"Is there anything else you'd like to try?"

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Cpt_Kirk, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. Cpt_Kirk

    Cpt_Kirk En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,297
    Location:
    Georgia

    Display name:
    Ted Striker
    Hey all,

    I know there are a few airline drivers here so I thought I'd throw this out before I posted on some other airline-oriented forums. I finished up a maneuver's val. today far ahead of schedule and after we were done checking the boxes, I got the question - "Is there anything else you'd like to try?"

    I really couldn't come up with anything except for max. crosswind landings but hate wasted sim time. Does anyone have any personal favorite scenarios they have had in the past? Stuff that really works the mind? Something unusual or funky? Anything you've come up with at the bar? Interesting? etc. I'd appreciate some thrown my way.

    Some of the comments I hear from older, or mainline guys is that our sims are canned and they miss the stuff the used to run in the boxes "back in the day." I'd like some stuff like that.

    *edit - "mental workout" was the phrase I was looking for.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  2. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    6,967

    Display name:
    Kritchlow
    If you’re in a sim... a real sim, I know a few games to play.

    Please ask if interested.

    I also ALWAYS ask for a dual engine failure.

    For fun I have also asked for single engine takeoffs.
     
  3. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,737
    Location:
    Marietta, GA

    Display name:
    Dave Theisen
    Approach into Aspen. Came in handy because I finally made it there back in November.
     
    overdrive148 likes this.
  4. Cpt_Kirk

    Cpt_Kirk En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,297
    Location:
    Georgia

    Display name:
    Ted Striker
    I'm assuming you mean the box. Yes, an FAA approved sim that I got my type in.

    I wish but I don't think we have that in our database...
     
  5. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    6,967

    Display name:
    Kritchlow
    If you want to know the games just ask. Very good actually.

    I’m certain if you are in a real sim (box), you have aspen. I believe most databases are shared, although I could be wrong.
    What school???
     
  6. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    6,967

    Display name:
    Kritchlow
    What type?
     
  7. Cpt_Kirk

    Cpt_Kirk En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,297
    Location:
    Georgia

    Display name:
    Ted Striker
    EMB145

    We have generic airports besides a few major ones in the northeast (whatever that means here) but ill ask.
     
  8. SixPapaCharlie

    SixPapaCharlie May the force be with you

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    14,943

    Display name:
    Sixer
    You are out of my league but the few times I have played in the Global Sim I did:
    The hudson flight.
    Surprise thrust reverser at some point in flight.
    Asymmetric flap deployment
     
  9. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    6,967

    Display name:
    Kritchlow
    I’ve done a TR deployment at 350kts. The first two times I crashed and burned. Then I learned how to do it. The toughest maneuver on the planet... although it can never happen. The aerodynamics at that speed keep it closed regardless. It’s designed that way. It was a great learning experience none the less.
     
  10. Cpt_Kirk

    Cpt_Kirk En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,297
    Location:
    Georgia

    Display name:
    Ted Striker
    Done the Hudson. That was one fun. I landed in the water on the first one. The second time around I made a turn to LGA, landed, and used the remaining energy to roll to a gate. lol
    That's a good idea. Ill jot that one down.
    That's also good.

    Thanks. If any other GA guys have stuff to add, feel free.

    Our RJ has actual buckets, though. They're locked in place but that's one ill write down for sure.
     
  11. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    10,594
    Location:
    Yona (Say Joan ya), Guam

    Display name:
    Greg Bockelman
    Several years ago, when I was still flying the 777, we had some time so I asked if Meigs was still in the box. It was so we set up a visual approach to 36. We were pretty light but not at minimum fuel. We touched down fairly close to the end of the runway and were stopped with about 500 feet to spare. If I recall, that runway was 4000 feet long. Amazing what 12 big carbon brakes can do.

    Most of the time when asked that question, I just want to get out of the box and go hom.
     
    Cpt_Kirk likes this.
  12. SixPapaCharlie

    SixPapaCharlie May the force be with you

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    14,943

    Display name:
    Sixer

    So we were just clowning around at CAE but the asymmetric flap deployment taught me a pretty good lesson (And I know you know this but I didn't).
    I hit the flaps and the plane rolled and I began fighting with ailerons and eventually rudder.

