Join CAP?

[weilke]

Oh yeah, I remember Ben. I don't recall any rants, but I probably didn't read any CAP threads. I gotta go search now.

Some CAP cadet ran off with his girlfriend or something. Nothing else would explain that degree of hatred.

 

[James331]

There are many different independent "Angel Flight" organizations in the US, but AFAIK none do medevac.
If an Angel Flight patient has a serious medical issue enroute, we are supposed to let ATC know and we may then use "medevac" callsign for priority (along with a possible destination change).

I thought you were doing medevac work for your day job.

My understanding is a angel flight should never become a medevac flight. Not much angel flight experience, a decent amount of medevac experience, I'd never load a medevac level pax/pt into my private plane with zero medical peroanal or equipment/drugs aboard.

 

[RotorDude]

I thought you were doing medevac work for your day job.

My understanding is a angel flight should never become a medevac flight. Not much angel flight experience, a decent amount of medevac experience, I'd never load a medevac level pax/pt into my private plane with zero medical peroanal or equipment/drugs aboard.

In theory, all Angel Flight patients are stable and generally ambulatory. The pilot may reject any patient he/she feels could become an issue in flight. So it's just one more parameter to keep track of, like weather and engine health. I have not had any major issues so far.

 

[James331]

Some CAP cadet ran off with his girlfriend or something. Nothing else would explain that degree of hatred.

Lol, based on the cadets I've seen, doubt it


I think his disdain for the CAP was based on some botched SAR flights where other resources were not called in and folks died, based on the probable time and causes of death, they likley would have been rescued had CAP not been running interference. Quite a few folks in the backcountry groups seem to have similar feelings about the CAP.

 

[James331]

In theory, all Angel Flight patients are stable and generally ambulatory. The pilot may reject any patient he/she feels could become an issue in flight. So it's just one more parameter to keep track of, like weather and engine health. I have not had any major issues so far.

Gotcha.

I'd say AF is one of the organizations where folks' donated time and resources make a direct difference in the lives of their fellow man

 

[Mtns2Skies]

Lol, based on the cadets I've seen, doubt it


I think his disdain for the CAP was based on some botched SAR flights where other resources were not called in and folks died, based on the probably time and causes of death they likley would have been rescued had CAP not been running interference. Quite a few folks in the backcountry groups seem to have similar feelings about the CAP.

This^

Essentially CAP killed some people that were perfectly rescue-able but were way too territorial to actually do what needed to be done. I think he's got every right to be as mad as he is. I think he may have known them?(maybe)

 

[weilke]

Just because he keeps repeating it doesn"t make it true.

 

[SkyDog58]

Some CAP cadet ran off with his girlfriend or something. Nothing else would explain that degree of hatred.

Gotcha.

I'd say AF is one of the organizations where folks' donated time and resources make a direct difference in the lives of their fellow man

No denying that but the same can be said about CAP in many instances. Practically every if not all AF flights will have a direct impact due to the nature of their operation. CAP flights less so but there is no denying they serve a very useful and important function.

 

[denverpilot]

Oh goodie. Another thread about CAP uniforms.

 

[Mike Smith]

Oh goodie. Another thread about CAP uniforms.

Sorry Nate, I just wanted to know if the free flying was a real thing. Lol...I really am sorry.

 

[Cykoguy]

Went to an AOPA Rusty Pilots seminar today that was presented by the Davenport, Iowa CAP squadron. The way they made it sound was that they are hurting for pilots. Obviously they are biased but as they put it CAP is the best way to become the safest pilot possible due to the regulations and standards that they have to follow. I would think about it more if there was not so much bureaucracy around it and how many hoops you have to jump through.

 

[weilke]

Sorry Nate, I just wanted to know if the free flying was a real thing. Lol...I really am sorry.

It is once you are a 'mission pilot'. Getting there can be a challenge.

 

[MAKG1]

Went to an AOPA Rusty Pilots seminar today that was presented by the Davenport, Iowa CAP squadron. The way they made it sound was that they are hurting for pilots. Obviously they are biased but as they put it CAP is the best way to become the safest pilot possible due to the regulations and standards that they have to follow. I would think about it more if there was not so much bureaucracy around it and how many hoops you have to jump through.

