KSMO TO KONT QUESTION

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Adam

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Adam2
Hi all. You guys gave me so much great advice before my flight to KSNA that i wanted to ask about this flight.

I'm going KSMO to KONT. Using flight following. Curious if there's anything i should know about landing a PA28 Piper Cherokee there. Planning on flying most of the flight at 3500 and using the FBO Jet Center at KONT.

Advice i got for KSNA were things like that they'd clear me for Right Traffic for 20R and then when i got closer they'd amend that and have me cross mid field to make left traffic for 20L. That was exactly what they did. Very helpful.

In advance, thanks all!!!
 
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Who is going to be the PIC?
 
And you are asking others to plan the flight for you? Amazing
 
KA550, that's a bit harsh.

That said, the reply I had started typing 30 mins ago before having to take a phone call was to encourage the OP not to sweat it too much. There are a finite number of pattern entry combinations, and as long as you're talking to approach from a reasonable distance, they'll tell you what they need you to do to fit in with the arrivals/departures from the area.

I suppose there's nothing wrong with asking ahead of time to get some local knowledge, but NOT having that information should no erode your confidence about flying there one little bit. For example, if you had not known in advance that they might have you cross overhead midfield at SNA, would it really have made much difference on the day?
 
Thanks coma24.

wow KA550. That's just mean. i never asked anyone to flight plan for me. Read my post very carefully. I asked for any advice about what to expect. i already gave my altitude. clearly i have a plan in place already. May i make a suggestion, if you don't want to help someone... don't reply to a post. It's much simpler for everyone that way.

Coma24, i appreciate your reply very much. And you are correct, the day of my KSNA flight... had they changed my approach i just would have adjusted per instructions in the moment. Appreciate the pep talk.
 
KA550 said:
And you are asking others to plan the flight for you? Amazing
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Adam said:
I asked for any advice about what to expect..
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Yup that was a total Delta Bravo response. I am sure that he can look at a sectional like everyone else and plot a course, but what that sectional will NOT tell him is that he will most likely be told to stay north of the 10 freeway approcahing the field and then probably cross mid field for left downwind traffic... which makes watching the winds more critical as you are flying right along a ridge. That information comes from those of us that have flown that route in that area and are willing to share what we leanred vs be a reason that people are hesitant to ask questions because of jerk-wad comments like above.

Adam...remember, there are no stupid questions...only stupid pilots!
 
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Adam said:
Hi all. You guys gave me so much great advice before my flight to KSNA that i wanted to ask about this flight.

I'm going KSMO to KONT. Using flight following. Curious if there's anything i should know about landing a PA28 Piper Cherokee there. Planning on flying most of the flight at 3500 and using the FBO Jet Center at KONT.

Advice i got for KSNA were things like that they'd clear me for Right Traffic for 20R and then when i got closer they'd amend that and have me cross mid field to make left traffic for 20L. That was exactly what they did. Very helpful.

In advance, thanks all!!!
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Sounds like you'd be a good candidate for buying a copy of Optima's Pilots Guide (the blue binder).
 
Adam said:
Hi all. You guys gave me so much great advice before my flight to KSNA that i wanted to ask about this flight.

I'm going KSMO to KONT. Using flight following. Curious if there's anything i should know about landing a PA28 Piper Cherokee there. Planning on flying most of the flight at 3500 and using the FBO Jet Center at KONT.
In advance, thanks all!!!
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Departing SMO ,stay clear of the LAX Bravo. I'd just fly V186 and plan for the south runway at ONT. Guardian is on the south side of the field next to FedEx. Taxiway S2. Been there many times in my Cherokee. Easy peasy.

Have fun.
 
Thanks all! And it's exactly as Shawn was saying... just trying to get the inside scoop. I appreciate the pilot community and how we all help one another. Info like MAYBE i'll be told to stay north of the 10 and POSSIBLY told to cross midfield for left downwind traffic is always helpful. I really appreciate it all. That's why i love this site and the forums. And sorry KA550, i will ALWAYS ask questions. I'd appreciate it as a fellow pilot if you could learn a little more patience. Thanks.
 
KA550 said:
And you are asking others to plan the flight for you? Amazing
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Not just harsh, but completely..... The site won't let me type it, and if I dare use a letter out of place I'll be suspended for trying to circumnavigate the system (which I see once in every three posts).
 
Kritchlow said:
Not just harsh, but completely..... The site won't let me type it, and if I dare use a letter out of place I'll be suspended for trying to circumnavigate the system (which I see once in every three posts).
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I have to admit I scratched my head a bit, too.

Being told to cross midfield for a different approach is not at all a big deal. You can deal with that easily as it comes.