    My buddy goes "Why don't you try undoing what you just did?"

    It was a good lesson for me because I had never been instructed to undo the last thing you did if something is not right.
    I just started troubleshooting as if this were square 1 versus realizing square 1 was back a few steps.
     
  13. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    14,135
    Location:
    high desert NM

    Display name:
    Billy
    Me too..!!!!

    I did try a engine failure with no auto feather right at rotation on a KA 90 sim. Doable, but not pretty.
     
  14. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    3,037

    Display name:
    SoCal RV Flyer
    I think a recovery from a fully developed stall at FL370 would be quite interesting. Do they teach this?

    An unlikely scenario, but it's happened before with no airspeed indication courtesy of pitot ice. Scary stuff.
     
  15. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    6,967

    Display name:
    Kritchlow
    Yup. They do now. It’s not pretty, but doable there is no altitude loss limitation on the maneuver.... Thank God.
     
    SoCal RV Flyer likes this.
  16. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,847

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    I remember reading about a Lauda crash that killed everyone from an engine going reverse in flight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauda_Air_Flight_004 that's been a small irrational fear when flying since reading that. Good to know that contemporary tech is immune to this

    Funny how your mind wants to go forward, instead of back. When I first read that I played it out in my head and I was thinking the same with rudder and aileron. Now it seems crazy obvious to just retract them, duh!
     
  17. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,847

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    Funny, after AF447 I was always curious how many pilots would survive this if confronted with the same failures that the crew faced that night
     
  18. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    6,967

    Display name:
    Kritchlow
    Indeed I have no doubt it can happen on some. My point is on some aircraft the enging shape is designed that it cannot open at speed.
    We are not talking mechanical failure here, but rather the law of physics.
     
  19. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,429

    Display name:
    Sluggo63
    Sim Instructor: “Well, we’re done early, what else do you want to see?”

    Me: *unbuckling my lap belt and gathering my stuff*
    “The bottom of a beer glass.”
     
    TCABM and kayoh190 like this.
  20. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    23,226
    Location:
    Alabama

    Display name:
    Mark
    Yup. I'm outa here most of the time, but that was very rare. The IPs had a lot to cover. On occasion did some extra stuff. Did the D.C.-10 that lost all three hydraulic systems, Iowa I believe it was actually. We did it into ATL but everything else was set up like Iowa. I made it to the runway successfully. Of course a no pressure situation.
     
  21. jordane93

    jordane93 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,149
    Location:
    Long Island, NY

    Display name:
    Jordan
    “No thanks. Can I go to the airport now and catch an earlier flight home.”:D
     
  22. Cpt_Kirk

    Cpt_Kirk En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,297
    Location:
    Georgia

    Display name:
    Ted Striker
    I should have known how most of these answers would turned out...

    :D
     
    TCABM likes this.
  23. jordane93

    jordane93 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,149
    Location:
    Long Island, NY

    Display name:
    Jordan
    Me as soon as we’re done with debriefing and the instructor says you’re free to go

    [​IMG]
     
  24. StevieTimes

    StevieTimes Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    877
    Location:
    Minnesota

    Display name:
    StevieTimes
    My brother flew with a sim check dude, and they were in the same position (finished early).

    The check guy said "Mind if I fly an approach?". My brother obliged.

    He turned the passenger jet upside down, flew the approach to minimums, then flipped it back over and landed.

    You could try that...?
     
    Palmpilot likes this.
  25. Bill

    Bill Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    13,597
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee

    Display name:
    This page intentionally left blank
    One of my partners in the Mooney is an E190 driver and sometimes runs the sim, I need to ask him if I could ever get seat time someday. That would be awesome.
     
    overdrive148 likes this.
  26. Getonit

    Getonit Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2013
    Messages:
    438

    Display name:
    Mark
    Regarding the high altitude stalls, I was told the simulator doesn't replicate them very accurately as they never tested and documented accurately or the sim company didn't want to buy all of that data to build into sim, as they didn't need it. Take your pick on what is true. This is on small GA jets, citation and hawker.