I can say it has indeed made me a considerably better pilot, in some cases because of the hoops. I've gotten a lot more G1000 training than I would have otherwise, and precision is a big deal when you have a photographer in back (it's hard to keep your lunch down staring through a DSLR).

 

[dmspilot]

CAP is the best way to become the safest pilot possible due to the regulations and standards that they have to follow.

For real? A couple of weeks ago, I watched a CAP 172 with a pilot and three cadets on board fire up, immediately taxi out onto the middle of the runway, line up, sit stopped on the runway for two minutes doing a mag check, and then, finally, takeoff from the halfway point. (The airport has a full-length parallel taxiway...)

 

[denverpilot]

Feel free to refer to this handy online CAP discussion card I've developed after reading about CAP on PoA for a long time.

It's useful for reference at any time, even on other forums:

Any other pilot group's required procedures, wherever they fly, are the best evaaaaar, but CAP's and other places that try to teach to fly by procedures aren't.

Uniforms are cool everywhere else in all sorts of stuff kids and adults do, but CAP shouldn't use them because they look like something mumble military mumble Air Force and that's apparently bad.

Flying kids around is cool everywhere else, but not in CAP because it's military marketing.

SAR is done properly by everyone else, but not CAP because they're not allowed to make mistakes like everyone else.

Bureaucracy and paperwork is fine if the FBO or Insurance company or flight club requires it, but it's too onerous if it's in CAP.

Seniority and calling out the most dedicated folk to fly is fine in every other mission based flying role, especially if the flight looks tough or more risky perhaps than usual, but it's a "good old boy" problem in CAP.

Poorly trained air show crowd control volunteers happen at every venue, but it's inexcusable if they're CAP cadets, so fry them.

And a new one?

I suppose that safety seminars are done great by everyone else, but if a CAP squadron sponsors and puts one on, it's crap. Just because it's CAP.

What did I miss? Did I skip any of the standard CAP bashing themes?

Hahaha.

 

[MAKG1]

For real? A couple of weeks ago, I watched a CAP 172 with a pilot and three cadets on board fire up, immediately taxi out onto the middle of the runway, line up, sit stopped on the runway for two minutes doing a mag check, and then, finally, takeoff from the halfway point. (The airport has a full-length parallel taxiway...)

You sure that was a 172?

I can put three cadets in the 182, but I usually limit it to two, as the back seaters tend to get bored.

Because you saw one person do something rude does not mean all CAP pilots are unsafe. You do realize CAP has more than 1000 pilots nationwide, right? Rather big logical leap, there.

Stopping on the runway is not against regulations, nor is it unsafe to other pilots. It's rude and not advisible to have your back to traffic.

 

[dmspilot]

Because you saw one person do something rude does not mean all CAP pilots are unsafe. You do realize CAP has more than 1000 pilots nationwide, right? Rather big logical leap, there.

I relayed a story. I didn't make any logical leap. You did.

And yes it was a 172.

 

[MAKG1]

I relayed a story. I didn't make any logical leap. You did.

"For real?" contains an enormous logical leap. YOU said it, so take responsibility for your own words rather than try to assign it to others. You did not merely relay a story. You added your own interpretation to it, and you presented it as your own.

 

[dmspilot]

"For real?" contains an enormous logical leap.

"For real?" is an expression of surprise or disbelief. It contains no "logical leap" or any other argument, fallacious or otherwise. To claim that such a simple and common two-word expression is a "logical leap" could be seen as a logical leap in itself; but there really is no logic there, nor the illusion of logic, so I'd simply call your claim "ridiculous."

[That] does not mean all CAP pilots are unsafe...big logical leap, there.

Your straw man claims that "all CAP pilots are unsafe". That is your logical leap. Not mine. So take responsibility for your own words rather than inventing straw men.

Meanwhile, you are busy defending a ridiculous practice of running up and doing checklists on the runway as "not unsafe". Do you care to express your opinion on whether disregarding half the runway is unsafe, rude, or neither? Or does it depend on whether other pilots are around?

