Logging of Cross-Country Time

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ScottVal

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Scott
Hello-
I was wondering what criteria you all use in deciding whether to log a flight as a CC flight.

I believe there is an FAR which defines a CC flight as any flight with a landing at an airport other than the departure airport. That means you could consider a CC flight as being a flight to an airport only five miles away.

However I haven't been logging those kinds of flights as CC. But should I? I've been using a minimum distance of 25 nm.

What to you think?
-Scott
 
>50 NM. But do by all means track your point to point flight for later on in your career.
 
I don't see a reason why not. FAA defines a x-country as a flight from point A to point B with the use of some kind of navigation. Since they never said the distance requirements, 5nm flight is a x-country.


Here is the actual reg:
61.1(b)
Cross-country time means—

(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (ii) through (vi) of this definition, time acquired during flight—

(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;

(B ) Conducted in an aircraft;

(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and

(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.
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MachFly said:
I don't see a reason why not. FAA defines a x-country as a flight from point A to point B with the use of some kind of navigation. Since they never said the distance requirements, 5nm flight is a x-country.
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Only issue comes when you start to count up cross country time for a certain rating, of course =)
 
A pretty good answer is here: http://www.midlifeflight.com/faq/faq.php?s=1#7

The short version is that most people only log flights with a landing more than 50 nm from their point of original departure, because that's what counts for most of the ratings you'll be using XC hours to apply for.

But, for various other purposes, it can be nice to keep track of other categories. Some logbooks have two cross-country columns for that reason.
 
an x country involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point. you can log it. however some ratings require you to have x countries with a distance of more than 50 nm from the departure point.
 
ChrisK said:
Only issue comes when you start to count up cross country time for a certain rating, of course =)
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You can log x-country as 50+nm until you get a commercial (or which ever is the last rating that requires 50nm x-countries), then start logging x-country time as per §61.1(b). In order to keep everything consistent you can go back through your logbook and recalculate all the previous x-country time. It may be a pain in the a** but if you need the hours for a job or ATP it might be worth it.
 
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MachFly said:
You can log x-country as 50+nm until you get a commercial (or which ever is the last rating that requires 50nm x-countries), then start logging x-country time as per §61.1(b). In order to keep everything consistent you can go back through your logbook and recalculate all the previous x-country time. It may be a pain in the a** but if you need the hours for a job or ATP it might be worth it.
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Yah. Since I'm not going for ATP I get to just say 50 like you said. I've been in situations where I've been asked what all of my "raw" XC time was. Truth is, I rarely just go fly a pattern, so the answer is "most of it".
 
The problem is that the FAA has seven different definitions of "cross-country" depending on what you're flying and what it is to which you're applying the hours. For probably 90% of the folks here, sticking with the "includes a landing more than 50nm from the original point of departure" type of cross-country time is the only one that will ever matter to them, so that's how they use the one "XC" column in your log. OTOH, if you've already got your ATP, then you can log any flight with a landing other than where you took off, and you'll be fine for any FAA purpose to which that time might be put at that point. Or, you can create a couple of extra XC columns -- one for "landing over 50nm" to apply to the Private/Instrument/Commercial requirements, one "flight over 50nm regardless of landings" for ATP, and one for "basic" XC time (landing anywhere besides where you started) to apply to Part 135 requirements (I know of no other use for that one). Just make sure that you have a way of sorting out which is which when it comes time to fill out any 8710-1 you need for a certificate/rating with a cross-country experience requirement.
 
Thanks for all the replies, guys. Personally I had been counting anything over 25 nm as a CC. I had been thinking of 25-50 nm flights as "short CCs."

I'm working on an instrument rating, and I found myself penciling in, on the right margin of my logbook, a running total of 50 nm CCs, because you need 50 hours of those flights as one of the requirements for an IR.

A couple weeks ago I signed a rental agreement at an FBO and they asked (on the form) how much CC do you have? Here I would have liked to give the bigger number.

So, yea, I guess it makes sense to have more than one column.
 
For an ATP you only have to have flown 50nm away, you don't even have to land. I understand that is for the military bomber pilots who might fly half way around the world and back without landing.
 
mcmanigle said:
A pretty good answer is here: http://www.midlifeflight.com/faq/faq.php?s=1#7

The short version is that most people only log flights with a landing more than 50 nm from their point of original departure, because that's what counts for most of the ratings you'll be using XC hours to apply for.

But, for various other purposes, it can be nice to keep track of other categories. Some logbooks have two cross-country columns for that reason.
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Thank you for the link to my answer :)
 
I just keep it simple and log only the flights that conform to the 50 NM criteria as cross country. I see no benefit to padding XC experience if it doesn't count for anything anyway.
 
I use myflightbook.com.

I log anything where I touch the wheels somewhere other than takeoff as XC, then I have another field I can add that has "XC <50nm" that I set where necessary.

If I have to fill out a form that mandates >50nm, I just take total XC, subtract the XC<50nm time and voila.
 
Slight hijack... One of the fields I’ll fly to is 49 nm direct. However, there is restricted airspace that pushes the flight out to about 57 nm as I fly around it. How should a flight like that be logged, officially?
 
Shunpiker said:
Slight hijack... One of the fields I’ll fly to is 49 nm direct. However, there is restricted airspace that pushes the flight out to about 57 nm as I fly around it. How should a flight like that be logged, officially?
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It's cross-country.

However, it would not qualify for the 50h of XC-PIC for your Instrument Rating for example.

