Logging xc time as cfi

S

Stets656

Pre-Flight
Joined
Jun 19, 2015
Messages
64
Display Name
Display name:
Ben
I was wondering if I am able to log cross country time while giving dual instruction to a commercial student on a cross country more than 50 nm, in which I do not perform the landing. I know this has had some debate before.
 
Were you acting as CFI?

If so, yes.
 
You're a CFI? If you are you need to read some regulations. You should know this. Not being harsh at all but you really should.
 
mscard88 said:
You're a CFI? If you are you need to read some regulations. You should know this. Not being harsh at all but you really should.
Click to expand...
Now you have me curious. Which regulations are those? Given the series of 2009 Chief Counsel opinions on logging cross country time (only someone who is either (a) a required crewmember for the entire flight or (b) performs the takeoff, landing and enroute portions, may log cross country time), I think the question is not easy to answer by looking at the regs and the interpretations.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Now you have me curious. Which regulations are those? Given the series of 2009 Chief Counsel opinions on logging cross country time (only someone who is either (a) a required crewmember for the entire flight or (b) performs the takeoff, landing and enroute portions, may log cross country time), I think the question is not easy to answer by looking at the regs and the interpretations.
Click to expand...

If it's a training flight I'd say the trainer is kinda required
 
James331 said:
If it's a training flight I'd say the trainer is kinda required
Click to expand...
If it's a student pilot or another situation in which the "student" could not act as PIC, I'd tend to agree. If not, @mtuomi's comment is on point.
 
mtuomi said:
Required crewmember = required by a regulation or aircraft type certificate.
Click to expand...

By regulation do you need a CFI to log dual/receive instruction, or can you do that all by yourself?
 
It is part of a 141 commercial course. Not sure if that would change anything, maybe the 141 regulation requires an instructor?
 
midlifeflyer said:
Now you have me curious. Which regulations are those? Given the series of 2009 Chief Counsel opinions on logging cross country time (only someone who is either (a) a required crewmember for the entire flight or (b) performs the takeoff, landing and enroute portions, may log cross country time), I think the question is not easy to answer by looking at the regs and the interpretations.
Click to expand...

OP mentions a dual XC. Dual.
 
The term “commercial student” implies that he is a private pilot who is working on his commercial. The CFI then is not needed to conduct the flight but only to provide instruction on the commercial aspect of the flight.
 
SkyDog58 said:
The term “commercial student” implies that he is a private pilot who is working on his commercial. The CFI then is not needed to conduct the flight but only to provide instruction on the commercial aspect of the flight.
Click to expand...

Not what he was asking though right? If he goes along and provides instruction...I'm going by what the OP is asking.
 
Last edited:
It's like logging time from prop start to stop, people make stuff so complicated.

If you're flying with a CFI and the CFI puts his ink in your logbook as dual, he logs it.
 
James331 said:
It's like logging time from prop start to stop, people make stuff so complicated.

If you're flying with a CFI and the CFI puts his ink in your logbook as dual, he logs it.
Click to expand...

He logs the time, but NOT the XC time.
 
James331 said:
By regulation do you need a CFI to log dual/receive instruction, or can you do that all by yourself?
Click to expand...
"Logging" is not a flight activity. You log everything on the ground. There's no FAR requiring a CFI to be on a flight.

Btw, I think the answer is the CFI can. I just don't think it's as clear as you do. It was a legitimate question.
 
mtuomi said:
He logs the time, but NOT the XC time.
Click to expand...

That may be the case for a safety pilot because they are not required while the Pilot Flying doesn't have the hood on for takeoff and landing, but a CFI is instructing chock to chock.
 
Please god, how is this even a discussion?
 
midlifeflyer said:
There's no FAR requiring a CFI to be on a flight.
Click to expand...

Without a CFI how is the left seat guy logging dual?

Someone hires me to teach them XYZ, the mission is a training flight and I am the trainer, that's kinda makes me instrumental in said flight no?
 
James331 said:
Without a CFI how is the left seat guy logging dual?

Someone hires me to teach them XYZ, the mission is a training flight and I am the trainer, that's kinda makes me instrumental in said flight no?
Click to expand...
There is a difference between rules of flight and rules of logging, as well as a difference between the role of "pilot" and the role of "instructor." I thought that was well understood at this point.

I think the ultimate answer would be yes (just a guess), but not based on a CFI being required crew. Consider: if a CFI is always a required flight crew member on an instructional flight, then a CFI always has to have a current medical per 61.23. That's contrary to decades of FAA policy.
 
James331 said:
Without a CFI how is the left seat guy logging dual?

Someone hires me to teach them XYZ, the mission is a training flight and I am the trainer, that's kinda makes me instrumental in said flight no?
Click to expand...
I think the important part of the OP is that it's a commercial instruction flight of longer than 50 nm, it isn't the long XC for the commercial rating. That's where I was hung up for a sec. So yes, instructor is a required crew Amber.
 
mryan75 said:
I think the important part of the OP is that it's a commercial instruction flight of longer than 50 nm, it isn't the long XC for the commercial rating. That's where I was hung up for a sec. So yes, instructor is a required crew Amber.
Click to expand...
So, a CFI needs a medical certificate on a VFR flight with a private pilot who is current and rated in the aircraft? If the CFI is a required crew member, 61.23 says he does (he doesn't).
 
midlifeflyer said:
So, a CFI needs a medical certificate on a VFR flight with a private pilot who is current and rated in the aircraft? If the CFI is a required crew member, 61.23 says he does (he doesn't).
Click to expand...
Hi.
 
Never even thought about this. Always logged as cross country any cross country flight on which I served as a CFI.

Unless one is using those hours towards an additional rating, the whole question is quite academic.
 
I don't think it matters whether the CFI is a required crewmember or not.

The FAA states that cross country time is in part "time acquired during flight...that includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure".

Whether a person is a required crewmember or not matters in the context of a safety pilot logging an XC time, and the Chief Counsel said if the previously hooded pilot takes the hood off and lands, the safety pilot is a passenger during this period, and since he or she can't log time "during flight that includes a landing," it's not XC time.

However, a CFI may log time (as PIC no less) at all times while acting as an authorized instructor (if rated to act as PIC). Since the CFI can log the entire flight, they have met the requirement of having acquired time during flight which includes a landing. I don't think it's necessary that they perform or be able to log the landing either.
 
FastEddieB said:
Never even thought about this. Always logged as cross country any cross country flight on which I served as a CFI.

Unless one is using those hours towards an additional rating, the whole question is quite academic.
Click to expand...
+1
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top