Join CAP?

Palmpilot said:
I'm surprised to hear this. Can you elaborate?
Click to expand...
They can carry more weight, or with the same crew, can climb faster and more easily. The standard issue GPS is irritating, but it will plot grids, unlike G1000. They also tend to get interesting accessories like tow hooks and loudspeakers. They can be routinely fueled to 64 gal; most of the G1000s have been reduced to 50, so the steam gauges can usually fly for an extra hour. We push the limits on real photo missions, and seem to always land with 15 gal or less in the tanks in G1000s.

More importantly for a trainee, they are more available and require much less process to qualify in. They are also much more common outside our Group, even in LA.

You would think the autopilots would help, but I find I can fly photographers and scanners much smoother by hand, especially with the KAP140, unless the air is unusually smooth.
 
Last edited:
Thanks. Not having gotten G1000-qualified, I had no idea.
 
So - as you can see, there are those who outright hate CAP and those who think it's ok. For the OP, make up your own mind.

IMO, people who are put off by the military culture have probably never been in the military or else they're recognize how weak the military culture is in the senior organization. We had our meeting last night and there wasn't a military uniform to be seen, everyone was in blue polo shirts with grey slacks. No salutes were given and for the most part first names were used. If it weren't for the fact that we were all dressed alike, you'd have never known that we were a "military" group.
 
MAKG1 said:
They can carry more weight, or with the same crew, can climb faster and more easily. The standard issue GPS is irritating, but it will plot grids, unlike G1000. They also tend to get interesting accessories like tow hooks and loudspeakers. They can be routinely fueled to 64 gal; most of the G1000s have been reduced to 50, so the steam gauges can usually fly for an extra hour. We push the limits on real photo missions, and seem to always land with 15 gal or less in the tanks in G1000s.

More importantly for a trainee, they are more available and require much less process to qualify in. They are also much more common outside our Group, even in LA.
Click to expand...

In our 206 we have a Garmin GTN 650 and I think a G600 MFD. The GTN 650 syncs with ForeFlight on an iPad. You can build your flight plan on the iPad, take it out to the airplane, synchronize it, load the plan into the GTN650 and fly it on the G600.

Expensive but they're still pretty light weight and I would argue far more functional that steam gauges.
 
bflynn said:
In our 206 we have a Garmin GTN 650 and I think a G600 MFD. The GTN 650 syncs with ForeFlight on an iPad. You can build your flight plan on the iPad, take it out to the airplane, synchronize it, load the plan into the GTN650 and fly it on the G600.

Expensive but they're still pretty light weight and I would argue far more functional that steam gauges.
Click to expand...
That may be. The issue with G1000 182s is weight. It's also why we don't use newer turbo 182s. The weight limitations are the same, but an identical turbo version is 50 lb heavier. The usual issue is landing weight, but it becomes takeoff weight for sorties longer than about 2 hours.

For the 206s, all the issues are less significant. We use turbo 206 G1000s for mountain searches in NorCal. Not much trouble fitting a crew of 3 or even sometimes 4 in those. But I don't really like riding right seat in those. Not having a door there in a Cessna single is weird.
 
What uniform of the day is
bflynn said:
IMO, people who are put off by the military culture have probably never been in the military or else they're recognize how weak the military culture is in the senior organization.
Click to expand...

I'm prior service and I'm put off by the pseudo military aspect of CAP.

Here's my old CO, we served on the Teams together...
 
Personally I would much rather just do something like Pilot for Paws or Angel Flights than quasi military CAP program. Even CAF would be cool to be able to get checked out in warbirds. But whatever floats your boat!
 
OkieAviator said:
What uniform of the day is

I'm prior service and I'm put off by the pseudo military aspect of CAP.

Here's my old CO, we served on the Teams together...
Click to expand...

LOL your old CO was quite an accomplished uh, well, everything I guess. Was that an actual confrontation w/ a loser at the mall? The guy questioning seemed to know what he was talking about and questioned some of the BS that guy had on. Hope someone turned him in or took him out back for a good arse kicking!
 
