iPad mounts and kneeboards

Rusty, nothing is perfect. The iPad could be improved by being a 7" screen but that is about it. The GPS is good enough for something that you can't legally use for IFR anyway.

As to screen intensity, I have never felt the urge to have it brighter. At night, I turn the screen brightness all the way down to help preserve night vision and it does fine. Then again, I am in Ohio and the sun never shines very brightly here...
 
Morne said:
Rusty, nothing is perfect. The iPad could be improved by being a 7" screen but that is about it. The GPS is good enough for something that you can't legally use for IFR anyway.

As to screen intensity, I have never felt the urge to have it brighter. At night, I turn the screen brightness all the way down to help preserve night vision and it does fine. Then again, I am in Ohio and the sun never shines very brightly here...
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Some things are closer to perfection than others. Take me for example :rofl: If you're happy with your iPad, great. I hate mine and don't personally know anyone except a King Air pilot who like theirs. Just tryin' to warn others before they pick up that glass of Kool-Aid.
 
bartmc said:
Some things are closer to perfection than others. Take me for example :rofl: If you're happy with your iPad, great. I hate mine and don't personally know anyone except a King Air pilot who like theirs. Just tryin' to warn others before they pick up that glass of Kool-Aid.
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I think your PSA is to far down the chain of events. If people are looking for a mount, they probably already have made there mind up about the iPad, and there aviation applications of choice.
 
Mafoo said:
I think your PSA is to far down the chain of events. If people are looking for a mount, they probably already have made there mind up about the iPad, and there aviation applications of choice.
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Or OP could spend 200 to 300 bucks on various mounts and gizmos only to have a pile of them at the house. "In your flight bag" is where I'd recommend mounting it.
 
bartmc said:
Just that the iPad form factor was not designed with aviation in mind. It's too bulky, the screen is to dim, the GPS is flaky. .
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Do you realize that there is way to adjust screen brightness (in iPad settings)?
 
sdflyer said:
Do you realize that there is way to adjust screen brightness (in iPad settings)?
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Yea, but he is right. The iPad at it's brightest setting still sucks in direct sunlight. It just wasn't designed for it.

Still a lot better then nothing, if you ask me.
 
sdflyer said:
Do you realize that there is way to adjust screen brightness (in iPad settings)?
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You can mitigate some of the glare with a $30 piece of plastic but the sun will wash out the picture no matter screen setting.
 
bartmc said:
You can mitigate some of the glare with a $30 piece of plastic but the sun will wash out the picture no matter screen setting.
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May be it's because of the way you mount it. I don't have too much sunlight issues
 
Mafoo said:
Yea, but he is right. The iPad at it's brightest setting still sucks in direct sunlight. It just wasn't designed for it.

Still a lot better then nothing, if you ask me.
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My eyes suck in direct sunlight as well :D
 
sdflyer said:
May be it's because of the way you mount it. I don't have too much sunlight issues
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Which way would that be? On the yoke, on my knee, suctioned to the window or stored in my flight bag? Visibility is all about the same either way, the bonus for being in the flight bag is that it's not in the way of anything. :D
 
I wish I could tell you which iPad mount I bought at OSH 2010, so that you could avoid it. It suction-cupped to the glass, and enabled you to mount the iPad on the side window, more out of the way.

Mary broke it on the flight home. Snapped the cheap plastic right at the ball while adjusting it. (It was NOT "RAM" brand.)
:mad2:
 
Jay Honeck said:
Mary broke it on the flight home. Snapped the cheap plastic right at the ball while adjusting it. (It was NOT "RAM" brand.)
:mad2:
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I have an iPhone mound for my bike. It's made by RAM.

I have a car suction cup mount for my GPS. It's made by RAM.

I just got the first half of the parts for a yoke mounted iPad today. It's made by RAM.

RAM is to mounts, as USAA is to Insurance. The only company I will ever use.
 
Hmmm.... if you are going to use it as a "chart", why not just use the chart?? What does the iPad do that your Garmin doesn't already do? Admittantly, I'm not up on the capacities of the iPad for aviation use, just never saw the need for VFR flight. I can see where it would be useful IFR.
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Three answers come to mind:
1) Seamless charts
2) Always current
3) Cheaper than paper
 
bartmc said:
Some things are closer to perfection than others. Take me for example :rofl: If you're happy with your iPad, great. I hate mine and don't personally know anyone except a King Air pilot who like theirs. Just tryin' to warn others before they pick up that glass of Kool-Aid.
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I find that amazing. Every time I turn around I meet another pilot who is as excited about flying with their iPad as I have been the last 14 months or so. Recently added the Nexus 7 as an alternate/backup, but can't imagine flying without it. Not much of an Apple fan, but the iPad is darn useful aviation device...not to mention useful outside the cockpit. Typed this on it while lying in bed....tough to do on an Aera.
 
bartmc said:
Some things are closer to perfection than others. Take me for example :rofl: If you're happy with your iPad, great. I hate mine and don't personally know anyone except a King Air pilot who like theirs.
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Maybe you need more friends; I don't personally know any pilots who don't like theirs. That includes the 30 or so who raised their hands at the last iPad in the cockpit seminar I went to.

