Life with a block or airline schedule

[flyingcheesehead]

Felt this needed a new thread to get more eyes on it. Long story short, I'm moving to a 135 operation that is 7 on 7 off after previously working locally...

7-and-7 (or any similar block model) isn't your traditional banker's hours job, but a lot of people find they prefer it after making the leap. There are quite a few advantages. I have been doing block scheduling for nearly a decade, and I would never go back. It was an adjustment with the family at first, but we all came to strongly prefer it. I'm currently doing 13 on/rest of month off. I travel for work. I'm away from home 13-14 days/month, then I get the remainder of the month off, so 17ish consecutive days off. Been doing that particular schedule for over three years now. If you ever want to bounce anything off of me regarding extended blocks of work away from home, feel free to shoot me a DM.

Well, there's a few things I'm a bit apprehensive about:

* Not being nearby to save the day when necessary for my wife and kids. Luckily, my in-laws live about a half hour away and are extremely generous with their time, but darnit I like to save the day!
* Missing out on time with my family.
* Not being able to do anything that meets once a week. (I was in a band that meets on Tuesday nights, for example.)
* I'm hoping that I don't burn out from travel and waste a day on each end of the "off" time but I'm afraid of that. I used to be an over-the-road truck driver and trainer... That was either 11/3 or 5.5ish/1.5ish, but working every waking hour. With the 11/3 schedule I did my flight training, but with the 5.5/1.5 I didn't do jack. It took me one day to recover from the week out and then half a day to get ready to go again, and back to it. Ugh.

I think it will be nice to maybe get some projects done... But I'm also worried that my wife is gonna get so burned out with wrangling kids and housework by herself that she's going to shut down when I get home and I'm going to come back to a dirty house I have to clean and be expected to take over the kids for my "off" week... Which will result in my not getting anything done.

I would be very happy to hear tips from pro pilots (or other occupations, @traumamed) who deal with high travel fractions.

 

[Roller]

7/7 is pretty nice and better than much of what most people have

I have found spending less grind with family it better

I spend a good chunk away, it’s nice not to be in the misses business all the time

Then I come home and spend QUALITY time

Much better

As far as if things go pear shaped, you have to find out from others how the company handles it

Good places it’s a no questions asked, we have a ticket booked for you back home ASAP, hope alls well let us know if there is anything we can do

And there are not so good places

Overall not being home every day is much more natural and healthy for relationships IMHO

 

[traumamed]

* Not being nearby to save the day when necessary for my wife and kids. Luckily, my in-laws live about a half hour away and are extremely generous with their time, but darnit I like to save the day!

While you can't physically be there, you would be amazed what can be accomplished via phone calls/video chats/online these days. Worst case, yes, on extremely rare occasions you may have to tap nearby family. My parents live a half-hour away from us as well. It's nice knowing they are there. In practice, we have only had to call them once for help in three years of doing this. Our son needed to be picked up from school after my wife cut things a little too close on time running an errand 40 miles away.

Also, your wife may just amaze you at what she can handle that you might not have thought would've been in her wheelhouse.

* Missing out on time with my family.

Not really. 9-5 five days a week, every week, with maybe a couple weeks' vacation a year does not usually facilitate great family time. Everyone is in a rush in the morning to get to work and school. You get home at 5:30/6 and you're tired and don't want to do much with the family. The TV gets turned on, and yeah. You get two days a week together, really. When you work a block schedule, you are there the whole seven (or however many) days. You might be the breakfast/dinner guy when everyone else is too busy or tired. You will be around to get your kids from school, and have energy to do stuff with them in the evening.

You also get to do stuff when everyone else is stuck at work. My son and I are both big weather dorks, and we go storm chasing sometimes. A few weeks ago, there was an opportunity to see tornadoes only a three-hour flight away from us, so I pulled him out of school for two days, we flew up, and did our thing on a random Tuesday and Wednesday.

* Not being able to do anything that meets once a week. (I was in a band that meets on Tuesday nights, for example.)

Yeah, this is one that is tougher to work around. You'll find that most people will be pretty understanding of your work schedule though. The hardest is that yes, sometimes you miss your kids' events. Mine have never held it against me... yet.

* I'm hoping that I don't burn out from travel and waste a day on each end of the "off" time but I'm afraid of that. I used to be an over-the-road truck driver and trainer... That was either 11/3 or 5.5ish/1.5ish, but working every waking hour. With the 11/3 schedule I did my flight training, but with the 5.5/1.5 I didn't do jack. It took me one day to recover from the week out and then half a day to get ready to go again, and back to it. Ugh.

