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Good on you!While goinf to sleep, I ultimately came to this conclusion. I should have acted as PIC and pretended he's just some random passenger. And focused.
Good on you!While goinf to sleep, I ultimately came to this conclusion. I should have acted as PIC and pretended he's just some random passenger. And focused.
Much of the reaction we get from others is merely a reflection of our own attitudes. We can be offensive to others, depending on personality and character traits, without even trying. We had some students that already knew it all and resented being told they didn't know it all. We had some students that thought the rules were stupid, and for stupid people only. Instructors pick up on this real quick, and they don't like working with such people. We even had those that thought they could buy a pilot license, and they resented being told that they had to earn it.Parrot, how old are you? Young, I'd guess.
"If you meet somebody and think he's an a**hole, he probably is. If you think everybody you meet is an a**hole, it's probably you that is one."
If that has been a consistent experience, you need to ask yourself with honesty, what is the common denominator, and actually work on that. And maybe start actually listening to the input that you are probably being given.
Also, you have demonstrated a ton of presumption such as - you actually know that he was angry and mashed the brakes because he was selfish and wanted to go to the airlines. If you have the ability to get in their heads and know their motives, maybe one or two of those people you've interacted with know what's in YOUR head. Works both ways, see? You can't expect people to treat you better than you treat them.
Also, regarding:
Maybe he had a discussion with some other people and thought that this was the best way to test their concerns, and you managed to let those same concerns show themselves?
So have you met with your CFI on the ground to ask for his evaluation and reasoning?
Not saying you are right or wrong. It is just that we (the collective “we”) need both sides of the story before we can provide meaningful advice.
-Skip
That's the right mindset. Of course, a CFI or DPE may give you instructions or advice, which differentiates them from a random passenger. Plan and act as if you were PIC and they weren't there, but also listen for and follow any instructions they provide, and adapt your plans accordingly. Ask for clarification if you need to.While goinf to sleep, I ultimately came to this conclusion. I should have acted as PIC and pretended he's just some random passenger. And focused.
29 and nope it was just him. I'd have had a great time with everyone else. But from now on I don't care. If he wants to be rude fine. I no longer care. I'm just going to do whats required to get through.Parrot, how old are you? Young, I'd guess.
"If you meet somebody and think he's an a**hole, he probably is. If you think everybody you meet is an a**hole, it's probably you that is one."
Wait, now you have a great time with everyone else? Before it was "everybody has a problem with me"...pick one.29 and nope it was just him. I'd have had a great time with everyone else. But from now on I don't care. If he wants to be rude fine. I no longer care. I'm just going to do whats required to get through.
The key to good teaching is to challenge students to the point that they may feel uncomfortable, but not to the point they are frustrated, while providing encouragement throughout. Overcoming challenges generates a sense of accomplishment, mastery, and confidence. Students that are never stretched can become complacent. In a classroom setting, this is perhaps innocuous. In a research laboratory or an airplane, complacency can be deadly.
I guarantee 100% that you will be frustrated by the person in your right seat in an airline.What my lead did is literally make me frustrated. Like he went out of his way to make me feel extremely frustrated. I'm sorry, but this type of frustration by the person in your right seat, is not something that would happen in an airline either.
Once I was high on approach & started a slip when the instructor “yipped” & blocked the controls, saying, “you haven’t been taught that yet.” I reminded her this was a BFR not a student pilot flight.
For anyone that wants the cliff-notes version of this massive wall of text, here's GPT's summary. It's accurate.
View attachment 118039
@ImAParrot
Gotta be honest, the guy doing your eval sounds like he was having a bad day -- or maybe he's just a dick in general. Most people aren't that fired up.
That said, it sounded like you either really needed to vent or you have a really severe case of victim's mentality as @SkyChaser mentions. I hope it's the former, but the way that you write really makes me think its the latter.
Flying is going to throw a ****load of curveballs at you and I gotta tell you -- winds blowing at 12kts, or having a busy pattern are the smallest of said curveballs. Even at presolo phase 12 kts should be a total non-issue. But it seems like the biggest culprit is that there wasn't a clear division of responsibility between you and him which led to a lot of frustration in the air on both parts. Going into your next flight I'd correct for that and tell them you expect to own the airplane so you know you're responsible for everything. Problem solved.
As for things he doesn't like but your instructor does? Tell your instructor about how you got *****ed at for doing it and have him resolve it with your check-ride dude. They should be able to figure it out and give you one consistent way of doing things.
Also something to be cognizant of: CFI is just an FAA certification, it's not a teaching degree. And it's certainly not a certificate in patience and understanding. In my experience of flying with maybe 8 CFIs and talking to many more, most CFIs are straight-up bad at their job simply because they don't want to be in that job. They just don't have a way to pay for hour-building without it, and they need the hours for their next career leap. It's very likely that this eval guy was in that bucket of instructors. In that case, don't take it personally. Just treat your experience with that guy as a purely business transaction -- you're not trying to make friends with this dude. Adopting this mentality will help you a lot in the future because you sound REALLY young and there's going to be PLENTY more interactions in your future where people don't treat you exactly as you'd like to be treated.