Personally, I prefer it so much more than the paper I used to carry around. And even in the bright Colorado sunlight, I haven't had much problem seeing it.

YMMV (and obviously does)
 
midlifeflyer said:
Maybe you need more friends; I don't personally know any pilots who don't like theirs. That includes the 30 or so who raised their hands at the last iPad in the cockpit seminar I went to.

Personally, I prefer it so much more than the paper I used to carry around. And even in the bright Colorado sunlight, I haven't had much problem seeing it.

YMMV (and obviously does)
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30 people at an "iPad in the cockpit" seminar? raised their hands? YGBFSM!!... This just in 100% of the people surveyed in church this past Sunday say they are in fact religious. Enjoy your iPad, there's better products out there, but if you bought one, you wouldn't be able to chime in on the endless threads about how to mount an iPad, what screen protector to use to attempt to make it visible in flight, how to keep it from overheating or what additional GPS chip you need to actually make it work. When you decide on all that, then you can figure out how to keep the 3rd party GPS from turning off in flight or figure out some sort of way to show the satellite information. But the biggest thing you wouldn't be able to do is rant on at the hangar about how your $800.00 iPad with an $800 weather receiver, $100 GPS chip, $30 anti-glare screen protector, $200 worth of mounts that you had to take to a tool and die shop and one or two $100-$200/year subscriptions saved you so much money over a purpose built and much superior Aera 796 (except it doesn't run Angry Birds) I was duped into buying one because of all the cheerleaders on this board, worst aviation purchase to date. It took me a few months to realize that I wasn't doing anything wrong, that the iPad just sucks for anything more than ground based aviation entertainment.
 
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bartmc said:
But the biggest thing you wouldn't be able to do is rant on at the hangar about how your $800.00 iPad with an $800 weather receiver, $100 GPS chip, $30 anti-glare screen protector, $200 worth of mounts that you had to take to a tool and die shop and one or two $100-$200/year subscriptions...
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This is starting to sound like a fishing story :)

iPad: $400
ADS-B: $800
GPS Chip: in the ADS-B
Mount: $65
ForeFlight: $75 bucks a year.

We will leave out the anti-glare, because some don't want or need it.

So Your cost: $2,000. Real cost: $1,340

This doesn't account for those like me, who owned an iPad anyway. For me, it's $940.
 
Mafoo said:
This is starting to sound like a fishing story :)

iPad: $400
ADS-B: $800
GPS Chip: in the ADS-B
Mount: $65
ForeFlight: $75 bucks a year.

We will leave out the anti-glare, because some don't want or need it.

So Your cost: $2,000. Real cost: $1,340

This doesn't account for those like me, who owned an iPad anyway. For me, it's $940.
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My iPad was over $800, I didn't even include the case or the power adapters that add another $110 to it.
 
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Mafoo said:
I have an iPhone mound for my bike. It's made by RAM.

I have a car suction cup mount for my GPS. It's made by RAM.

I just got the first half of the parts for a yoke mounted iPad today. It's made by RAM.

RAM is to mounts, as USAA is to Insurance. The only company I will ever use.
Click to expand...

Me, too, now! In 2010, I wasn't so smart.

My Nexus 7 yoke mount is made by RAM. It's fantastic.
 
bartmc said:
My iPad was over $800, I didn't even include the case.
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The point is if an iPad is a useful tool in the cockpit. Not if you overpaid for such a device.

I have the same one you have, and I paid over $800 for everything else in the world it does.

Being something I can fly with, is just a bonus. If however, I wanted one just to be a cockpit tool, I would spend $400.
 
Mafoo said:
The point is if an iPad is a useful tool in the cockpit. Not if you overpaid for such a device.

I have the same one you have, and I paid over $800 for everything else in the world it does.

Being something I can fly with, is just a bonus. If however, I wanted one just to be a cockpit tool, I would spend $400.
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You have the right attitude.
 
bartmc said:
My iPad was over $800, I didn't even include the case or the power adapters that add another $110 to it.
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The point is you can spend half that and have the functionality needed for a great cockpit device. I'm thrilled your $2400 Aera and it's $500-800 annual subscription makes more sense for you than my $400 iPad and $150 FF subscription. To each their own.
 