From Part 61:
Cross-country time means—
(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under §61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—
( B ) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

So, the R-space does not modify the straight line distance requirement. 49nm is too short. 50.000000001 is just fine.
 
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Thanks, Jeff. That’s what I was curious about. I understand it’s not >50nm, but I can’t get there w/o flying > 50nm, ha! I doubt that it’s relevant, but this R-space is in continuous use (over Fort Bragg).

And to nitpick... whose 50nm figure would the FSDO use... the one from Skyvector, Rand-McNally, or their own, clandestinely-held mileage data? I realize this is more of an exercise in the philosophy of the interpretation than anything else. I’m really not THAT concerned about it, but was pondering the issue and was looking for you guys’ input.
 
Shunpiker said:
Thanks, Jeff. That’s what I was curious about. I understand it’s not >50nm, but I can’t get there w/o flying > 50nm, ha! I doubt that it’s relevant, but this R-space is in continuous use (over Fort Bragg).

And to nitpick... whose 50nm figure would the FSDO use... the one from Skyvector, Rand-McNally, or their own, clandestinely-held mileage data? I realize this is more of an exercise in the philosophy of the interpretation than anything else. I’m really not THAT concerned about it, but was pondering the issue and was looking for you guys’ input.
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Personally, I will calculate the great-circle distance between the two Airport Reference Points listed in the A/FD...just like Skyvector does. Ultimately, if the FSDO or a DPE asks me about it, I can show a logically consistent calculation method, and it's not a "self-serving" definition like "well from the south end of the runway here to the north end of the runway there it's 50.000001 nm..."

I would also ensure that it's calculated to at least one decimal point. 49.9 rounded to 50 is insufficient, as the regulation says "more than 50".
 
I log both CC and CC Over 50 as appropriate. My home-made logbook program automatically calculates the distance between the two airports that are entered, so it is easy for me to know which to log. The program just includes a table of airport codes with lat/long and the calculation is fairly trivial.
 
Now that I have the ATP rating I log flights over 50 miles.
 
ScottVal said:
Thanks for all the replies, guys. Personally I had been counting anything over 25 nm as a CC. I had been thinking of 25-50 nm flights as "short CCs."
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If you're training for Sport Pilot, that's the distance that counts for that purpose. If you're training for Private, it has to be over 50nm for that purpose. As I said above, there are seven different definitions, each for a different purpose.

I'm working on an instrument rating, and I found myself penciling in, on the right margin of my logbook, a running total of 50 nm CCs, because you need 50 hours of those flights as one of the requirements for an IR.
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Correct. As long as you have those flights marked as such in your logbook, and only claim that time on the 8710-1 you fill out for that rating, you're doing fine.

A couple weeks ago I signed a rental agreement at an FBO and they asked (on the form) how much CC do you have? Here I would have liked to give the bigger number.
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It's up to that FBO what they want counted as XC for their purposes, not the FAA, so the only way to know just what they want is to ask them, not the FAA.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I just keep it simple and log only the flights that conform to the 50 NM criteria as cross country. I see no benefit to padding XC experience if it doesn't count for anything anyway.
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Unless you're interested in qualifying as a pilot for Part 135 purposes.
 
Kristin said:
For an ATP you only have to have flown 50nm away, you don't even have to land. I understand that is for the military bomber pilots who might fly half way around the world and back without landing.
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2500 hrs of military time, and maybe a dozen or more different airports that I've landed at. It would take almost 100nm or more just to reach cruise altitude.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I just keep it simple and log only the flights that conform to the 50 NM criteria as cross country. I see no benefit to padding XC experience if it doesn't count for anything anyway.
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Counts / doesn't count for what?

What's the benefit of not logging it?

Why 50 miles? What rating are you planning on applying it to?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Counts / doesn't count for what?

What's the benefit of not logging it?

Why 50 miles? What rating are you planning on applying it to?
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I just take the most restrictive criteria and leave it at that. If I ever wanted to use it for another rating, I'll have more than enough and I won't have to do any forensic accounting.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I just take the most restrictive criteria and leave it at that. If I ever wanted to use it for another rating, I'll have more than enough and I won't have to do any forensic accounting.
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The one big kicker is that 500 hours of XC time for Part 135 IFR PIC. Any flight with a landing other than the original point of departure counts for that, and that's a lot of time which you may get from local area flying. So, I'd suggest two columns for anyone flying Airplanes with any chance of flying 135 -- landing over 50nm (for PP/IR/CP), and any landing away (for that 135 requirement).
 
Ron Levy said:
The one big kicker is that 500 hours of XC time for Part 135 IFR PIC. Any flight with a landing other than the original point of departure counts for that, and that's a lot of time which you may get from local area flying. So, I'd suggest two columns for anyone flying Airplanes with any chance of flying 135 -- landing over 50nm (for PP/IR/CP), and any landing away (for that 135 requirement).
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Good point - but it actually doesn't add all that much in my case, and I'm already over 500 hours XC as it is anyway.
 
I log CC only if I actually "navigate".

The normal Saturday breakfast flight is 54 miles each way, but since I fly it so often, it's just like driving to the grocery store. No real navigation neccessary, so I don't log it as CC. Just a short hop.

.....that's just me. No need to build time for further ratings.
 
Non Compos Mentis said:
I log CC only if I actually "navigate".

The normal Saturday breakfast flight is 54 miles each way, but since I fly it so often, it's just like driving to the grocery store. No real navigation neccessary, so I don't log it as CC. Just a short hop.

.....that's just me. No need to build time for further ratings.
Click to expand...

On that basis what's the point of logging time all together?
 
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