Also, I’m thinking with your ability to assess everyone
Also, I’m thinking with your ability to assess everyone else’s performance, even those with far more experience than you, while you are taking a TOL, you should be running this school not attending it. Or, maybe, just perhaps, you should spend less time analyzing how others are doing and more time focusing on what you are doing. Nah.
I guarantee 100% that you will be frustrated by the person in your right seat in an airline.
you have a lot of growing up to do.
you aren’t going to learn squat as long as you are spending so much energy deciding what everyone else is doing wrong. You should be spending ALL that energy thinking about what you can improve on. That is your job as a student. Your job is not to evaluate your instructors.
Yea that was it. The clear division of responsibility was lacking. I've already somewhat alluded to that in my recent posts. The only way forward is just to ignore him and just be PIC. Even though technically he is, but still.
Yea that was it. The clear division of responsibility was lacking. I've already somewhat alluded to that in my recent posts. The only way forward is just to ignore him and just be PIC. Even though technically he is, but still.
I guarantee 100% that you will be frustrated by the person in your right seat in an airline.
you have a lot of growing up to do.
you aren’t going to learn squat as long as you are spending so much energy deciding what everyone else is doing wrong. You should be spending ALL that energy thinking about what you can improve on. That is your job as a student. Your job is not to evaluate your instructors.
Much of the reaction we get from others is merely a reflection of our own attitudes. We can be offensive to others, depending on personality and character traits, without even trying. We had some students that already knew it all and resented being told they didn't know it all. We had some students that thought the rules were stupid, and for stupid people only. Instructors pick up on this real quick, and they don't like working with such people. We even had those that thought they could buy a pilot license, and they resented being told that they had to earn it.
Not saying that this is the case here, but to me it looks more than a little familiar. If someone is being singled out for this treatment, why is that? There's a root cause somewhere, and the person needs to get to the bottom of it, even if he finds that it's his own attitude. Life will be ten times harder for him if he/she lets it continue.
The Canadian Flight Instructor Guide has a lot of useful information, especially in the Learning and Learning Factors section: https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/pu...e-tp-975#part-i-learning-and-learning-factors
Scroll way down to "Student Progress." Enlightening stuff.
That might happen. More likely you will *feel* like they are doing it intentionally, when, in fact they probably don’t even know it’s happening. You are so sure you know what other people’s intentions are, it’s a little frightening.SO the guy on my right seat or left seat is going to purposely do everything to frustrate me before a flight with hundreds of passengers? Got it.makes sense
Your right. I've mentioned this already now and I'll focus on myself. But I now know at least that you've never dealt with someone trying to purposely let it be known that they want to frustrate you while they make it easy on everyone else. I'm leaving bits of information so peolle get the full picture, and others have made good responses. But then there's always someone like you who most likely never had an issue like this, trying to tell me to do better. Ok I will but you've never been in that position before
I was already thinking "therapy" when you said your instructor hit the brakes because he's selfish and in a hurry to get to the airlines. How does that even make sense? That was before I even got to the part where apparently difficulty dealing with others has been a lifelong problem.
Wait, now you have a great time with everyone else? Before it was "everybody has a problem with me"...pick one.
Who was PIC? If it was a BFR, you were and the instructor interfered with your flight controls. If they need to take flight controls, the protocol is to verbally call it out, correct the condition, explain if necessary and return the controls to you. They should NOT block your controls resulting in who knows what kind of flight attitude on final when the two of you fight over the controls.
Clarify all of this on the ground before you start the engine.
IT was not a flight review. It was an evaluation
I reminded her this was a BFR not a student pilot flight.
The takeaways were I lacked "spatial awareness". Thays bs because I've never had this issue before, but flying wkth him, I did become spatially unaware.
Your first and biggest mistake was to fly when you didn’t feel it was safe. Either you need more training to learn / feel that it was safe, or it was unsafe and you should not have flown. Either way, you failed right there.
“I have to fly because it’s an evaluation” is a classic example of one of the hazardous attitudes. I’ll leave you with the exercise of figuring out which one.
I suspect you knew it was safe and were just having nerves. That happens. Get over them or scrub the flight. It might set you back a little to prove you are ready later, but what you did probably did far more damage. More likely they might be impressed that you stood your ground and exhibited good ADM.
No. You’re a pre-solo student, which is the aviation equivalent of a six-day-old puppy; your eyes aren’t even opened yet. Be humble.While goinf to sleep, I ultimately came to this conclusion. I should have acted as PIC and pretended he's just some random passenger. And focused.