Hence the reason that longer blocks can be better than shorter ones in high-stress jobs. The less you have to "flip" back and forth, the less frequent you will need to allot time to recover/reacclimate.

I think it will be nice to maybe get some projects done... But I'm also worried that my wife is gonna get so burned out with wrangling kids and housework by herself that she's going to shut down when I get home and I'm going to come back to a dirty house I have to clean and be expected to take over the kids for my "off" week... Which will result in my not getting anything done.

Depends on what your wife's schedule looks like, and how much she is willing to embrace this lifestyle change. Things that help: hire a maid, tell her it's okay to hire a babysitter and go out with her friends once in awhile, encourage her to use DoorDash or take the kids to a restaurant if it's been one of those days, etc. And set clear expectations up front. "Dear, while I'm gone, I am working, not playing. I want to help out on my days off, but remember that they are still my days off from actual work."

Hope this helps a bit. Last thing I'll say: it's not for everyone. It works for me and my family, but it may not work for yours. Check in with your wife after you have both had a chance to settle into a groove with the new schedule, say in six months, and really be honest with each other about whether it's working and/or how to make it work better.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Awesome start to the thread, thank you!

Also, your wife may just amaze you at what she can handle that you might not have thought would've been in her wheelhouse.

I'm sure she *can* handle it. I'm also sure she'd be happier if she didn't have to.

Yeah, this is one that is tougher to work around. You'll find that most people will be pretty understanding of your work schedule though.

Yeah, not so much. We get two absences per semester, or we're out. So this one is going to fall by the wayside for now.

Things that help: hire a maid,

Oh man, I have tried. She doesn't even want a maid to see how dirty our house is.

tell her it's okay to hire a babysitter and go out with her friends once in awhile,

She's not so much into babysitters either, especially now that there are two kids. As a teacher, she knows plenty of former students and knows which ones would be more responsible, but two boys can be a real handful... So we haven't had a babysitter EVER since the second one was born. If we need someone to watch them, it's almost always said in-laws, or if they're not available her brother's family or my parents. So I think she'll save the going out with friends for when I'm home.

Check in with your wife after you have both had a chance to settle into a groove with the new schedule, say in six months, and really be honest with each other about whether it's working and/or how to make it work better.

I'm not expecting to be able to get off this schedule for a long time. I think the economy is gonna be in the crapper soon and probably stay there for a while, so a job with better QOL is going to be hard to come by. I'm also not sure what the expectation is in the aviation industry for how long you stay at a particular job, but there are plenty of places with a training contract for at least a year and I would expect that when there's a type rating getting paid for, it looks bad to stay there for less than a year and would lead to some difficulty getting hired at the next place.

What say you, pilots? What is the expectation for longevity in the industry?

 

[traumamed]

I'm sure she *can* handle it. I'm also sure she'd be happier if she didn't have to.

Maybe there will be some pros for her that balance it out. She will get a little more "me" time. She may also think some of it is cool. My wife walked out to the garage one morning to find a tire on her car was flat. I told her just to drive one of the other cars and that I would take care of it when I got home. After a couple days, she decided she wanted to drive her car NOW, and tackled it herself. Now when I'm in the garage working on a car, she sometimes comes out and says "I'll get the tires off - I can do that!" and gets excited about it.

Yeah, not so much. We get two absences per semester, or we're out. So this one is going to fall by the wayside for now.

I see. Yeah that's tough. Sorry man. I hadn't considered something like that. My attendance has not been required-or-you're-out at anything except work in over 10 years.

Oh man, I have tried. She doesn't even want a maid to see how dirty our house is.

My wife also gets embarrassed about the house for the maids, lol. I'll make fun of her when I see her "cleaning for the cleaning ladies." It took her about six months to really let that go. She still picks up clutter before they come, but overall she loves it now.

She's not so much into babysitters either, especially now that there are two kids. As a teacher, she knows plenty of former students and knows which ones would be more responsible, but two boys can be a real handful... So we haven't had a babysitter EVER since the second one was born. If we need someone to watch them, it's almost always said in-laws, or if they're not available her brother's family or my parents. So I think she'll save the going out with friends for when I'm home.

Hmmm, that's a tougher one. Would she be more comfortable if she hired one while she is at home to at least give herself some free time, while still feeling like she is there in the background? Maybe if she did that, she would warm up to the idea of actually leaving the kids with a sitter now and then.

I'm not expecting to be able to get off this schedule for a long time. I think the economy is gonna be in the crapper soon and probably stay there for a while, so a job with better QOL is going to be hard to come by. I'm also not sure what the expectation is in the aviation industry for how long you stay at a particular job, but there are plenty of places with a training contract for at least a year and I would expect that when there's a type rating getting paid for, it looks bad to stay there for less than a year and would lead to some difficulty getting hired at the next place.