LDJones said:
The point is you can spend half that and have the functionality needed for a great cockpit device. I'm thrilled your $2400 Aera and it's $500-800 annual subscription makes more sense for you than my $400 iPad and $150 FF subscription. To each their own.
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You can spend half again less and get a new Android device in a much better form factor with a brighter screen that makes an even better cockpit device than an iPad. Spend even 100 less than that and get an AV8OR that is superior to both for a cockpit device. iPads make horrible cockpit devices, they're overpriced it's a consumer level entertainment device being forced to marginally work in the cockpit. For a great deal you could buy a $7.00 chart. If you're like Mafoo and think "Being able to fly with it is a Bonus" You'll be happy, buy it thinking you're getting a deal on an Aera replacement, you'll be sorely disappointed.
 
bartmc said:
You can spend half again less and get a new Android device in a much better form factor with a brighter screen that makes an even better cockpit device than an iPad. Spend even 100 less than that and get an AV8OR that is superior to both for a cockpit device. iPads make horrible cockpit devices, they're overpriced it's a consumer level entertainment device being forced to marginally work in the cockpit. For a great deal you could buy a $7.00 chart. If you're like Mafoo and think "Being able to fly with it is a Bonus" You'll be happy, buy it thinking you're getting a deal on an Aera replacement, you'll be sorely disappointed.
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Nobody here is saying our device that cost 1/6 of the Area is anything like it. Only your making that comparison.

And if the Nexus 7 would run Foreflight and connected to an ADS-B free weather service box with high quality GPS, I would recommend is for someone who has to buy everything from scratch.

If there was something that was $100 that did it, I would recommend that.

For everything they both do, I agree the Aera does them beter. However How well does it:

Show gas prices?
Split screen and show two things at one? Like Wing-X
Receive TIS alerts (looks like it needs an optional accessory for that)?
If you have LightSpeed Zulu 2's, record all radio communication?

I am sure if I thought about it, I could come up with a dozen more things it does that's useful in the cockpit. I tried to find something the Area did that the iPad can't do, and I couldn't.
 
bartmc said:
I know how the herd mentality on message boards work :D I'm saying met, as in at the airport where people fly planes, shake hands and lie to each other face to face and don't participate in online message boards where other people tell them what they should love. I'm not saying that FF isn't the greatest software ever made. Just that the iPad form factor was not designed with aviation in mind. It's too bulky, the screen is to dim, the GPS is flaky. The fact that there are a gigazillian threads and posts on various aviation boards asking "Where do I mount it?" and "What anti-glare screen protector should I buy?" ought to tell the uninitiated that maybe some folks are just trying to shove a square peg into a round hole over a toy they spent some money on and are going to "make it work" come hell or high water. I know FF is cool and I know people dump a lot of money into their iThings so there's some emotion involved. At the end of the day all that really matters is if the user of said iPad is happy. My advice for anyone who doesn't have one, go to any aviation board and count the number of "How do I mount this behemoth in my plane? How do I get the screen brighter?" threads then go count the number of them for an Aera 796 or similar.
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I couldn't agree more! IMO, the I-pad is to large for a kneeboard, and to dim to take the place of an MFD on a panel. The Nexus 7 is almost the exact screen size of my Garmin 696. I love the graphics of the Nexus 7, but this device & the Ipad don't even get close to the brightness of the Garmin, which is easily readable under all sunlight conditions. If it did come down to mounting an Nexus 7 or Ipad on a yoke mount, it would definately be the Nexus..............strickly due to size & weight.

L.Adamson
 
"Three answers come to mind:
1) Seamless charts
2) Always current
3) Cheaper than paper"
+
4) No need to spend time updating Jep charts. I just let my Jep subscription run out and am just fine with the ipad and Foreflight. The enroute and approach charts have plenty of contrast even in sunlight. The only complaint I have is the enroute charts don't have the class B detail that the Jeps have. And there is no large scale planning chart like the Jep U.S. 1 & 2.
 
L.Adamson said:
If it did come down to mounting an Nexus 7 or Ipad on a yoke mount, it would definately be the Nexus..............strickly due to size & weight.
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If the Nexus had portable ADS-B weather and Foreflight or Wing-X, I would agree. I am sure it's just a matter of time before someone makes a weather box. I am surprised no one has hacked the Stratus yet to run on Android.

When the smaller iPad comes out, if the price is right, I am going to buy one. I am hoping the lowest model will be in the $250 range.

I definitely agree a 7" screen is a much better size as a cockpit tool.
 
