Join CAP?

Mike Smith

Mike Smith

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Prattville, Alabama
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Fresh Prince of PrattVegas
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I was talking to a friend before church Sunday about flying and a guy who was sitting in front of me turned around and asked "are you a pilot"? I said yes.....turns out he is the local squadron commander??? I think that's what he said. So he started in on me about joining CAP and wanted to get together and tell me about it. I haven't heard from him yet and was thinking I had seen that a few POAers were CAP members. So what can you tell me about it? I went to the CAP website but it is low on information.
 
Ohhhh, boy.....

Some people love it. Some people think Cap is the devil. I always say try it and find out if it's right for you. Some great people, some goobers, like every other organization. You decide which you'll be.

Otherwise....

:popcorn:
 
Yeaaaah, so search on here about CAP.

Long and short, just join pilots and paws, Angel flight, USCG Aux air wing, etc.

CAP is a bunch of adults who are into air force cosplay
 
I guess I'm more curious about the flying. I can put up with some stuff if I get to fly a well equipped plane for cheaper.
 
mikeinbama said:
I guess I'm more curious about the flying. I can put up with some stuff if I get to fly a well equipped plane for cheaper.
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ETA, I do an occasional pnp flight, not enough experience for AF didn't know the USCG aux. existed.
 
If your joining just for the flying,there are better options available.
 
Ironically, as soon as I posted this, I got an email from the guy. He invited me to a meeting and said they are always looking for pilots to fly " for free".
 
It depends on many things such as what type of squadron (senior, cadet or composite), whether the squadron has an airplane, what sort of missions it gets tasked with, the degree to which they take the air force connection, the squadron commander, the other members, training opportunities, etc. I have had both good and bad experiences with CAP. Overall, I'd say it is good.
 
mikeinbama said:
I guess I'm more curious about the flying. I can put up with some stuff if I get to fly a well equipped plane for cheaper.
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You can definitely fly for free in CAP but you have to really work to get into flight status. Because CAP is the Air Force Auxiliary, there are rules, regulation and qualifications to go through just like in the military. There are several smaller ones, but the biggest immediate one is that you must fly a checkride with a CAP instructor for your highest rating to PTS standards and then repeat that annually.

Keep in mind that the flying in CAP is not really pleasure flying. You can pay for your own flight (at a really good rate) and fly for proficiency but it's not a hamburger run. You can only have other CAP personnel in the airplane and you have to fly by their rules regarding checking in/out, formal W&B, flight risk analysis, etc. Eventually you'll be expected to qualify as a "working pilot", for example as a Mission Pilot capable of flying search and rescue and photography missions. Or perhaps to fly cadet orientation flights, taking CAP cadets up to teach them about airplanes, kind of a Young Eagles. All this while also participating in a squadron role to help keep the admin running on the ground. There is work involved.

For doing all that, you can get the Air Force to pay for 100% of some of your flying, in a G-1000 182 or maybe a 206 or 172. Depending on how much you do, that could be a very significant number of hours doing some really interesting stuff. CAP was heavily involved with disaster recovery efforts for the oil spill in the Gulf as well as survey work of the damage from Hurricane Sandy, flooding and tornadoes. I know people who have played "red force" for USCG or USAF drug interdiction training.

In the end, there are fun things to do and you can also get free flying along the way. But it's not for everyone, so give it a try and see if you like the people in that immediate squadron, at least enough to pay the $76 annual dues and join for a year. A blue polo shirt with the CAP logo + grey slacks is the only required uniform. The first year costs are about an hour or two of flight time, that isn't much to lose.

Like I said above - there are people who like it and those who think the whole organization is a waste of time. I say decide for yourself.
 
Give it a look, no harm. I did it as a Mission Pilot for 14 years, and there was some good flying. But I left it two years ago, and won't be going back. Too much time wasted, too much Mickey Mouse. But that's just me . . .

Goober percentage varies by squadron, usually between 5 and 50 percent. Your personal tolerance for bureacracy will be a factor, in any squadron. It is thick.