What say you, pilots? What is the expectation for longevity in the industry?

Sorry, can't comment on this. I am not a professional pilot.

 

[Roller]

This is a odd site, where someone asks question about being a professional pilot and a ton of people who are NOT professional pilots respond

Perhaps I should join a dentist or CPA site and answer questions on being a dentist or CPA, I mean I did my own taxes once and I floss

 

[Mikey52]

Roller, what good tips, or life experiences, did you add to the conversation?

 

[Larry in TN]

I currently bid schedules with three work-blocks per month so that I only commute three times. This requires that I have at least one block of five days (a 3-day trip touching a 2-day trip). It also gives me some nice blocks of days off. I'm in the middle of ten days off right now.

Other guys I fly with complain when flying a 3-day trip that it is too long. They live close to their base. Some fly only one-day trips going home every night. They live very close to their base and are pretty senior to hold that as the one-days tend to have more pay credit per day.

Then you have the widebody guys. They have more days off, due to the higher-credit trips, and only one leg per duty period. Guys get on the widebody and never want to leave. I've been around the world. Now, I like to stay closer to home (+/- 2 time zones).

At previous employers I've worked schedules that were 14-on/14-off on a 28-day bid period. I really liked the 14 days off. The 14-on wasn't as much fun. Always had to do laundry on the road. Another previous employer was mostly 7-on/8-on trips. Again, more frequent big blocks of days off that I liked.

You do need a spouse who has an above average level of independence. You also have to watch out for them becoming used to doing everything by themselves and being left out when you're home. It's hard for them to understand just how fatigued you are after coming home from two weeks on the other side of the world.

I did 15 years of cargo. Liked it at first, when I was young and could sleep 10 hours straight during the daylight hours, but that fades with age. Everywhere you go is very industrial. Warehouses and sort centers. The passenger terminal is more civilized, IMO. I prefer being there.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

I have these exact same concerns. I have done the 9-5 for 25 years, and moving to 121 brings up these same things.
I know the first night I am away, I am going to get a call "THERES WATER COMING OUT FROM BEHIND THE THING!"

The positives I guess are the kids are 16 / 17 so the amount of time we spend together will probably be the same.
My wife is very encouraging and already making lists of places she is going to visit with the flight benefits.
Our parents all also live in our town so we can lean on them if needed.
When I am home I am going to be home. That part makes me happy.
In IT, every freaking vacation, The laptop comes with me and I get so tired of putting family on the back burner on my time to knock **** out real quick.

Totally honesty here, my biggest concern is being lonely. I think I would prefer to start late so I can land, go to the hotel and go to bed.
I think if I finished the day at noon and was away in some other city with nothing going on, I will be hyper aware that I am doing nothing and away from my family
which sounds kind of sad. If I start the day late, it feels fine because I get up and prep for the flight, and I am getting ready. "getting ready" feels productive.

I am aware I don't have the class date yet so the cart is in front of the horse but ^^^ That is what my brain is doing about the next chapter.


In the mean time, I am starting the School of Dad Stuff.
Here's how to turn the water off by the curb.
Here is how the pool works. etc...

I assume like anything, we will adapt and whatever it becomes will be the new normal.

 

[kayoh190]

I don't like long stretches away. Other than long course training I've never been gone for longer than four days, and on the narrowbody I've always focused on lines that prioritize two or three days trips. I've done the turn thing too, but I don't like going back and forth to work more than once per week, so a mix of high value two and three day trips has always been how I bid. The problem with this is that high value also tends to mean the trips aren't particularly commutable, so you have to live in base.

The widebody has really changed my lifestyle. It has me doing more four day trips, but doing the longer haul stuff allows me to fly an entire month in only three trips. I bid to leave Sunday nights, so a four day trip has me leaving the house at 8pm and returning Wednesday at 8am (a three day Europe will have me back midafternoon or early evening Tuesday). Late departures mean I get to spend the entire day with my family on Sunday, including dinner and putting my daughter to bed. On Wednesday I'll be wiped, but I can be home in time to have breakfast with my daughter before school. I'll get in a good nap while she's at school, then take over from the nanny once she's home that afternoon. So from my family's standpoint they lose me on Mondays and Tuesdays, and if I fly only long haul - only three times per month. That's pretty awesome. The flip side is I'm flying back side of the clock on both ends, which is harder on my body. That's not awesome. So lately I've been settling on two longer trips, a shorter three day Europe, and maybe fill out the month with a two day London. I'll also bid short call from time to time and sit at home all month, but that's another situation that requires living in base.