James331 said:
Weight/performance?
Click to expand...
Yes. G1000 182s are 150 lb heavier than 182Ss, with nearly the same performance. It's hard to fit three adults and standard 64 gal fuel in one, with the survival kit and mission equipment. It's much less hard in a 182S with steam.
 
OkieAviator said:
...Here's my old CO, we served on the Teams together...
Click to expand...
That guy's quite a BS artist.

In 25 years in CAP, I've never met anyone like that, but maybe things are different in Oklahoma Wing.
 
OkieAviator said:
What uniform of the day is

I'm prior service and I'm put off by the pseudo military aspect of CAP.

Here's my old CO, we served on the Teams together...
Click to expand...

:D:D:D That was precious. Throughly enjoyed that. Just random badges, medals thrown about and then a couple AF patches on his kahki sleeves. "Tomcat Pilot" ID with a "combat" thrown in for good measure.

You'd have to be really desperate for attention to go to those lengths. Living in a dream world.
 
Blueangel said:
Personally I would much rather just do something like Pilot for Paws or Angel Flights than quasi military CAP program. Even CAF would be cool to be able to get checked out in warbirds. But whatever floats your boat!
Click to expand...
CAF is definitely cool, although the monetary and experience requirements to fly for them are not trivial. Here is a good summary:

http://www.purpleboard.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24100

(Requires registration, but it's free.)
 
OkieAviator said:
I'm prior service and I'm put off by the pseudo military aspect of CAP.
Click to expand...

As is your right. Did you object to the military aspect of the military or the fact that CAP doesn't do it the way you want?
 
Palmpilot said:
That guy's quite a BS artist.
Click to expand...

I'm sure there are some mental health issues with that guy. It was apparently filmed in a Wal-mart and is quite hilarious.

bflynn said:
As is your right. Did you object to the military aspect of the military or the fact that CAP doesn't do it the way you want?
Click to expand...

No issue with the 'military aspect' of the services. You made the comment that people who were put off by CAP playing dress up never served or were anti-militaristic in the first place, I was disputing that being the case, I'm also not an statistical outlier in the matter.
 
mscard88 said:
LOL your old CO was quite an accomplished uh, well, everything I guess. Was that an actual confrontation w/ a loser at the mall? The guy questioning seemed to know what he was talking about and questioned some of the BS that guy had on. Hope someone turned him in or took him out back for a good arse kicking!
Click to expand...

Turn him in to who? Mental health in this country is a joke and frankly if you're so insecure with your own millitary accomplishments, or lack thereof, that you need to attack a poor and obviously mentally challenged person, well that's even sadder than the guy in the video.

Side note, real valor can't be stolen....

Never understood all the costume crap, can folks not go through life and relish in the good they have done without a tin badge to prove it?
 
If the guy in the vid actually does have a diagnosed mental disability, that still doesn't make it right to desecrate the uniform. He's not playing dress up UPS driver. He has real awards (Purple Heart, Silver Star) and skills & qualification badges (Trident, Naval Aviator Wings) that should be treated in a respectful manner. People earned those awards and in some cases died for them.

Whomever is responsible for his well being isn't doing him any favors by allowing him to disrespect the military uniform in public. No need to inform the authorities for Stolen Valor, just politely inform his care taker that this conduct should not take place in public.
 
Last edited:
Dang who peed in your Wheaties James? To the authorities. Many states have passed laws against this practice impersonating military decorations/unifroms. Might even be a federal law against it by now I think. I don't care what you personally think about it, the military, or me. My opinion, and many others, mostly military vets I guess. Oh me insecure in my military career, not even close pal.
 
Last edited:
CAP has a tough balancing act - like when the NHL struggled with on-ice fighting; the devoted fan base loved it, but the league wanted to expand the base, and the fighting was a turn-off for the demographic they wanted to reach. . .what d'ya do? Risk alienating a reliable base, or lose out on broadening your appeal?

CAP has a bunch of folks who love the Air Force uniforms, the military formalities, etc. Not all are goobers and wannabes; but enough are. Other guys came from the military (like me) and could take it or leave it, but mostly prefered to leave it. A third group doesn't care at all, either way.