    Since you are looking for stupid tricks....from takeoff how fast can you get land back on deporting runway, without going straight ahead. Basically, a low circle at about 50 AGL.
     
    jonnyjetprop likes this.
  27. jordane93

    jordane93 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,149
    Location:
    Long Island, NY

    Display name:
    Jordan
    We had extra time one session and I did the expressway Visual 31 with a no flap landing with fair braking action.
     
  28. jaybee

    jaybee Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,143
    Location:
    sometimes Cocoa, FL

    Display name:
    jaybee
    battery power only, on the Standby instrument - no other screens, bingo fuel: DCA ILS 1 Night (IAD BWI closed), blowing snow 200 OVC 1800 RVR icing and no radar altimeter

    :)
     
  29. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    3,037

    Display name:
    SoCal RV Flyer
    I was thinking that might be true. Is there any requirement for commercial pilots in, say, a 777 to try that stall in actual training....or too risky?
     
  30. Ravioli

    Ravioli Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    8,024
    Location:
    Somewhere else

    Display name:
    Unwanted Guest - Perma-ban Pending
    This is an important thing for you to remember. Especially in low wing planes. If you change tanks, and the RPMs drop, change it back, then grab the check list and look for another cause.
     
    Tantalum and SixPapaCharlie like this.
  31. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,847

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    How accurate are these models for extreme maneuvers like this? Would the airfoil, on say, a 737, really fly well enough, inverted, to do a controlled approach to minimums? If I had millions these "stupid" tricks might be fun to try with some of the old boneyard planes and a remote pilot setup

    I think I read the same after AF447. That crews "could" practice it, but it wouldn't really replicate the real thing

    I've always wondered that too. There are some good videos on Youtube of large commercial airliners doing all sorts of maneuvers, including various stalls, etc during certification. By nature of the plane being certificated it shouldn't be "too dangerous" .. maybe cost prohibitive, but I would think no simulator can replace the actual sensation of stalling a 777 at altitude. I seem to recall watching an interview somewhere with a 747 pilot who said the stalls in it were remarkably stable, coordinated, and easy to recover from. Apparently lightly loaded you could power out of a stall without even lowering the nose. Just full stick back and max throttle.
     
  32. nrpetersen

    nrpetersen Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    588
    Location:
    Minnetonka MN

    Display name:
    nrpetersen
    As an ancient SE Cub driver only, what happens in a high altitude AF447 type stall that makes everyone respect them?

    If there was such a simulator, I'd just like to try a short coupled (like a Knight Twister) TW X/W takeoff/landing roll:eek:......
     
  33. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    10,048
    Location:
    Wichita, KS

    Display name:
    MauleSkinner
    Aerodynamically possible or not, the engines would probably quit from fuel starvation.
     
  34. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    10,048
    Location:
    Wichita, KS

    Display name:
    MauleSkinner
    As an over-simplification, the airplane needs to pass roughly the same number of air molecules to recover...at 35,000 feet, air density is roughly a quarter of sea level density.

    The bigger factor is the fact that AF447, via several causes, found themselves at 41 degrees angle of attack, descending at 11,000 ft/minute. I think the estimate was that it would take about 28,000 feet to recover from that point.
     
    nrpetersen likes this.
  35. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    2,206
    Location:
    Sw florida

    Display name:
    bob
    for the most part there is no actual training in the airline world. all sim, the first time you fly the jet for real its a revenue leg with passengers in the back and a ioe airman in the other seat.

    bob
     
    SoCal RV Flyer likes this.
  36. jkaduk

    jkaduk Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,287
    Location:
    San Diego, California

    Display name:
    John Kaduk
    I was thinking along those lines. Loops, rolls, landings on dirt strips, area 51 etc...
     
  37. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Messages:
    7,152
    Location:
    PA

    Display name:
    PAFlyer
  38. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    13,572
    Location:
    My own special place.

    Display name:
    Canis Non Grata
    Let's see, what else can we try....

    how about the Denzel Washington maneuver from Flight?

    Of course, we need to get in the right frame of mind first.
     
  39. jonnyjetprop

    jonnyjetprop Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,050
    Location:
    Apopka, FL

    Display name:
    John
    At World Airways, we used to shut off all of the automation and fly touch and goes with increasing crosswinds. No visual glide slope either. This was in the MD-11 and B-747-400.
     
  40. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    19,368
    Location:
    PUDBY

    Display name:
    Richard Palm