So that's what works for me, but I fly with plenty of folks that love stacking trips together to be home for longer stretches. I don't think you'll really know what you like until you try it and see what works for your home life. The nice thing about the airline side is you get to completely change your strategy on a month to month basis, so if long stretches aren't working for you, try the three on/four off thing for a bit and see what you think.

 

[Bell206]

I would be very happy to hear tips from pro pilots (or other occupations, @traumamed) who deal with high travel fractions.

I worked some sort of 1/1 schedule (7/7, 14/14, etc.) for most of my aviation career. Some was close to home, some was far. Bottomline it is very subjective to the person and their family. Have personally seen it overly strain marriages and relationships especially when its use is not part of the local "cultural." On the flip side, if your family unit is solid and your better half is independent and resourceful while you're gone, it can provide blocks of free time to pursue other interests. Unfortunately, it hard to see its effect on life until you work the schedule. But if not being around for Xmas for 6 years in a row or always seem to be working for those "important" days is a potential issue, it may cause some additional hardships you'll never see or understand working a 9 to 5, 5/2 job.

 

[RyanB]

This is a odd site, where someone asks question about being a professional pilot and a ton of people who are NOT professional pilots respond

Perhaps I should join a dentist or CPA site and answer questions on being a dentist or CPA, I mean I did my own taxes once and I floss

I think everyone is standing by to hear about your qualifications. It seems your plan of action is simply to insert one self and claim superiority, while attacking others.

 

[CJones]

Not a professional pilot, so apparently I shouldn't respond, but I like to live dangerously in this virtual world...

For the past several years, I've been doing project-based consulting work which means I'm usually gone 4-5 days per week when I am gone, but when I am home, I don't go to the office so I am 'home' (even though everyone else is at school during the day). When I first started travelling heavily for work, there was definitely a learning curve for everyone, but eventually we found our groove. My wife figured out her 'system', and I did everything I could to help her find that system - either by not complaining about paying for some sort of extra occasional 'convenience' or by making her feel confident in saying 'No' when the boys or school or sports or whatever wants to do something 'extra' which doesn't fit into the system easily. Now we're to the point that if I'm home for more than 3-4 weeks in a row, my wife starts looking at me like "Don't you have somewhere you need to go?"

As someone else mentioned, she has reaped the benefits of my travel points/miles/etc. which helps smooth things over as well. I made a comment last week that I was going to have to make a short-notice trip* and she said "Oh well.. We can use the miles."

*Note about short notice trips - My wife is a lot more adaptable to planned travel. When I have to make short notice (<1 week out), it has more potential to disrupt her system and we have to spend a little more time looking at schedules.

 

[jordane93]

I usually do 4, 3 day trips per month. So I get about 18 days off. Leave day one late afternoon, 24 hour layover, then come back day 3 early-late afternoon. It helps that my wife stays at home with my daughter so we don’t have to worry about day care. Also both our parents are within a 45 minute drive so they help out if we’re in a bind. Scheduling things is easy and hard at the same time. If it’s in the immediate future, I know my days off. If it’s in a month or two, it’s a toss up. I have decent seniority so I can usually bid for the days off I need so we usually just schedule something and then in a few months I’ll have to remember to bid off for it. I like that I don’t take my work home and honestly probably travel/spend less time in hotels than some people that travel for work.

 

[Roller]

I think everyone is standing by to hear about your qualifications. It seems your plan of action is simply to insert one self and claim superiority, while attacking others.

I already made a comment about that and prior mentioned what I do for a living

Aside from what I already said, to start I’d try to get a fixed schedule, if you can bank on having the same pattern of 7/7 it will be easier on family as it’s predictable

Living near base it nice as you can use mandatory rest times to go do something with family

 

[hindsight2020]

you already know the answer, it's gonna come down to the expectations at the home. People who started their marriages with the man already dipping out for a week and the wife expected to raise the kids de facto single parent, tend to be ok (hell, you might even become golfing friends with her boyfriend/work spouse lol). Those who pivot to that agrrement mid-go tend to have friction. Those who are cHilDfReEE, well that's playing this game of real-life DOOM on god cheat mode, so they're moot (and not just in evolutionary terms lol).

I'm currently on what essentially is a 5/2, and it's been b.r.u.t.a.l, add to that a working spouse doing opposite schedules to mine. Paper marriage by another name. I've turned it into a 4/3 with (one stint of 5/2 a month) by burning down the mil version of PTO and a very understanding commander who can't afford to lose any more full time help. That makes it barely survivable for me, with 3 more years of this ish to go. The commute is drivable, so it doesn't eat an entire day off since I dip out early on the last day. If I had to get on a commercial plane on top of that, no workie, I'd have to quit for the sake of my health and my marriage.