Shop squadrons - they vary in nonsense level and focus. Some are more adult and flying oriented, some are all about cadets. And many are a mix of the two.

Flying - they have plenty of pilots with the basic check ride, but not enough Mission Pilots (pilots who can fly funded missions, like searches, etc.). There are times when CAP can't give away free flying time - the hassles can be too onerous. But that may not be an issue for you.

Expect that many choice missions will be reserved for the Good ol' Boy Network (GOBN). You can crack the GOBN, if you have enough time to spare, and are geo located favorably.

I'd advise finding a squadron with an airplane assigned - you can/can fly other squadron's airplanes, but you can/can be left out of the loop for call outs and other missions in a squadron without an airplane.

You'll encounter low time guys, high time guys, everything in between. I flew regularly with former AF and Navy fighter jocks, two Army helo drivers, and 200 hour PPL SEL guys.

The airplanes are usually maintained and equipped at about the level of a solid FBO. Sometimes much better, but occasionally not nearly as well.

Anyway, go take a look, and also think about comparison shopping squadrons, if there are a few close by.
 
CAP = Come And Pay
Your experience entirely depends on the active or inactive Sr leadership in the squadron.
Many ground training events to be completed before you can fly. Complete the online qualification requirements, but they must be followed by flight evaluation within a set time limit. If the Squadron can't get to it or scheduled before they ground qual expires, you start all over. And repeat it every year.

Many of the CAP flight missions may go on short notice mid week, it's on the requirements schedule not yours. Can't get off work, the available pilot gets the mission. Mostly it's the old retired types that get the repeated calls.

Search and Rescue is a small part. Bigger pieces are driven by Homeland Security and drug interdiction.
A large mission of our local squadron is pseudo Predator operations. A big ball turret under the plane or under a wing, works like a predator operation to train Army ground troops how to work with Predator and interpret the video feed in the field.

Local Sqd has 2 X C182, 1 X C206 and 1 X GA8, plus for the Cadet program, an L-23 Super Blanik, one of the 182s has a glider tow hook. But is not always available, so the local glider club steps in to tow.
 
I think I can universally say, if you're looking to log flight hours..CAP IS NOT an answer
 
I've heard a couple good things about USCG Aux... but my previous cursory google searches came up with link soup.
 
I was a moderatley active MP, and probably averaged 100 hours per year funded. GOBN guys quite a bit more, and also guys who did a lot of cadet orientation flights, and were agressive about chasing down funded training.
 
CAP headquarters is at maxwell afb which is 12 miles from my driveway. There is one squadron there and the only one close enough to work for me. The guy told me that they want to start another squadron at my home drome. I do have a pretty low tolorence for self importance so I would be cautious from the start. I don't mind following rules, so long as everybody does. I really do like to help people, so S&R missions would be right up my alley. But honestly, for me it would be a balance between free flying and putting up with BS. I think I'll go to a meeting and at least meet the people.
 
I was in CAP for a year. After about 6 months I stopped going. I wanted to help but the ******** was knee deep and my best assessment of the active adult members is they are military Wannabes who never made the cut. Probably not all squadrons are that way, but I did over a decade active duty and couldn't stomach these clowns any more so I just stopped going. Never even got a phone call asking why I wasn't there. They were too consumed in their own self revelry.
 
Don't know CAP, but do know Angel Flight. And I would definitely recommend the latter to any instrument rated pilot wanting to fly doing something worthwhile and highly rewarding. There are ways of getting fuel and other direct expenses paid for (which I don't use). No BS whatsoever, everyone is focused on the mission: getting the patient and companion(s) from A to B safely and comfortably.
 
I was in CAP as a cadet a few decades ago. Really enjoyed the learning side as a kid. I've been active in the Army for over 10 years, 6 as an aviator, and when I went back to join as an adult I wouldn't deal with the BS. I wanted to help kids get the aviation bug like I did, but that wasn't what they wanted from me. I have my own kid to focus on and we fly Pilots-N-Paws regularly. I think he just likes playing with puppies.
 