Mafoo said:
If the Nexus had portable ADS-B weather and Foreflight or Wing-X, I would agree. I am sure it's just a matter of time before someone makes a weather box. I am surprised no one has hacked the Stratus yet to run on Android.

When the smaller iPad comes out, if the price is right, I am going to buy one. I am hoping the lowest model will be in the $250 range.

I definitely agree a 7" screen is a much better size as a cockpit tool.
Click to expand...

Beat me to it. I'm also considering the mini iPad if and when it comes out.
 
Mafoo said:
Nobody here is saying our device that cost 1/6 of the Area is anything like it. Only your making that comparison.

And if the Nexus 7 would run Foreflight and connected to an ADS-B free weather service box with high quality GPS, I would recommend is for someone who has to buy everything from scratch.

If there was something that was $100 that did it, I would recommend that.

For everything they both do, I agree the Aera does them beter. However How well does it:

Show gas prices?
Split screen and show two things at one? Like Wing-X
Receive TIS alerts (looks like it needs an optional accessory for that)?
If you have LightSpeed Zulu 2's, record all radio communication?

I am sure if I thought about it, I could come up with a dozen more things it does that's useful in the cockpit. I tried to find something the Area did that the iPad can't do, and I couldn't.
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Garmin makes some decent Android software and you can buy your ADS-B weather receiver right now if you want. One thing the area does is logically mount in your plane in various places (the panel even) without interrupting your control movement or blocking your view of half the panel. Another thing that it does that comes in handy, is being able to actually see it on a nice day in a low wing plane. Another thing it does is it has a far superior built in GPS to any of the 3rd party ones that you either burn up battery bluetoothing over or putting a clunky dongle in. The Aera and all it's mounts were obviously designed to be mounted in a plane. Nobody ever asks how to mount it, because it comes with everything you need to get it right the first time. That wasn't an accident on Garmin's part. If you think the FF and/or WingX software is superior to the Area 796 software, we'll that's your opinion, I'll take the Area software all day any day and twice on Sunday over any of the iPad offerings. For reference, I bought a $150 AV8OR to replace my $850 iPad, I couldn't be happier. IMHO the navigation software on the AV8OR is superior to the iPad software, the terrain is hands down better, it mounts BEAUTIFULLY in the Bonanza with the hardware it came with and after 7hrs of flying with it in the summer, I have yet to have the screen wash out. I prefer paper approach plates (because you can actually see them better in the sun) so i don't even miss those.
 
bartmc said:
Garmin makes some decent Android software and you can buy your ADS-B weather receiver right now if you want. One thing the area does is logically mount in your plane in various places (the panel even) without interrupting your control movement or blocking your view of half the panel. Another thing that it does that comes in handy, is being able to actually see it on a nice day in a low wing plane. Another thing it does is it has a far superior built in GPS to any of the 3rd party ones that you either burn up battery bluetoothing over or putting a clunky dongle in. The Aera and all it's mounts were obviously designed to be mounted in a plane. Nobody ever asks how to mount it, because it comes with everything you need to get it right the first time. That wasn't an accident on Garmin's part. If you think the FF and/or WingX software is superior to the Area 796 software, we'll that's your opinion, I'll take the Area software all day any day and twice on Sunday over any of the iPad offerings. For reference, I bought a $150 AV8OR to replace my $850 iPad, I couldn't be happier. IMHO the navigation software on the AV8OR is superior to the iPad software, the terrain is hands down better, it mounts BEAUTIFULLY in the Bonanza with the hardware it came with and after 7hrs of flying with it in the summer, I have yet to have the screen wash out. I prefer paper approach plates (because you can actually see them better in the sun) so i don't even miss those.
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I am glad you found options that works well for you. The issue I take (and the one I took with Jay in another thread), is the attitude that because you find it the best fit for you, that must mean it's the best solution, and the only reason others find there preferred solution optimum, is because they don't know any better.

It's one thing to come in a say "I tried it for a while, it didn't work out for me, so this is what I am doing now". It's an entirely different conversation to say "I tried it, it's stupid, and everyone who is telling you otherwise are sheep".
 
Mafoo said:
I am glad you found options that works well for you. The issue I take (and the one I took with Jay in another thread), is the attitude that because you find it the best fit for you, that must mean it's the best solution, and the only reason others find there preferred solution optimum, is because they don't know any better.

It's one thing to come in a say "I tried it for a while, it didn't work out for me, so this is what I am doing now". It's an entirely different conversation to say "I tried it, it's stupid, and everyone who is telling you otherwise are sheep".
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Never said any of that. I know anything but glowing praise of an iPad is sacrilege but I'm just offering my view that there are better solutions out there and giving my reasoning for why. If you're happy with your iPad. GRREEEAAAAT!!! I listend to all the praise on here, got into for more than a grand and couldn't be more dissatisfied with my purchase.
 