My sensitive point is the weekends due to the kid; most pro jobs are gonna run through the weekend for the "new guy", whatever the heck that is or looks like (you're talking 135, most people giving you data points are 121). There's those who don't need weekend off, so again some in that camp will shoulder-shrug at your plight. Again, all this stuff is very personal scenario dependent.

This little imprudence of mine for the next 3 years has taught me what I already knew: I can't do 7/7 | 8/6| 14/14 with a child in the home, nor would I want to. Currently on a fake 4/3 and that's driving it to work. Granted, there are 7/7s where you're a firefighter (fixed wing EMS) and you can be close to the house during the day. I looked at those, but the overnight 7 on night week (they flip flop since the operation is 24hrs) is a non-starter at my age, otherwise I'd be on that like white on rice. cargo 135 is 5/2 and home every night, but the duty days are too long to be of use at the house (and that's usually what 121 people refer to when pushing back on 5/2 pedestrians gum flapping having "more time" at home, quality vs quantity etc). It also doesn't pay enough to be worth the pivot at my stage in life.

Your household is probably closer to banker hour types (mine is) than most airline guys on here. I'd keep the setup you got right now if I were you; I don't think the 7/7 is gonna be pleasant, unless it's a local out n back type setup (EMS, small fry 135). If it's name brand 91k/135 and the 6 nights are full up gone? I think you're gonna have trouble in paradise my man, given your current status quo. good luck to ya.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Well, there's a few things I'm a bit apprehensive about:

* Not being nearby to save the day when necessary for my wife and kids. Luckily, my in-laws live about a half hour away and are extremely generous with their time, but darnit I like to save the day!
* Missing out on time with my family.
* Not being able to do anything that meets once a week. (I was in a band that meets on Tuesday nights, for example.)

My first comment is that in the last 38 years of my aviation career, I can’t imagine these not being a problem without an on/off schedule.

That said, I’m going to go part time before the end of the year, so basically two weeks on a month. I’m only seeing this stuff getting better, as I’ll be able to go with my wife to visit the grandkids, and I’ll be able to put some form of schedule into my time off to do some things on a regular basis. We’ll be able to plan what we’re going to do “next month” and beyond.

 

[Zeldman]

I used to fly 20/10 or 15/15 in Alaska. And I lived in Texas. Travel between the two places was jump seating. Sometimes I made it in 3 legs, sometimes more.

Sure, there were times when it was tough. But I had a choice, make it work or work at Walmart. I did what I had to do to make it work, and the companies I worked for did not do anything to make it easier. But it was my job. I adapted and made it work.

I will echo others, if the wife ain't good with the your time away from home, then there will be problems. And if work interferes with home life, then it might not be the right job.

 

[TCABM]

I’ll share what learned through my military career that saw everything from fly out & backs 10x and month to deploying for up to 9 months at a time (13 total deployments; half married w/kids).

If you’re not already having this top level conversation about your fears/concerns with the wife/kids, you’re already behind the eight ball. Like it or not, they get a vote and sometimes that vote hinges on upfront honesty. Here’s the plusses/minuses.

Second, understand the relationship dynamics change. You’re now forcing the other spouse into being the “head of household” while you support them as best as possible. When you come home, you don’t get to put the king’s crown back on. It is what it is and if you/your wife/kids can’t deal with that, then the change isn’t for you.

Routine commitments may have to change. Any set routine has to conform to your new schedule. And time away while at home is just more time away. That’s the hard facts of the choices you make.

Traveling on either side of the block is just another day away from home from the wife/kids perspective. For you, the outbound day is a stressor because things beyond your control may prevent from being at the expected time/place to start your block. Heading home can be a stressor, too. Tough balancing act that can leave you with animosity towards your employer for having put you in this position to begin with. Except they didn’t; you made the choice to apply for and accept the position.

Zoom/skype/whatever has changed the landscape being away from home. No longer is communication by post card or a 15 min call once a week a thing.

There’s no right answer to any of the questions but, like money/budget conversations, avoiding the subject with your family won’t result in some magical outcome.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Not a professional pilot, so apparently I shouldn't respond, but I like to live dangerously in this virtual world...

I specifically asked for anyone with block schedules to respond in the OP, so @Roller can... Well, insert whatever here.

My sensitive point is the weekends due to the kid; most pro jobs are gonna run through the weekend for the "new guy", whatever the heck that is or looks like (you're talking 135, most people giving you data points are 121).

This place is 7/7 Tuesday through Monday so that you do get a full weekend off every other weekend. That's definitely a plus.