Truth is, CAP is closer in function to a volunteer fire dept than a military organization; and an individual member can avoid most military-like aspects of CAP, like uniforms, etc. Heck, I wore a polo shirt almost exclusively. But dropping the USAF uni option, and acting more like a VFD would definetly brass off a big chunk of the current membership.

But the close association with Air Force (though it be more dream than reality) has CAP mimicking the USAF structure; lot's of burecratic overhead, pointless procedures, politically correct training, etc.

You can get in, do some good & fun flying, and avoid the goobers; you just gotta pick your squadron carefully, and invest some time in determining the lay of the land. I left because they wasted too much of my time - too many occasions when getting in the air was way, way too much hassle. Not always, for sure, but too often for my taste.
 
I think they need to retain the military connection for the cadets, because learning military customs and courtesies has value, especially for the ones who think they might want to join the military some day. The wing commander here sends out a lot of emails announcing the latest cadet to get a military academy appointment.
 
mscard88 said:
Dang who peed in your Wheaties James? To the authorities. Many states have passed laws against this practice impersonating military decorations/unifroms. Might even be a federal law against it by now I think. I don't care what you personally think about it, the military, or me. My opinion, and many others, mostly military vets I guess. Oh me insecure in my military career, not even close pal.
Click to expand...


No one, just before the main stream media created "stolen valor" no one gave a crap, no one made silly laws, you don't even have to know jack about the millitary to tell that guy is full of chit and not playing with a full deck, give me a break, he ain't fooling anyone and he's just making himself look bad, no one else. Move along.

If I got bent out of shape for every nut job I encounted I'd probably stroke out, I simply just feel bad for them and continue on with my life.
 
The Stolen Valor act really only applies if you're getting monetary gain or federal/state benefits as a result of your charades. Even with his fake credentials, it's probably not illegal until you either impersonate a federal agent, law enforcement or try to get into the country illegally. Otherwise they could just be called movie props or Halloween costume items.

Getting into an argument with someone who is lying about their service is wasted effort, they tend to just move onto the next person who will listen to their mighty accomplishments.
 
It's definitely sad, no doubt about that!
 
OkieAviator said:
No issue with the 'military aspect' of the services. You made the comment that people who were put off by CAP playing dress up never served or were anti-militaristic in the first place, I was disputing that being the case, I'm also not an statistical outlier in the matter.
Click to expand...

No issue with military, then I take it that CAP doesn't do military the way you want it done. Your "playing dress up" comment strikes me that you think of CAP volunteers as lesser than you? Or did you play dress up in the military too? Do you actually know any CAP members well?

FWIW, I served 4 years in the Navy on submarines. I am a CAP member but I don't approach it from the military standpoint, it is an opportunity to use aviation skills to serve the community and maybe some day get some flight hours out of it. I don't play dress up but I do have several uniforms, including a (cotton) flight suit because wearing them is required by the Air Force and by CAP lawyers for legal reasons involving insurance. I have the flight suit for practical reasons, kind of the same reason I wore blue coveralls at sea and then changed into dungarees in port.
 
Sundancer said:
But the close association with Air Force (though it be more dream than reality) has CAP mimicking the USAF structure; lot's of bureaucratic overhead, pointless procedures, politically correct training, etc.
Click to expand...

With the recent Total Force announcements, I think the close association is more reality in the future. What I'm hearing is that they're serious about this and the level of professionalism expected in flying and other activities is going up.
 
bflynn said:
With the recent Total Force announcements, I think the close association is more reality in the future. What I'm hearing is that they're serious about this and the level of professionalism expected in flying and other activities is going up.
Click to expand...

Read about that recently and believe you are correct.
 
Whatever happened to the guy from Wyoming who blows a top anytime CAP is mentioned? I didn't see any of his unhinged rants in this thread. Is the forum software broken?
 