Local CAP tried to recruit me but I just don't have the time to devote to their cause. Since I own my own aircraft, I have no need to build time in a C182 and odds of me flying on a flight that actually matters in my area, slim. Really didn't want to go back to playing soldier again at the bottom of the food chain either. I put that behind me when I retired.

I think it could be a good program for kids. Kids need direction and mentors like those in CAP. I gave their kids a class on "leadership day" and offered to fly them anytime but that's really the extent of my involvement.
 
I talked to a couple of squadrons in my area, read comments on here, and other sources and I decided after 20 years in the Air Force and another 24 flying for the airlines I didn't need anymore BS and GOBN in my life. I really wanted to help and encourage kids, instruct them, and also fly real missions. But I don't need everything else that comes with it. Already have a couple of those T-shirts.
 
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Didn't work for me. The most inefficient, ineffective organization I have ever been involved with. Hopefully other squadrons may be better. Too much bureaucracy and too many wanting to play at being military.
 
All depends on the unit that you are a member of and what you expect to get out of it.
Like everything else, there are good units and bad ones.
I was in units in both Connecticut and Nebraska.
There were NO aircraft in the CT units ---- their contribution was GROUND searches
Nebraska had a single Cessna 150 and I was able to get about 10 hours in it over a 2 year period.
Never saw another unit that impressed me, although I know the units in New Mexico are aviation oriented, but was not impressed with their structure (but then I am adversely impressed with the local VA and VFW units, so maybe it's me).

You can't tell whether you will be happy with them unless you visit frequently and/or join and provide a year or so of service.
But, as others have said, if it's just the flying that you're looking at, go elsewhere. Flying is a sideline to their main functions (which are primarily administrative/paperhanging)
 
mikeinbama said:
Ironically, as soon as I posted this, I got an email from the guy. He invited me to a meeting and said they are always looking for pilots to fly " for free".
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He's referring to Mission Pilot proficiency flights which are a thing but getting Mission Pilot status can be a time-consuming venture. That said, I fly a well equipped 172 for about $70 an hour, so even when you have to pay for your own flying it doesn't hurt quite so much. There a lot of red tape and a fair amount of BS, it just depends what your threshold is for that kind of thing. I've learned some cool stuff in CAP but there's a lot of BS to wade thru. Also depends on your squadron. Mine is very laid back and very infrequently do we don anything other than our blue polos and grey slacks. There are a few Ranger Ricks out there but that's with anything. Same mentality I recall from my Boy Scout days.
 
I don't know how many, but the local squadron has G1000 182's and also at least one Maule that they tow gliders with. I do not suffer fools gladly and would probably be the guy that they kick out of the group because I would call the Ranger Rick's out. I'll talk to the guy a little bit more, but I think its not for me. Thanks for the replys everyone!
 
mikeinbama said:
I don't know how many, but the local squadron has G1000 182's and also at least one Maule that they tow gliders with. I do not suffer fools gladly and would probably be the guy that they kick out of the group because I would call the Ranger Rick's out. I'll talk to the guy a little bit more, but I think its not for me. Thanks for the replys everyone!
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I visited that Squadron not too long ago. They had two gliders as well. I think only one was owned by CAP. Nice little hangar and decent people it seemed like to me.
 
ircphoenix said:
I've heard a couple good things about USCG Aux... but my previous cursory google searches came up with link soup.
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It's great if you own your own plane and have the hours to qualify, basically they cover the cost of running your own plane, prop start to stop, folks tend to be a little more mission focused and not so much on playing dress up, they offer boating saftey classes to the public, look for distressed vessels and help out with some anti-drug type stuff too. Only draw back is it takes forever to get your security clearence done as they are super back logged.
 
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Sounds like too much work and I think many of the CAP guys take them selves way too seriously. Wearing a full on NOMAX uniform to fly a Cessna 172 sounds a bit overkill to me.
 