Having flown into several busy Class Cs in a light single, it's only slightly harder than the usual Class D. Some will have departure delays and may temporarily prohibit training, as the scheduled carriers get priority. Just get your butt off the runway as fast as you can.

Sometimes you get restrictions on approach, and it very often changes when you switch to Tower. Just do what they say.

Do read the A/FD. Always. KONT has a surprise in there. And always, always, always have the taxi diagram handy.
 
100% to what you are all saying. I'd always refer to the a/fd and always have a taxi diagram ready. And yes, technically its simple: do what ATC says (so long as you feel safe to comply... which should be 100% of the time). I guess for a much newer pilot like myself i love getting "insight" from seasoned pros. I hope that's ok on this site. Let me know for the future if advice into newer airports isn't the best use of these forums. I'd understand. I'm learning and open to thoughts (except mean ones ha ha).
 
KONT is dying for traffic. They are very easy to deal with. I have done practice IFR approaches there.

Just call far enough out so they can wake up and be alert when you are in their airspace.
 
What to expect? Here are my thoughts based on formerly being based at TOA and flying to places like CNO, SBD, REI, HMT, VCV and others in the area though not ONT.

* Large number of frequency changes for a pretty short flight. Be ready for them.
* Numerous traffic call outs but don't rely on them alone. Keep your eyes open. Lots of airports and traffic there.
* Being vectored for traffic and then being told to assume own navigation.
* Pay attention to whether you are cleared into the Bravo or not if you plan on penetrating it.
 
Adam said:
Let me know for the future if advice into newer airports isn't the best use of these forums. I'd understand. I'm learning and open to thoughts (except mean ones ha ha).
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It is the best use of this forum...just on this forum you have to have thick skin dealing with self righteous SuperPilots that will expel their omnipotent knowledge while bashing you not for your actual question, but rather the context and back story of your question decreeing you the worlds worst incompetent pilot ever to dawn the skies.

PREPARE TO BE JUDGED!...by a bunch of faceless nit-wads hiding behind a keyboard.
 
Shawn said:
It is the best use of this forum...just on this forum you have to have thick skin dealing with self righteous SuperPilots that will expel their omnipotent knowledge while bashing you not for your actual question, but rather the context and back story of your question decreeing you the worlds worst incompetent pilot ever to dawn the skies.

PREPARE TO BE JUDGED!...by a bunch of faceless nit-wads hiding behind a keyboard.
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HA! Genius. Thanks very much. Excuse me while i go put on my chainmail.
 
Adam, I see you are relatively new to POA, so first welcome and second do keep posting. By way of history we have pilots of many different skill levels and experience here. Just like the rest of the world we have some folks that are super friendly and helpful, some that are not and some that are super knowledgeable and helpful but don't necessarily communicate in the friendliest of ways. ( Sometimes we all need a kick in the pants now and then)

It seems you got some good answers to your post. I might recommend that if you are a new pilot ( do you mind sharing how much experience you have?) or are unfamiliar with a particular area or have a particular concern just say so as it might cut out some of the guff. On occasion we do get a pilot who for one reason or another seems unable to make a PIC decision and does ask others to tell him or her what to do so perhaps that is why you got the reaction that you did. Again welcome to POA and have a safe and Fun flight!!
 
Thanks AdamZ! Yep, new. Got PPL in December '15. While I've flown many of these routes in practice, I haven't as PIC. I'd never ask anyone to flight plan for me. Always looking for insight. But I trust my training very much.

I do appreciate your perspective and thanks for taking the time to type it up. Kind of you.

So far the pilots here are 99.99% kind and helpful, from my perspective. And their insight is great. Thanks.
 
asicer said:
Sounds like you'd be a good candidate for buying a copy of Optima's Pilots Guide (the blue binder).
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I used the Optima Pilots Guide to CA Airports back in the early 1990's before the internet. Extremely helpful for providing information about standard procedures, what to expect, where to park, visual landmarks not apparent on the chart, etc. The A/FD and charts leave a lot to be desired. When I got back into flying in 2012 after a 15 year hiatus, I figured they no longer published that book due to internet sites like Airnav and online forums where you can get advice (or chastising) from fellow pilots. It may be worth exploring that book again.

By the way KONT is so underutilized by the airlines you'll have both runways to yourself. I wouldn't sweat it.
 
Sounds like it's closer to KMRY than KFAT or KSJC. Trust your training, call ahead for the weird PPR for ground services (I guess you have to get the line guys out of the bar?), and have fun.

You don't really need to know their approach procedures in detail. It will vary some depending on traffic. And if it's really light, it may be just like Class D. My entire interaction with Monterey is generally "enter right base, cleared to land 28L." The other end of the spectrum is Fresno, when ANG and CalFire are both active. CalFire ops are amazing to watch for the kind of pace they can keep with the air tankers.
 