 

[MAKG1]

"For real?" is an expression of surprise or disbelief. It contains no "logical leap" or any other argument, fallacious or otherwise. To claim that such a simple and common two-word expression is a "logical leap" could be seen as a logical leap in itself; but there really is no logic there, nor the illusion of logic, so I'd simply call your claim "ridiculous."



Your straw man claims that "all CAP pilots are unsafe". That is your logical leap. Not mine. So take responsibility for your own words rather than inventing straw men.

Meanwhile, you are busy defending a ridiculous practice of running up and doing checklists on the runway as "not unsafe". Do you care to express your opinion on whether disregarding half the runway is unsafe, rude, or neither? Or does it depend on whether other pilots are around?

It is not unsafe TO YOU.

It's obvious you have an axe to grind.

There is no lower limit on the number of words to express a logical leap. Give me a break.

It's not your place to impose student pilot restrictions on other pilots. Intersection takeoffs are not unsafe unless the runway is short. A 172 can be off the ground in under 1000 feet.

You have described no violations of CAP or FAA rules. So, unless you witness something ACTUALLY unsafe, butt out. Call the guy out for being rude if you like; it's not nice to take a runway for that long. But I have my suspicions you're exaggerating.

 

[SkyDog58]

Feel free to refer to this handy online CAP discussion card I've developed after reading about CAP on PoA for a long time.

It's useful for reference at any time, even on other forums:

Any other pilot group's required procedures, wherever they fly, are the best evaaaaar, but CAP's and other places that try to teach to fly by procedures aren't.

Uniforms are cool everywhere else in all sorts of stuff kids and adults do, but CAP shouldn't use them because they look like something mumble military mumble Air Force and that's apparently bad.

Flying kids around is cool everywhere else, but not in CAP because it's military marketing.

SAR is done properly by everyone else, but not CAP because they're not allowed to make mistakes like everyone else.

Bureaucracy and paperwork is fine if the FBO or Insurance company or flight club requires it, but it's too onerous if it's in CAP.

Seniority and calling out the most dedicated folk to fly is fine in every other mission based flying role, especially if the flight looks tough or more risky perhaps than usual, but it's a "good old boy" problem in CAP.

Poorly trained air show crowd control volunteers happen at every venue, but it's inexcusable if they're CAP cadets, so fry them.

And a new one?

I suppose that safety seminars are done great by everyone else, but if a CAP squadron sponsors and puts one on, it's crap. Just because it's CAP.

What did I miss? Did I skip any of the standard CAP bashing themes?

Hahaha.

All rather petty thoughts, aren't they? You did a good job wrapping them all into one package. Hopefully some of the naysayers will reflect on it and cool their negativity a bit. Is CAP perfect? Nope, I have had a few issues with them as a member. Still I think it is a great organization and I am glad to have gotten involved again after a hiatus.

 

[Sundancer]

Bureaucracy and paperwork is fine if the FBO or Insurance company or flight club requires it, but it's too onerous if it's in CAP.

Seniority and calling out the most dedicated folk to fly is fine in every other mission based flying role, especially if the flight looks tough or more risky perhaps than usual, but it's a "good old boy" problem in CAP.

You make some valid points, but in my experience, these two don't hunt. The volume of bureacracy isn't justified by need - too much of it is pointless.

In my wing, as apparently in many others, well (and better) qualified MPs were ignored regularly, in favor of GOBN guys. Not always, but routinely.

Denver, I'm not bashing CAP, and I encouraged the OP to check it out; but I thought a realistic expectation should accompany the reccomendation. I did it for many years, and maybe you have, too - if so, you know there are reasons CAP can't hold onto MPs, and free flying time goes unused.

 

[Palmpilot]

The volume of bureacracy isn't justified by need - too much of it is pointless.

I don't think you'll find too many CAP members who disagree with that.

In my wing, as apparently in many others, well (and better) qualified MPs were ignored regularly, in favor of GOBN guys. Not always, but routinely.

I think that varies a lot from one wing to another.