Kobe Bryant dead in helicopter crash

Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by jallen0, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Pre-takeoff checklist

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    So SVFR rules apply when transiting the Class C and Class D airspaces. After exiting the Class D, is the helo pilot required to adhere to normal cloud clearances? Operating in that area the Class E airspace begins 700' AGL correct? With an 1100 AGL Overcast it would be impossible to operate in the Class E adhering to VFR cloud clearances, as being 500 feet below the clouds would put you below the Class E, in which case you would be in Class G and need to remain clear of clouds with 1 mile vis, correct? Just making sure I understand the legal operation of this type of flight....I understand the SVFR rules are slightly different for helicopters as well...?
     
  2. MalibuJim

    MalibuJim Filing Flight Plan

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  3. overdrive148

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  4. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    I believe the only material difference for helicopters is that night SVFR requires a fixed wing aircraft to be IFR equipped with an IFR rated PIC, whereas neither of those apply to helicopters.

    The pilot was asked by the VNY controller to confirm he was VFR as he exited her Class D airspace (which ends the SVFR transition clearance) and she handed him off to Socal. He replied he was 1500 and VFR.

    I'm starting to wonder if we have a pilot that flew that region and that route quite frequently over his career, with more than a few experiences flying low ceilings in that coastal area? Perhaps a classic normalization of deviance situation?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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  5. SToL

    SToL Line Up and Wait

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    You've got it right, same as an airplane in Class E. The differences are Class G and SVFR.

    But you're implying he was in Class E, and he may have been, but remember those are AGL. EDIT: After he left, Van Nuys, was he 700' or more AGL? I don't know, haven't really looked at the data.

    Also, I haven't looked at the sectional for that area so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that it is Class E there and starts at 700' and not 1200.

    If he did remain below 700' AGL then he would have been in Class G with vis req down to 1/2 mile.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  6. SToL

    SToL Line Up and Wait

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  7. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    VNY is 802 ft elevation, he was reporting first 1400 and then 1500 during the BUR Class C and the VNY Class D SVFR transit.
     
  8. SToL

    SToL Line Up and Wait

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    Right, but I was refereeing to the area outside of the Class D SVFR. After he left Van Nuys.

    Edited my original post.
     
  9. Gordon Freeman

    Gordon Freeman Filing Flight Plan

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    Looks like an engineer provides a detailed description of what happened just before crash. He describes the helicopter hovering inside cloud cover, possibly looking for visual/nav reference just prior to hitting the terrain:

     
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  10. danhagan

    danhagan Pattern Altitude

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    OK, I'll be the idiot and ask:p

    Government helicopters in my area consistently fly at 400-500 AGL directly over the city (have seen them at eye level with 1-10 over the river near UTEP which would put them at 50-100). Am guessing helicopters don't have the same "populated areas" restriction that we do to clear by 1000 over structures?
     
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  11. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    A "sound engineer". Like most witnesses, I'd take anything he says with a packet of salt.
     
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  12. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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  13. SToL

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    Depends whether the operation is Part 91 or Part 135. 91 only states must be done without hazard, 135 is 300 over congested area.
     
  14. Hunt-man

    Hunt-man Pre-Flight

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    He has a TWA hat on so how can we doubt him?
    Looking like CFIT....
     
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  15. Gordon Freeman

    Gordon Freeman Filing Flight Plan

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    He seems more intelligent than the average witness with some background in aviation based on his phraseology. No need for you to be a smart a$$. His recount seems relevant to the discussion.
     
  16. Hunt-man

    Hunt-man Pre-Flight

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    I don't know about @Salty but I enjoy a bit of smart assery....
     
  17. Tony Long

    Tony Long Filing Flight Plan

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    Based on audio FAA controllers had them in a holding pattern because a Citation jet was inbound to one of the nearby fields as well as a missed approach by another aircraft. Hence maybe why we see the red circles
     
  18. jallen0

    jallen0 Pre-takeoff checklist

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  19. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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  20. CRQFlier

    CRQFlier Pre-Flight

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    Circles on FR24 pic are the hold outside C space. Red circles are ~ mamba academy, well before CMA.
    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
     
  21. SToL

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  22. SToL

    SToL Line Up and Wait

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    I'm pretty sure the last 'T' just wore off his hat.
     
