Landing at VFR Minimums

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by mjburian, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Always good to have a Miller Light logo dead center in your aviation video, too... perhaps a future sponsor?

    :) :) :) Hahahahaha...
     
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  2. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

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    Lots of old people hate music :stirpot:
     
  3. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

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    I'm not sure I could handle airspeed being alive AND ailerons active at the same time. That's yugeee!
     
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  4. mjburian

    mjburian Cleared for Takeoff

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    You mean your Johnson bar, right? :eek2:
     
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  5. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    "Porpoising can also be caused by improper airspeed control."
    Airplane Flying Handbook
     
  6. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That is incorrect.

    I can try to land at vNE, zero porpoising, now I'll just fly all the way down the runway and not land, but no porpoise. Vise versa, you can porpoise at a low airspeed.

    Airspeed has zero to do with porpoising

    That's caused by fundamentally poor flying skills and yanking forward and back on the stick like a mindless monkey.

    It's impossible to porpoise if you pretend there is a ratchet on the yoke
     
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  7. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    Please send your corrections to AFS630comments@faa.gov.

    That's actually not what porpoising is. You are describing PIO.
     
  8. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    A) How many people actually know what a ratchet is anymore? :)
    B) Half of my ratchets don't work right because they were cheap crap. :) :) :) :p :stirpot:
     
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  9. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    Welcome to our happy, although somewhat dysfunctional, family.
     
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  10. F01LA

    F01LA Line Up and Wait

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    Nice video, and looked like good experience. Sorry for the thread sidetrack about speed, just something I noticed.
     
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  11. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sent.


    So if the pilot never puts the stick forward, does the ratchet thing, it will still porpoise if you cross the numbers at like 100kts in a 172??

    If so, sounds like the issue now is a MAJOR rigging problem or a flight control failure somewhere on the plane.
     
  12. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform Pattern Altitude

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    Good video, enjoyed it, thank you. The less opportunities I get to fly, the more videos like this fill the void.
     
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  13. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    One if the common bad reactions to floating due to too much airspeed is forcing the airplane down by lowering the nose, producing a nosewheel first touchdown and all its related consequences, including porpoising and wheelbarrow is. It's a classic Mooney error but works just as "well" with other types.
     
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  14. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Bingo, not a speed issue, and crap reaction issue.

    Just like stalls don't cause spins, crap reactions to stalls cause spins.
     
  15. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    That's going to be a matter of perspective. Some would say a very common albeit incorrect pilot reaction to too much airspeed in the landing flare has"nothing to do with airspeed." Others would say it has at least "something" to do with airspeed.
     
  16. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Fact is it's a result of having a really bad foundation, getting trained by really bad CFIs and possibly having a few CFIs let some stuff slip on BFRs that they shouldn't.
     
  17. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    But but but....I do love music but not on flying videos such as the OP's.
     
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  18. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    That doesn't mean stalls "having nothing to do with spins". Bad analogy.

    If A causes B, and B causes C, could it not be said that A causes C, at least in part?
     
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  19. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    Would a really bad CFI include someone who gets a porpoise and a pilot-induced oscillation mixed up, like you just did?
     
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  20. dembro

    dembro Pre-Flight

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    No worries! I can take it! I actually have a video in the can already where landing speed is a pretty significant plot point. How do you land on a spot? Good speed control!

    Sounds like I should make a video about the centerline too, though I'm not sure YouTube's TOS will allow for any dry humping :rofl:
     
  21. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sure I'm horrible, but funny thing I can cross the fence way over vref and NEVER have those problems, same with my students.

    Probably just a fluke lol

    Call it a tuna fish for all I care, it happens before or after the wheels touch, same chit, and the same fundamentals stop this from ever being a issue.

    Again NOTHING to do with airspeed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  22. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    Perhaps. You won't get any argument from me that 100 kts in the flare will not produce a porpoise in a 172 if there is enough runway and the pilot continues to hold it off until the mains touchdown first (BTDT with a throttle priblem). And being at the perfect airspeed but putting the nose down will. But most accidents are the result of a chain of errors. In this case it's a bad approach with too much energy being compounded by forcing the airplane down. In your spin example, it the error of an unintentional stall being compounded by improper correction.

    Good CFIs attempt to correct the chain at all of its links.

    I guess we disagree on the definition of the word "something."
     
  23. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Just saying both are problems, both need to be addressed, just they are different problems.
     
  24. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    I'm sure you can, and I'm sure you can stall without spinning too. As can most (hopefully all) of us. I explained how that's a bad analogy.
     