This little imprudence of mine for the next 3 years has taught me what I already knew: I can't do 7/7 | 8/6| 14/14 with a child in the home, nor would I want to.

Sigh... Two kids, 8 and 2. :/

Your household is probably closer to banker hour types (mine is) than most airline guys on here. I'd keep the setup you got right now if I were you; I don't think the 7/7 is gonna be pleasant, unless it's a local out n back type setup (EMS, small fry 135). If it's name brand 91k/135 and the 6 nights are full up gone? I think you're gonna have trouble in paradise my man, given your current status quo. good luck to ya.

It's a done deal. Economy being what it is (and is becoming), options were limited.

I'm definitely curious about some of the more specific tips and tricks people use to make things work, like @CJones Rachel's "system".

 

[traumamed]

I'm definitely curious about some of the more specific tips and tricks people use to make things work, like @CJones Rachel's "system".

Having been doing what in my field is known as "supercommuting" for years, this has been an interesting thread to follow. My wife and I did not really research the experiences of others beforehand. We made the decision that it was an acceptable lifestyle for us, that it was better than the status quo at the time, agreed that we wouldn't care what other people thought, and jumped into it head first. The different perspectives are fun to see.

My own experience has taught me that it is totally doable for my relationship. YMMV. Custom-tailor a plan that fits your unique marriage.

In retrospect, I can identify three things that gave us advantages. First, my wife works part-time and does so of her own desire as opposed to necessity. Second, we were and are financially comfortable more than we probably deserve. Third, my wife by her nature embraces and enjoys having independence. Reading some of these posts has made me realize that these three factors alone probably played a huge role in why this has been a successful venture for us.

The first time I left knowing I would be gone for two weeks, I was terrified. Up to that point, my wife and I had spent less than 15 nights apart in nearly 10 years of marriage. Now a few years into it, it's totally routine. I give her and my daughter a quick hug goodbye, tell my wife to tell our son the same when he gets off school, and that I'll see them all in two weeks. She says a quick goodbye and goes back to what she was doing. No big deal at all. We text all the time, we talk by phone/video chat when we need to, and communication never really falls off at all. I play multiplayer games with my son on various apps, help him with homework via phone or text when my wife can't, and even discipline when necessary (in our house "I'll get your father!" might have "-on the phone!" attached to the end of it). We might be watching the same things at the same time, like sports events, and can text about it. (Go Lightning!) The physical distance isn't nearly the big deal we thought it would be.

 

[4RNB]

Not a pro pilot here.
Never had 7 on and 7 off schedule.

We worked two on, two off, three on, three off schedule our entire careers. The three day stretches were always Friday/Saturday/Sunday. Twelve hour shifts, very long. No kids and really did not feel much love or have good energy after long days, never understood how folks could do it. We worked the same schedule. The downside of this schedule was really just the physical and emotional exhaustion working mostly on our feet, tending to the needs of others, and after a 3 day stretch the first day off was often shot.

The positives of this life were immense!
-we had time off both on weekends and weekdays. Offices were open, stores were open, our schedule never prevented us from visiting a place based upon open hours.
-we could tell you years in advance our schedule and thus say if we would be there for an invite.
-Vacations were plentiful compared to a 9-5 job. By using 20 or maybe 40 hours of benefit time we could have 7 or 11 days off in a row. As a new employee it was possible to have nine weeks off a year using this 20 hour method.

Focus on the positives?

Jobs are about trading our time for money. Anyone that works long stretches on and off is going to have an incredible amount of time around family and should not have "wish I were around more" regrets. Implied in these discussions are the big bucks supporting a family, you are doing a good job as hunter gatherer.

The things that I hated about my job could really get under my skin. I chose to turn this negativity into fully focusing on a high level goal of retiring early. I lived below my means, maxed 401K, saved in Roth, paid down debt, and used compound interest in my favor. Jumped ship at 52 and get to enjoy GA without complaining about fuel prices.

You all know it, but these are high level problems to deal with.

 

[Busflyer]

The nice thing about 7 on/7 off is that if you can drop a week of vacation on that week then you can get some 3 week off breaks throughout the year.
(Depending on how your vacation rules work)

 

[TCABM]

I will say one helpful thing we learned was that annual special days like birthday/holidays, etc. can be planned around. One year, we talked with the kids about a deployment that would have me gone for Christmas and two birthdays.

We decided a personal card to be opened on the specific days while the family celebrations would happen after we got back. They got a say in how that looked and provided them cool stories to tell their friends later.

 

[hindsight2020]

Jumped ship at 52 and get to enjoy GA without complaining about fuel prices.

