of which Digital Logbook you use, be sure to make your own local backups of your data. ForeFlight lets you do it either manually or they will send you a backup every month. I'm sure LogTen Pro has a similar feature, so USE IT.

NOTE: Some (most?) Flight Schools start you off with paper charts, an old E6B, etc., to learn the basics. And this is a good idea. So even if you start off with a paper Logbook, don't worry about it. There are not going to be that many entries, so by the time you move on to ForeFlight (or whatever), it will take no time at all making the entries into FF. You can then either just make a note to see the paper Logbook or have your CFI re-sign all of your new digital entries in FF.
 
lasdude said:
ForeFlight lets you log errors and empty entries. AIROS pulls in data from the FAA registry and ADSB plus doesn't let you log anything that violates 61.51
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I'm not sure what errors foreflight lets me log, but I know that ADSB is incomplete in many of the areas I fly. Contrast with foreflight that logs every flight I make simply by hitting "record". Definitely suits my needs perfectly, and is included in the EFB I already use.
 
172andyou said:
I'm not sure what errors foreflight lets me log, but I know that ADSB is incomplete in many of the areas I fly. Contrast with foreflight that logs every flight I make simply by hitting "record". Definitely suits my needs perfectly, and is included in the EFB I already use.
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That's what I'm saying. It lets you log entries with missing info, night flights with day landings, basically anything you give it.
 
lasdude said:
That's what I'm saying. It lets you log entries with missing info, night flights with day landings, basically anything you give it.
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I'm still unclear on what you're saying. ANY Logbook lets you log inaccurate data if you so choose or are just not smart enough to catch it.

And I just looked at the AIROS website. If it is based totally on ADS-B or pulling from some other site, my guess is you're entering in a LOT of errors. There is no way to get around it if you're pulling data and not reviewing it to correct the errors. As for ADS-B, there are a LOT of areas where it is pretty sketchy. In mountainous areas you could be doing T&Gs or Approaches and it would have no clue as your ADS-B dropped off, so it would ***GUESS*** to fill in the data. Also no way to know when you actually started to move and how long you sat waiting for departure at a lot of airports. Here it has the same issues as ForeFlight does if you use the Auto Start/Stop. But if you use the Manual Start/Stop you'd probably have a much more accurate initial Logbook entry which should only take a moment to review and confirm the info is correct.

ADDED: Oops, forgot to answer your day/night comment. Yes, a FF Track Log draft will automatically enter day and/or night landings based on time. Not sure if G Pilot or the other EFBs do this, but FF does.
 
M20K said:
I'm still unclear on what you're saying. ANY Logbook lets you log inaccurate data if you so choose or are just not smart enough to catch it.

And I just looked at the AIROS website. If it is based totally on ADS-B or pulling from some other site, my guess is you're entering in a LOT of errors. There is no way to get around it if you're pulling data and not reviewing it to correct the errors. As for ADS-B, there are a LOT of areas where it is pretty sketchy. In mountainous areas you could be doing T&Gs or Approaches and it would have no clue as your ADS-B dropped off, so it would ***GUESS*** to fill in the data. Also no way to know when you actually started to move and how long you sat waiting for departure at a lot of airports. Here it has the same issues as ForeFlight does if you use the Auto Start/Stop. But if you use the Manual Start/Stop you'd probably have a much more accurate initial Logbook entry which should only take a moment to review and confirm the info is correct.

ADDED: Oops, forgot to answer your day/night comment. Yes, a FF Track Log draft will automatically enter day and/or night landings based on time. Not sure if G Pilot or the other EFBs do this, but FF does.
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It's not guessing. It tells you when it doesn't have full data. AIROS doesn't let you log anything that goes against 61.51, or like night landings during a day flight. Or even mislogging XC or day and night time. I recommend you try it instead of being wrong and assuming all of this.
 
lasdude said:
AIROS doesn't let you log anything that goes against 61.51
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So if I enter 2 night landings by mistake that were in mid day, it's going to stop me?

If not, then my comment stands. Any Logbook program, or any paper Logbook, can have errors. They all need to be reviewed, especially if you are pulling data from some other source. (Many decades in tech, there are often errors in the data.)
 
M20K said:
So if I enter 2 night landings by mistake that were in mid day, it's going to stop me?

If not, then my comment stands. Any Logbook program, or any paper Logbook, can have errors. They all need to be reviewed, especially if you are pulling data from some other source. (Many decades in tech, there are often errors in the data.)
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Yes, it will stop you.
 
lasdude said:
It's not guessing. It tells you when it doesn't have full data. AIROS doesn't let you log anything that goes against 61.51, or like night landings during a day flight. Or even mislogging XC or day and night time. I recommend you try it instead of being wrong and assuming all of this.
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What about day landings during a night flight?
 
M20K said:
Daylight Savings time when you fly to AZ... Just kidding. :D
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Ha! Not necessary, really.

I was in St. Kitts (Atlantic Standard Time and well south of the Tropic of Cancer) the other day and having sunset at 6:41 PM was really weird.
 
I prefer paper logbooks over online logbooks, but it's a good idea to keep both. From what I hear, LogTen is good (if using the csv format), but keep a backup on paper just in case the website crashes.
 
lasdude said:
Stops you from that too.
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Is it using OOOI times for that, or how does it work?

I ask because this is somewhat of a trick question. You can have "day" landings on a flight with night time logged.