  25. iflyvfr

    iflyvfr Cleared for Takeoff

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    dembro, enjoyed the vid. Was it cold out?? ;) How many hours do you have logged? Like you, I have flown with an experienced pilot in some really poor viz. Yours was invaluable experience so when you're VFR and not instrument rated and the WX takes a dump, you will have been there before. Last summer flying to Iowa the WX was CAVU until the last 60 nauticals or so, and then it dropped to about 6 miles very quickly. It was quite startling. But I had all sorts of outs behind me just like you and completed the flight without issues. My strategy is to be spring loaded to turn back and land. I've done it a few times and did not regret it one iota...except the one time at Joliet when I was forced to sit in a bar for a few hours and watch Geraldo!
     
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  26. dembro

    dembro Pre-Flight

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    Hey @iflyvfr - haha it WAS cold out, lol. 7F. Coldest I've ever flown was a few years back about -7F. That hurt a bit more, but luckily the plane's cabin heat can keep up. I have about 185 hours - about 1/3 of which is in J3s. I'm kind of surprised it took me this long to get to visibility this low, but agree that the experience was invaluable. Thanks for watching! Sorry about the Geraldo!
     
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  27. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    Ok so this have bothered me for a while and it does every now and then.... it seems if I keep the nose of the plane aligned with the centerline, the aircraft nose wheel will be on the centerline, but that's not the fact....why?? My CFI taught me in centerline with ur mid torso, and it works

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
  28. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    That's what I have been told too, snow is already crystallized form, unless there is most, or moisture in the air judged from temp, dew point spear, just snow is not going to stick

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
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  29. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer Pattern Altitude

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    Let's just say that excessive airspeed can be a contributing factor.
     
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  30. iamtheari

    iamtheari Cleared for Takeoff

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    We’re like Anna Karenina*, but with more airplanes!

    * “All happy families are alike. All unhappy families are unhappy in their own way.”
     
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  31. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    OP, loved the vid, will subscribe. I am a cold flyer as well, venturing out tomorrow with a prediction -7 high . Welcome to POA, get an AOA, so that we don't have to argue about PIO and porpoise and airspeed

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
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  32. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Nope

    Like I said, I can cross the fence at VNE in your place and never have a PIO or porpoising situation.
     
  33. Sinistar

    Sinistar Line Up and Wait

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    Welcome aboard. I really enjoyed the video! Keep them coming. I'm close to my PPL and learning as much as I can. Youre a tail wheel pilot, that should get you far around here!

    I'm learning in our 182, the heater rocks at these temps. That's why I asked about the jacket on the way back. My coldest flight was +4F this winter. The worst is the preflight and pumping gas!

    I've been using the Halos lately and think they're awesome. Hopefully you figure out the glitch.

    And sweet plane. With 14 in the club is it hard to get time?
     
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  34. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    Nice video. From a safety perspective, my only recommendation would be to find a better place to mount the cockpit facing GoPro camera. It seems to take a fair amount of space right in the middle and could block view of other traffic.
     
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  35. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Knuckle smashers, into the trash barrel first time that happens.
     
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  36. dembro

    dembro Pre-Flight

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    Thanks for subscribing! Funny you should mention the AOA, that's the ONE thing my partners aren't interesting in spending money on for the plane. I even tried to explain about how fighter jets use it but....

    Thanks for having me! Jacket on the way back was mostly due to an extremely frigid and exposed preflight at KGRB. Gotta figure out what's up with the Claritys, I love the comfort. With 14 in the club it's surprisingly easy to find time (especially in the winter) - the only time it's been hard is when the plane leaves for a few weeks on a longer adventure.

    Thanks! The front facing camera doesn't seem to block too much from the pilot's seat but you are correct that it could get in the way. Maybe it's all my J3 time where you can't see anything half the time that has me feeling more comfortable with it. That camera also really ruins the shot from the back of the plane. Some other folks have mounted there's up high, might try that next.
     
  37. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude

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    this brand? :)
    [​IMG]
     
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  38. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    Why? For exactly the reason I said. Parallax. When we try to center the airplane, we look to close and the angle from our eyes to the nose of the airplane skews the view. On the other hand when we look further out and center ourselves, our eyes and brain work together to center the airplane. It's exactly the same way as we center our cars in the lane of traffic.
     
  39. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude

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    I've never really landed off center, so I can't confirm that....but it sounds interesting.
     
  40. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer Pattern Altitude

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    Yep.

    Maybe you can, but a student is a whole 'nuther ball o' wax. As you know, there are many benefits to reducing airspeed to nearly a stall when you're two feet off the deck.
     
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