Funny you mention that. One of the ironies is that I found myself accidentally on the FIRE train 2 years ago... as a function of selling the airplane lol. Of course, that's what happens when you realize your so called hobby has a more expensive footprint than your housing debt lol. Even an entire foundation repair didn't approach half of what they wanted for that old timey lawnmower engine repair (all in). Goose is cooked.

Your other point is still valid. It is indeed first world problems to "debate" what burger-flipper pay job I want to half-arsedly "pursue" to get me through the 10 years I'll have left to 57, when they drag me kicking and screaming out of the ejection seat here in a few (cue Uncle Rico jokes lol).

 

[kayoh190]

Your other point is still valid. It is indeed first world problems to "debate" what burger-flipper pay job I want to half-arsedly "pursue" to get me through the 10 years I'll have left to 57, when they drag me kicking and screaming out of the ejection seat here in a few (cue Uncle Rico jokes lol).

Doesn't your wife work? I'd do the kept man thing. Maybe find a Pilatus to eff around in on a contract basis - just enough so she thinks you're 'working'.

 

[Albany Tom]

I shouldn't comment on this because I don't have any direct experience, but it's the Internet so I'm going to anyway. A good friend of mine is married to a Navy guy. Their thing is that he'll go out on deployment for months at a time, leaving her behind with the two kids, one of which has special needs. So 7 on, 7 off, she'd just laugh at how easy that would be...BUT. There's a catch. They have a bunch of support stuff within that community, and it takes a huge toll on relationships.

I'd say that everyone on here that flies anything, for fun or profit, and didn't inherit that ability has some experience with how to deal with work/life balance. I'm not aware of any legal occupation that will let you fly an airplane that doesn't also want to suck up all of your time. Also think the answer to that work/life thing is going to be different for everyone. Best you can hope for is at the end of your days you picked something you can live with. In my experience talking w/ people in their last few weeks, which along with a lot of people here I have far too much experience with, nobody wished they worked more...but you have to keep people fed in the meantime.

 

[sourdough44]

It’s not all or nothing, obviously, things ebb & flow. What I mean, seniority drives the schedule. After the initial handful of years, bidding into a certain seat, or not, is a biggie.

One can drift senior in a seat, then have a better schedule. One can also choose to live close to work, bid any seat early, forever being junior with the schedule.

No ‘free lunch’, or anything. Yeah, could work 9-5, & take work home with you many nights, maybe work late. One spouse complains the other works to much, the next thinks their partner a deadbeat.

 

[iRyan]

I think everyone is standing by to hear about your qualifications. It seems your plan of action is simply to insert one self and claim superiority, while attacking others.

He's not wrong though. APC is a better place for these types of questions. That being said, for me, I try to avoid anything longer than 3 day trips. Having done a four day recently, I felt like I was gone for a month. My partner felt the same, too.

 

[Groundpounder]

I worked a 7/7 schedule, which later turned into an 8/6 schedule at one point in my career. On one hand it was nice cause I could plan out things for a year in advance, and the chunk of time off was enjoyable, but if something fell on one of my "on" days, I was screwed because there weren't any way to split up my days on. The only option was to find someone that was willing to trade their days off, which meant the both of you had to work a 14 or 16 day stretch. Not many people were willing to do that. Now I'm at an airline, and I can pick and choose when I work, and there are lots of options for schedule manipulation to get what I desire.

 

[CJones]

I'm definitely curious about some of the more specific tips and tricks people use to make things work, like @CJones Rachel's "system".

I got her up to speed on your conundrum the other night and she said "Huh.. I guess I never sat down and thought about it, we just figured it out." So, sorry not a lot of help there. ha.

What I think has worked well is that she is a list-for-everything kind of person - it started as random sticky note type lists on the fridge or on the table by the couch, but she has migrated to apps on her phone. She is pretty consistent about literally checking her lists twice. The kicker there is that if she misses something on a day, she doesn't lose her mind over it, she just adjusts the next list accordingly - it's not like her lists are a "do or die" type list, it just helps organize what could potentially become chaos.

Also, about every 2-3 months, she sits down and fills out our shared Google Calendar for as long as we have consistent items - weekly piano lesson, BETA club before school, Academic bowl practice after school, soccer practice 2x week, basketball practice 2x week, soccer and basketball games on weekend, misc. fun stuff (Braves tickets, night out with friends, etc. etc.). She'll also put my travel on there (if it is known) so she can know that "Well, I'm going to have to get Nana to cover piano lesson that week, because I have to do ____", but it's not like the world crumbles, it is what it is. We don't have a TON of spontaneity in our schedule, but we still find time to do fun stuff.