RotorDude said:
Don't know CAP, but do know Angel Flight. And I would definitely recommend the latter to any instrument rated pilot wanting to fly doing something worthwhile and highly rewarding. There are ways of getting fuel and other direct expenses paid for (which I don't use). No BS whatsoever, everyone is focused on the mission: getting the patient and companion(s) from A to B safely and comfortably.
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I fly a lot of Angel Flights. What are some of the ways of getting fuel and other direct expenses paid for? I'm certainly not trying to figure out a way to "work" the system, but if you know of some legit ways to ease the $$ involved...I'm all ears :)
 
Blueangel said:
Sounds like too much work and I think many of the CAP guys take them selves way too seriously. Wearing a full on NOMAX uniform to fly a Cessna 172 sounds a bit overkill to me.
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Shy of a true need to be quasi fireproof, anyone who chooses to wear a nomex monkey suit needs their head checked.

My least favorite material, it's hot when it's hot outside, it's cold when it's cold outside, not comfy or stylish wear at all.
 
S Joslin said:
I fly a lot of Angel Flights. What are some of the ways of getting fuel and other direct expenses paid for? I'm certainly not trying to figure out a way to "work" the system, but if you know of some legit ways to ease the $$ involved...I'm all ears :)
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It's not some sneaky trick, if that's what you think.
I don't recall all the details, but I think you need to get a (minimum) second class medical, 100 hour inspection on the plane, and better IFR currency than the part 91 minimum. I think you are also limited to higher minimums on approaches. (Somewhere along those lines they lost me, esp. on the higher minimums. :) )
But if you do follow all those requirements, the AF organization (maybe not all of them -- not sure) is allowed to pay your direct expenses.
 
James331 said:
Shy of a true need to be quasi fireproof, anyone who chooses to wear a nomex monkey suit needs their head checked.

My least favorite material, it's hot when it's hot outside, it's cold when it's cold outside, not comfy or stylish wear at all.
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I sometimes wore one in CAP, over NOMEX long-johns, on the coldest of winter days. I had a few from USAF days, and 100LL is nasty, low flash point, burns hot, thin wall tanks, real close to the cockpit; and not nearly as "user friendly" as JP-4. But 95% of the time I wore a CAP polo shirt and gray dockers, with black "coaches" shoes.

Most squadrons, all you'll need is a polo and slacks to fly. Or do most anything else.
 
LOL!

I'd recommend joining the Taliban before I would recommend CAP.
 
mikeinbama said:
I guess I'm more curious about the flying. I can put up with some stuff if I get to fly a well equipped plane for cheaper.
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Compared to other volunteer flying outfits, CAP would not be my first choice simply due to the amount of hoops you have to jump through to do anything with the organization.

That said, doesn't hurt to check them out. Go to a meeting and see if you feel like it's a good group. There are good units and some pretty bad ones.
 
James331 said:
Shy of a true need to be quasi fireproof, anyone who chooses to wear a nomex monkey suit needs their head checked.

My least favorite material, it's hot when it's hot outside, it's cold when it's cold outside, not comfy or stylish wear at all.
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For whatever reason, naval aviators seem to love nomex. They will wear flight suits as a preferred every day uniform even when they are not in a flying status.
 
NOMEX is not required nationally by CAP, but several wings do require it for SAR and DR missions. Not for transport, cadet, or training missions (unless training for SAR or DR).

I very seldom see people wear them by choice.

As for the "cosplay," BS. I saw two examples over last weekend of mission pilots wearing badges with lower ranks on them. No one gives a damn. Except for those who really are military. Most are active duty, a few retired. Before someone says it varies by squadron, this was at the largest annual statewide exercise in California.

Rank is irrelevant in CAP. It's all about qualification and professionalism. I just evaluated a higher ranked squadron commander as an observer. He had some significant issues and didn't qualify. Real nice guy, but I wouldn't want

I've seen no examples of an old boy network. I'm about two years in and fully qualified in all the common aircrew positions including mission pilot. There is definitely some overhead, and I wouldn't recommend joining just for low cost flight. It is only free if the Air Force orders it. Many functions do not qualify. Then, it's $45 dry for a 182. G1000 costs the same, but the steam gauge airplanes are more capable. Flying a search is very different from a burger run.
 
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