RotorDude said:
It's not some sneaky trick, if that's what you think.
I don't recall all the details, but I think you need to get a (minimum) second class medical, 100 hour inspection on the plane, and better IFR currency than the part 91 minimum. I think you are also limited to higher minimums on approaches. (Somewhere along those lines they lost me, esp. on the higher minimums. :) )
But if you do follow all those requirements, the AF organization (maybe not all of them -- not sure) is allowed to pay your direct expenses.
Click to expand...
No, I wasn't implying that there was anything "sneaky" going on. I was trying to make it abundantly clear to anyone reading this that I wasn't trying to find a "loophole". I'm still not following you though. Are you saying the AF will pay your direct expenses if you meet the criteria you stated? Seems odd that anyone can compensate you without a CPL...
 
S Joslin said:
No, I wasn't implying that there was anything "sneaky" going on. I was trying to make it abundantly clear to anyone reading this that I wasn't trying to find a "loophole". I'm still not following you though. Are you saying the AF will pay your direct expenses if you meet the criteria you stated? Seems odd that anyone can compensate you without a CPL...
Click to expand...

If 'AF' means Angelflight they have a waiver that allows some pilots to accept reimbursement for expenses. It comes with a couple of conditions.
 
weilke said:
Whatever happened to the guy from Wyoming who blows a top anytime CAP is mentioned? I didn't see any of his unhinged rants in this thread. Is the forum software broken?
Click to expand...

He didn't make the move over apparently. No one has heard or been able to contact him.
 
Talking to people who are in my area's CAP.... the CAP has one CFI, and is very hard to schedule. And if you're not checked out in their 182, you're a co-pilot or back seat baggage. The two people I know have been in CAP for almost two years now and haven't gotten a chance to fly anything. They few who are checked out don't want to give up the controls. Hopefully your area is better.
 
mscard88 said:
He didn't make the move over apparently. No one has heard or been able to contact him.
Click to expand...

A CAP thread is just not the same without his rant.

Just thinking about my uniforms. I have a blue golf_shirt with CAP logo and my name and some grey slacks. And a blue flight suit. It is a rare occasion that I wear either.
 
S Joslin said:
No, I wasn't implying that there was anything "sneaky" going on. I was trying to make it abundantly clear to anyone reading this that I wasn't trying to find a "loophole". I'm still not following you though. Are you saying the AF will pay your direct expenses if you meet the criteria you stated? Seems odd that anyone can compensate you without a CPL...
Click to expand...

weilke said:
If 'AF' means Angelflight they have a waiver that allows some pilots to accept reimbursement for expenses. It comes with a couple of conditions.
Click to expand...

Correct. The idea (not well publicized I guess) is that with a few strict rules (some of which I mentioned), the perceived risk of the mission is reduced.
On reflection, the one that was the main show-stopper for me was the increased minimums, which although I can follow their logic, I consider ill-advised. If I am at the end of a long hard IFR flight with the patient just holding on (as is often the case), and the destination ceiling is 300' with 200' minimums on the LPV or ILS, it would be ludicrous or foolhardy to go missed at 400' (don't recall the exact numbers) because that's "company minimums", and then divert to an alternate, which might not be vastly better, and which could even go down to 200' or below when I get there. I suspect this particular rule was not made by a pilot with significant single pilot single engine IFR operations experience.
 
Pt. just holding on? With Angel flight?
 
James331 said:
Pt. just holding on? With Angel flight?
Click to expand...

Sure. Not necessarily in strict medical terms, but certainly under stress and duress. Even something as simple as "really need to go". I had one female patient who, as soon as we shut down, rushed by me and headed to the nearest bathroom. :)
Other patients have just had major surgery, or a chemo injection, and are not happy campers.
 
Understood

Don't you also do medevac work too?
 
James331 said:
Understood

Don't you also do medevac work too?
Click to expand...

There are many different independent "Angel Flight" organizations in the US, but AFAIK none do medevac.
If an Angel Flight patient has a serious medical issue enroute, we are supposed to let ATC know and we may then use "medevac" callsign for priority (along with a possible destination change).
 
weilke said:
A CAP thread is just not the same without his rant.

Just thinking about my uniforms. I have a blue golf_shirt with CAP logo and my name and some grey slacks. And a blue flight suit. It is a rare occasion that I wear either.
Click to expand...
I don't know who you are talking about???? Who is it?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top