Lastly, I think what helps her is that she isn't worried about me when I'm gone. She has gotten to the point that all she knows is that I'm gone - she doesn't know where, and she doesn't know what project, she just knows I'm not at home. We've had several instances of seeing something on TV and I say "Oh yeah, I've seen that. It's pretty cool. We should go there sometime" and she says "Wait, you've been to ____" and I say "Yeah. Remember - it was a couple months ago when I did that crazy three city trip" and she says "Nope. I don't know where you go. I just know you're gone." I still forward her my travel itinerary so she can keep track if she needs it for an emergency, but she's not spending brain cycles worrying about my schedule or whatnot. I think that is something that she learned over time as a way to free up brain/worry capacity.

ETA: Follow-up to the 'she doesn't know where I am' thing - I also stopped sending her pictures of random cool things I see or cool meals that I have. Unless it's something like "Hey, we'll see this when were here together in a few weeks/months" or a weird once-in-a-lifetime type thing, I don't blast her with a lot of stuff like that. I think it started making her feel like I was out 'living it up' while she was stuck at home slogging through running a household (I guess I could have sent her pictures of the 8 hrs of conference room meetings to even things out). And honestly, the stuff I was sending wasn't that interesting anyway - I just wanted to share it WITH HER. It will be a change for you as well - similar to what 6PC mentioned - it can feel lonely to be visiting interesting places, but not be able to share it with the people you actually want to share it with.

 

[hindsight2020]

Doesn't your wife work? I'd do the kept man thing. Maybe find a Pilatus to eff around in on a contract basis - just enough so she thinks you're 'working'.

Eventually that's the plan. Finding low-footprint work that pays more than fast food manager has been elusive. I gotta get smart on the insurance requirements and such, given I'd be entering that space with zero time in type. Maybe simulator type jobs as a gateway? Zero clue how that parlays into insurance requirements for contract PC-12s and KAs.

Unfortunately the only mil ex-coworker I know who didn't go 121 (or quit flying outright, we got more of those than people assume) after retirement, went all super cryptic about his local CJ-? pt91 4-pilot outfit pay and scheds; I'm not that married to the idea to play annoying "I got a secret" games with him about it.

 

[kayoh190]

I gotta get smart on the insurance requirements and such, given I'd be entering that space with zero time in type. Maybe simulator type jobs as a gateway? Zero clue how that parlays into insurance requirements for contract PC-12s and KAs.

I've been out of that side of the game for 15 years, but at my 135 we brought otherwise qualified guys into a PIC position in both the Pilatus and King Air 200 with only a course at FlightSafety. Prior to that I cut my turbine teeth in a Cheyenne II for a small 91 operation, and insurance wanted 10 hours in type. So I flew around with one of the other pilots for 10 hours, sometimes with passengers and sometimes empty (which is when we practiced single engine work, etc) before I was let loose. I'm sure someone around here can speak to today's reality, though.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I've been out of that side of the game for 15 years, but at my 135 we brought otherwise qualified guys into a PIC position in both the Pilatus and King Air 200 with only a course at FlightSafety. Prior to that I cut my turbine teeth in a Cheyenne II for a small 91 operation, and insurance wanted 10 hours in type. So I flew around with one of the other pilots for 10 hours, sometimes with passengers and sometimes empty (which is when we practiced single engine work, etc) before I was let loose. I'm sure someone around here can speak to today's reality, though.

In the TBM, a week at Simcom got them into the right seat and the insurance minimum for PIC was 100 hours in type. That's for low total time and zero turbine experience tho.

 

[hindsight2020]

my 135 we brought otherwise qualified guys into a PIC position in both the Pilatus and King Air 200 with only a course at FlightSafety.

That's actually encouraging to hear.

In the TBM, a week at Simcom got them into the right seat and the insurance minimum for PIC was 100 hours in type. That's for low total time and zero turbine experience tho.

Do you happen to know if working as simulator instructor in these types as a day job alleviate time-in-type insurance restrictions for Hi-Lo guys (high turbine pic, low time in type)? Or is the insurance/contract market driven by actual flown time-in-type alone?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Do you happen to know if working as simulator instructor in these types as a day job alleviate time-in-type insurance restrictions for Hi-Lo guys (high turbine pic, low time in type)?

I believe so... At least one of the Simcom instructors was doing flight instruction for one of the other guys I trained with and he (the instructor) did not have much flight time in type IIRC.

 

[Htaylor]

The nice thing about 7 on/7 off is that if you can drop a week of vacation on that week then you can get some 3 week off breaks throughout the year.
(Depending on how your vacation rules work)

This. I work a 7/7 (pilot) schedule with very generous time off benefits. A week of vacation here and there makes for several 3 week blocks of time off per year. I have yet to see anybody turned down for vacation requests.