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  23. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  24. jallen0

    jallen0 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Edited this post as it had to do with a video that was removed. See below post.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  25. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    @MBDiagMan the video you posted is a fake and had been posted previously.

    I removed that as we have removed other links to it.
     
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  26. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    Only part is he said it was hovering and then started to head over the mountains, FlightAware doesn’t show this, they conflict.


    Tom
     
  27. MBDiagMan

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    Thanks Ted! I apologize for causing you the trouble. I was suspicious of it and wanted to know if it could be legitimate. It amazes me that so much bogus stuff is circulating regarding this.
     
  28. redtail

    redtail En-Route

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    When I read things like this, it always baffles my mind. :(

    https://people.com/sports/pilot-identified-in-kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-ara-zobayan/
    "A source tells PEOPLE that Zobayan was “extremely experienced” as a pilot.
    “He had a lot of respect for flying and would never take risks. He knew the valley very well. The area where they crashed was not a new area for him. He was very familiar with that area,” the source says. “It’s just such a shock. There are no words to express how much Ara will be missed and how sad everyone is about the passengers that died. It’s just such a painful tragedy. So many families affected and so much pain.”

    In addition to being a flight instructor, Zobayan had 20 years of experience flying in Southern California, according to The New York Times."
     
  29. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    As experienced of a pilot as he might’ve been, he was a poor decision maker, unfortunately. Yes, it’s likely too early to be making that claim, but I say that with the information that we currently have.

    Although it was said that he had great knowledge of the local area, when terrain and mountain tops are obscured by fog and low visibility, that knowledge no longer means anything and the disorientation that follows makes things that much worse.
     
  30. cowman

    cowman En-Route

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    He may have made 10,000 good decisions until this one. Only takes once.

    Wouldn't discount the external factor of such a VIP either.
     
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  31. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Got that right!
     
  32. redtail

    redtail En-Route

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    True, but I find it hard to believe that in 20 years of flying in the exact same area, this was his first encounter with low clouds, fog and poor visibility.
     
  33. 3 in the green

    3 in the green Line Up and Wait

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    The helo was operated by Island Express. Pilot may be IFR rated, but was the operator approved to conduct IFR ops in the S76? I'd imagine so, but perhaps if it wasn't, it would be an additional pressure on the pilot to avoid going IFR.

    Interestingly enough, their website isn't available at the moment.

    Separately, I saw them fly over me that morning. I happened to be golfing at Mile Square in Fountain Valley and noticed them fly overhead. They were pretty low, but nothing unusual for helos in the area when the ceilings are lower. I heard it well before I saw it and thought it was something coming in to the Los Alamitos base nearby.
     
  34. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    But the witness said that someone else told him that in 17 years this is the thickest and lowest the fog has ever been. Can’t argue with that.
     
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  35. Bell206

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    FWIW: the one thing nobody knows is what the pilot actually saw out his windshield. Just because people on the ground could not see him doesn't always mean he was 0/0. He may have been between a fog layer and the cloud layer and got caught in a sucker hole. The only thing we know 100% at this time is that his actions to get out of this one didn't work for whatever reason. I'm sure you would want that same initial consideration by others should you unfortunately fly into a rock cloud one day.;)
     
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  36. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Remember, you can do something a thousand times, but it only takes one time of pushing the limit too far for unfortunate consequences to take place. I would bet that he flew similar routes in similar conditions many times in the past and was able to get away with it, so that complacency of ‘getting away with it’ gave him the assurance that it was okay to do it again.
     
  37. redtail

    redtail En-Route

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    Ok, even so....how could.. "that knowledge no longer mean anything" ? (post#242).

    If anything, I would think that knowledge means EVERYTHING!
     
  38. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    ^^^this^^^^

    I read earlier in the thread ATC said they were to low for FF.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  39. redtail

    redtail En-Route

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    Agreed. Which is why it baffles MY mind.
     
  40. 3 in the green

    3 in the green Line Up and Wait

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    Geographically farther south, but same type of conditions delayed the start of Sunday's PGA round at Torrey Pines (golf course) by over two hours because the fog was too thick.