FWIW, I don't think anyone in the history of aviation has diverted because winds were 12 knots. That's like... a gentle summer breeze.I made a go decision because winds were at 6-7kts on metar. By the time I came back it was showing 12. They picked up as we left. Somehow I don't think in real life I can decide "oh I don't want to do this anymore, beyond my personal minimums". Of course I could divert irl, but I doubt he'd allow that. So no I was stuck there
Encountering actual conditions different from forecast - this happens all the time in real life. You can encounter lower cloud ceilings, stiffer winds, thunderstorms, you name it. Yes of course you can and should take action if any flight encounters conditions beyond your personal minimums. Pilots who ignore it and press on eventually become statistics in an NTSB report. The action depends on the situation. It can involve using a different runway, diverting to a nearby airport, having the CFI demonstrate new skills, etc. If this happens during a flight you should tell your CFI. It can lead to a valuable discussion about how to handle the situation.I made a go decision because winds were at 6-7kts on metar. By the time I came back it was showing 12. They picked up as we left. Somehow I don't think in real life I can decide "oh I don't want to do this anymore, beyond my personal minimums". Of course I could divert irl, but I doubt he'd allow that. So no I was stuck there
"If you meet somebody and think he's an a**hole, he probably is. If you think everybody you meet is an a**hole, it's probably you that is one."
Everyone is an *******. At times.Exactly
Gotta be honest, the guy doing your eval sounds like he was having a bad day -- or maybe he's just a dick in general. Most people aren't that fired up.
Also something to be cognizant of: CFI is just an FAA certification, it's not a teaching degree. And it's certainly not a certificate in patience and understanding. In my experience of flying with maybe 8 CFIs and talking to many more, most CFIs are straight-up bad at their job simply because they don't want to be in that job. They just don't have a way to pay for hour-building without it, and they need the hours for their next career leap. It's very likely that this eval guy was in that bucket of instructors. In that case, don't take it personally. Just treat your experience with that guy as a purely business transaction -- you're not trying to make friends with this dude. Adopting this mentality will help you a lot in the future because you sound REALLY young and there's going to be PLENTY more interactions in your future where people don't treat you exactly as you'd like to be treated.
Your instructor is there to teach you. The Chief Instructor was there to evaluate you. He’s not going to say a lot, but instead, observe and evaluate how you would act and perform if he wasn’t there. If you can’t get over this, checkrides will be hell for you. If you have problems flying with different personalities, then choose a new career. There are many different types of pilots out there, and you’ll fly with all of them.
I have to continue because quitting will waste more time and money then staying
Bruh if you're pre-solo it's not too late to choose an entirely new career path, much less a new school.I'm not worried about check rides. This wasn't a solo Eval either. It's just a regular pattern. People here saying 12kts wind isn't much, I got used to it after the first lap. I took a look at the reviews of the school (they have many locations in many cities), what do you know, they're almost all 1 stars, with the same complaints I have. It's ridiculous, and judging from the reviews, it's unlikely I can ask for another instructor or whatever, or that they would care if I lodge a complaint. If anything it'll just backfire on me.
There is only 1 area I was lacking, and another simple thing I picked up on the flight. Spacial awareness. I've already admitted to it, and said it's my fault, but the atmosphere with that guy was so bad I simply couldn't retain anything.
And I learned he was a high school football quarterback, who obviously didn't make it in the NFL. And he never cared for being a pilot all his life, he was in his mid 20s, and suddenly decided to be a pilot (most likely for the pay and travel benefits), and got and demanded all the instruction and help he wanted (its easy when your a certain ethnicity and gender and so are most of your peers), and now he's 100-200 hours away from 1500 and can't be bothered to ride with someone who's just barely reached solo prep.
I now know I have to do something I hate and which I think is sad. Pathetic, and reserved only for the insecure and greedy and the losers, get selfish. Make it all about me and care only about myself. Perform all the skills necessary as required and then continue doing that without caring for anyone, and just passable being respectful. That's at least the feeling I get from the "chief" instructor. I just can't stand people who take their own misery and try to pass it on others, potentially ruining their career, especially one who never cared for aviation in the first place. Like I said if I was evaluating someone, I'd make them feel encouraged, hopeful, and calm and comfortable while at the same time not trying to trick them, confuse them, make things difficult, say I'll take this role in the flight but then don't, all while maintaining a professional attidue and not helping them with what they're required to show they're proficient on. It's ridiculous to get someone so fkn rude. But the review now, I've read at least 60 in different locations. All point to the same. I have to continue because quitting will waste more time and money then staying
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I now know I have to do something I hate and which I think is sad. Pathetic, and reserved only for the insecure and greedy and the losers, get selfish. Make it all about me and care only about myself. Perform all the skills necessary as required and then continue doing that without caring for anyone, and just passable being respectful.
I now know I have to do something I hate and which I think is sad. Pathetic, and reserved only for those more concerned about getting the training they are paying for than whether or not everyone else is doing it right or has it harder or easier than I do. Focus on me and care only about what I can do better. Perform all the skills necessary as required and then continue doing that without caring if anyone else is doing it right or not, and realize that the world does not revolve around me. Nobody else is obsessing about me after they go home, I shouldn't waste my time obsessing about them.