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RalphInCA said:
KONT is dying for traffic. They are very easy to deal with.
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Is this a recent change? I was based at KFUL about 5 years ago and would go to KCNO a few times a month, up to Big Bear, or over to Dagget. At that time ONT was usually less than friendly. Perhaps because I was always transitioning?
 
rolivi said:
Is this a recent change? I was based at KFUL about 5 years ago and would go to KCNO a few times a month, up to Big Bear, or over to Dagget. At that time ONT was usually less than friendly. Perhaps because I was always transitioning?
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I don't know if it's recent or not. All I know is I've recently been flying in and through their airspace a lot over the last few months, and have practiced IFR approaches into the airport and they are always very accommodating.
 
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Ah, the ignore feature is a wonderful thing. Don't worry, OP. Fair question. Filter the nonsense and have some FUN!
 
Good on you for seeking out all available information. You are a better pilot for it and your attitude of gathering as much info as you can will no doubt keep you safer in your flying career.

I have found all class C airports to be a piece of cake once you've read the a/fd and studied the sectional and taxi diagrams.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Kritchlow said:
Ahhh.... I don't think you have the big picture on this one.
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The picture I had was people criticizing OP who I assume is a fairly low time pilot for soliciting some advice while the top of the food chain pilots are getting far more help all of the time, both of which in my book are fine and dandy and increases the safety of the system. It also increases compliance with the FAR 91.103 which intends to increase said safety. I am a firm supporter of all pilots soliciting as much knowledge as possible and also a firm believer in the airline's use of dispatchers and other professionals in their ops center. I am sorry if you feel differently.

My comment was also meant as a tongue-in-cheek reference to all of the ATP bashing that goes on here.

This place is amazing.
 
Now now now. Let's not derail this thread further.

Either continue helping the OP in amazing fashion or agree that KA550's reply was unnecessarily hostile.

:D
 
If you are a flight simmer, I'd advise getting hooked up with PilotEdge.com. Their coverage area is mainly SoCal and the controllers are amazing. It's as close to 'real' flying I've encountered. If you plan on working towards your IR (if you want to get past that pesky marine layer) PilotEdge is an absolute must especially if you're already based in SoCal.
 
What you need to have is navigation to KONT and the right frequency for flight following out of KSMO. Tell KSMO tower where you are headed and then go there, start talking to flight following right away and don't fly into any D, C or B airspace (of which there is plenty around there) without being vectored by ATC. That means you have to beware of your altitudes. Once flight following is vectoring you, you are good to go. Just do what they tell you to. But you should make a back up plan in case you lose flight following. That is, be able to get there without it or be able and willing to turn around and come back to KSMO. KSMO in Airnav has the flight following frequencies listed for the direction you are going. Its complicated airspace but its doable. You dont want any clouds or reduced visibility complicating things. Bag it if the weather isnt good. Good luck!
 
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1) if you're talking to Socal, they will coordinate any Charlie/Delta transitions on your behalf. So, it's really only the Bravo you need to consciously stay out of.

2) if you request advisories to ONT while you're on the ground at SMO, my guess is that they'll issue you a squawk and dep freq on the spot, you don't have to agonize over finding the frequency in advance.

3) assuming the weather is good, there really shouldn't be any need to turn around and come back to SMO if for some reason one sector can't hand you off to the next. If that's the case, they will say, "radar services terminated, squawk VFR and for further advisories, try Socal Approach on 1xx.xx."

It should be a fun flight!
 
Thanks all. The flight was great. FF and ATC were not a concern at all. Since i'm VFR it was clouds / ceiling and mod chop. But it all worked out fine. KONT was very polite and helpful. I had 26L to myself coming and going. I appreciate all the great advice. It really set me at ease (yes... low hours for this new pilot) and knowing i can turn here for advice/insight is great.
 
Glad it went well and glad you feel you can still come here for advice. Just remember we are just one resource among many available and should not be the only one or even the first one you consult. Good luck.
 
@SkyDog58 PoA should be the first one! Yes, not the only one. Keep a salt shaker at hand since many grains will be needed. Thick skin and a BS filter are also required equipment. :)
 
Thanks all. Love the enthusiasm. And yes, SkyDog58... this is never my first stop. It's always a flight plan first, AFD, Sectional, and all the weather services avail. As someone said before... this is more like a pirep. Just good to hear what other pilots say. ATC never had to yell at me (and i heard another pilot violate Class C airspace and ATC got mad) and conducted a safe, well thought through flight but was prepared for change if need be (and i did with mod chop). You folks are all great to discuss with.
 
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