The purpose of logging night landings is passenger currency, and requires that they be at least an hour before sunrise and an hour after sunset. Night time, however, can be logged from evening civil twilight to morning civil twilight.

Thus, there are quite a few flights in my logbook that are correctly logged with night time, but day takeoffs and landings.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Is it using OOOI times for that, or how does it work?

I ask because this is somewhat of a trick question. You can have "day" landings on a flight with night time logged.

The purpose of logging night landings is passenger currency, and requires that they be at least an hour before sunrise and an hour after sunset. Night time, however, can be logged from evening civil twilight to morning civil twilight.

Thus, there are quite a few flights in my logbook that are correctly logged with night time, but day takeoffs and landings.
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I mean, I just keep going back to whether or not it worth $170 a year for a logbook that allegedly will stop me from logging a night landing incorrectly. Or just use foreflight, which already has a logbook included.
 
172andyou said:
I mean, I just keep going back to whether or not it worth $170 a year for a logbook that allegedly will stop me from logging a night landing incorrectly. Or just use foreflight, which already has a logbook included.
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I don't know if it will *stop you*, but FF will now log Day and Night flights for you. (If you use Track Log, which I don't.)
 
M20K said:
I don't know if it will *stop you*, but FF will now log Day and Night flights for you. (If you use Track Log, which I don't.)
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That's a nice feature - Otherwise, because I'm a stickler for accuracy, I'd always be looking up the civil twilight times at my departure and destination, interpolating to get a decent estimate of where I would have been and when for civil twilight at my actual location... Now it just does the work for me and tells me exactly how much night time I had.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
That's a nice feature - Otherwise, because I'm a stickler for accuracy, I'd always be looking up the civil twilight times at my departure and destination, interpolating to get a decent estimate of where I would have been and when for civil twilight at my actual location... Now it just does the work for me and tells me exactly how much night time I had.
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I actually sent them a "Feature Request" this morning on Night Time. They should be able to tell from the Track Log times if your Takeoff and your Landing were within the period that would count for Night Currency to carry passengers. So they should be able to show this in you Currency Summary. I also asked them to make this available for Manual Entries. Maybe a check box or something that says it qualifies for more than 1 hour after sunset or before sunrise. But it would be a nice addition to check your Currency on.
 
M20K said:
I actually sent them a "Feature Request" this morning on Night Time. They should be able to tell from the Track Log times if your Takeoff and your Landing were within the period that would count for Night Currency to carry passengers. So they should be able to show this in you Currency Summary. I also asked them to make this available for Manual Entries. Maybe a check box or something that says it qualifies for more than 1 hour after sunset or before sunrise. But it would be a nice addition to check your Currency on.
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They already do both - The latter is fairly new, the former has been around for a long time (2019):

Logbook Expanded Takeoff & Landing Types

Log expanded takeoff and landing types such as Towered, Touch & Go, and more.
foreflight.com foreflight.com

Logbook Auto-Calculates Night Times & Landing

Logbook now automatically calculates Night Time and Night Landings.
foreflight.com foreflight.com

Hopefully if there's something you're doing that's preventing it from working they'll let you know what that might be.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
They already do both - The latter is fairly new, the former has been around for a long time (2019):
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No, not that I'm aware of....

There is a difference between logging a "Night" Takeoff or Landing and having those TO & Landings count for Currency to Carry Passengers.

Night Landings can be any time from the end of evening civil twilight to the beginning of morning civil twilight. And a Touch & Go is still a Night Landing.

To carry passengers it must be 1 hour after sunset and 1 hour before sunrise and the Landing must be a Full Stop. And to my knowledge, even with what you posted, FF is not doing that. But what your post did remind me is that you can create your own entries to manually count the night currency. But I just make a note in the Comments that the flight was for Night Currency (which to me means to carry Pax) and that real easy to search for.
 
M20K said:
No, not that I'm aware of....

There is a difference between logging a "Night" Takeoff or Landing and having those TO & Landings count for Currency to Carry Passengers.

Night Landings can be any time from the end of evening civil twilight to the beginning of morning civil twilight. And a Touch & Go is still a Night Landing.

To carry passengers it must be 1 hour after sunset and 1 hour before sunrise and the Landing must be a Full Stop. And to my knowledge, even with what you posted, FF is not doing that. But what your post did remind me is that you can create your own entries to manually count the night currency. But I just make a note in the Comments that the flight was for Night Currency (which to me means to carry Pax) and that real easy to search for.
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What is the purpose of logging a "night" TO/L that doesn't count for carrying pax?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
What is the purpose of logging a "night" TO/L that doesn't count for carrying pax?
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Just because. :D Decades ago I figured it might help with insurance. And it's just what I was taught to do and to keep track of Night per "night" landings and those for Currency. But as for LogTen... which does it log???? Per the regs for "night" or per the regs to be Current to Carry Passengers? Or does it show both?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
What is the purpose of logging a "night" TO/L that doesn't count for carrying pax?
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Well, to be fair, it is the accurate way to do it. And there are some edge cases where doing so potentially prevents seemingly illogical situations.

Such as, you take off 45 minutes after sunset and fly for an hour. So, all of your time is "night", but you have a "day" takeoff. Which I can see some people thinking as being logically inconsistent.

There are a lot of logging things that we do that don't really have much of a purpose, after all.
 
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