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bartmc said:
You can spend half again less and get a new Android device in a much better form factor with a brighter screen that makes an even better cockpit device than an iPad. Spend even 100 less than that and get an AV8OR that is superior to both for a cockpit device. iPads make horrible cockpit devices, they're overpriced it's a consumer level entertainment device being forced to marginally work in the cockpit. For a great deal you could buy a $7.00 chart. If you're like Mafoo and think "Being able to fly with it is a Bonus" You'll be happy, buy it thinking you're getting a deal on an Aera replacement, you'll be sorely disappointed.
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I did buy the Nexus 7 and love it. But Garmin Pilot still falls short of FF in usability, but isn't horrible. I plan to keep both devices current and at the ready and use whichever makes the most sense for the particular cockpit I am in, with the other there as a backup.

That said, the iPad has been one of the best technology purchases I've made in the last 34 years since buying my first TRS-80 computer. It gets used for something almost every hour of the day. I do more web surfing on it than my desktop and my notebook computer gets used 10% of the time it was used pre-iPad. It's been a win-win both in and out of the cockpit and many fellow aviators agree.

In light of the features/functionality/price and amount of use it gets the Aera seems grotesquely overpriced by comparison. The Aera is a great purpose-built device, but I wouldn't consider tying that much capital and on-going expense for its marginal cockpit benefits and limited usefulness.
 
bartmc said:
Never said any of that. I know anything but glowing praise of an iPad is sacrilege but I'm just offering my view that there are better solutions out there and giving my reasoning for why. If you're happy with your iPad. GRREEEAAAAT!!! I listend to all the praise on here, got into for more than a grand and couldn't be more dissatisfied with my purchase.
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To each their own, but you're in an infinitesimally small minority of iPad users. Most of us view it as a godsend to aviation, and are happy to see an increasing number of alternatives with similar functionality coming our way.
 
bartmc said:
The Aera and all it's mounts were obviously designed to be mounted in a plane. Nobody ever asks how to mount it, because it comes with everything you need to get it right the first time. That wasn't an accident on Garmin's part.
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You've got us there. The fact that Garmin designed a cockpit navigation device for aviation AND thought to include a yoke mount is pure marketing genius, pure and simple....and all for only $2,400. That's freakin' amazing.

After popping for my $600 iPad and $100 Bad Elf I did have to do some research and spend $60 on a Ram mount from Sporty's which works great in most of the planes I fly regularly, then popped another $20 for another Ram component that i leave in the Bonanza I fly. Works great there.
 
LDJones said:
You've got us there. The fact that Garmin designed a cockpit navigation device for aviation AND thought to include a yoke mount is pure marketing genius, pure and simple....and all for only $2,400. That's freakin' amazing.

After popping for my $600 iPad and $100 Bad Elf I did have to do some research and spend $60 on a Ram mount from Sporty's which works great in most of the planes I fly regularly, then popped another $20 for another Ram component that i leave in the Bonanza I fly. Works great there.
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Pick up an Aera mount and Pick up a hacked together ram mount, you'll see the difference. RAM couldn't design a mount that works as nice because the hardware their designing for wasn't designed with Yoke mounting in mind, or even as an afterthought. The Garmin setup is a system, designed from the ground up to be aviation friendly. And yes the Area is a cockpit navigation device, the iPad is a general consumer grade entertainment device.
 
LDJones said:
To each their own, but you're in an infinitesimally small minority of iPad users. Most of us view it as a godsend to aviation, and are happy to see an increasing number of alternatives with similar functionality coming our way.
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You would be in the minority of pilots I know. I see all the cheerleading here for them. I'm going to assume people who frequent message boards are a little bit more googley eyed when it comes to technology than the typical crop of pilots I hang out with. My experience is that people either A: Have them and don't bother using them in flight or B: Have one but don't bother taking it flying with them or C: Have no desire for one. The lone exception is a king air pilot I know who uses the Jeppesen app for viewing approach plates. It's in the co-pilots seat or his wife is holding it during all other operations.
 
bartmc said:
Pick up an Aera mount and Pick up a hacked together ram mount, you'll see the difference.
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Ok, now you have done it. I have incorrectly been called an Apple fanboy, because I defend them (as I defend all tech), however there is no questions I am a RAM fanboy.

Don't mess with the RAM! :p
 
Mafoo said:
How about we just ask them? Wait, looks like AOPA did :)

http://www.smartbrief.com/news/aopa...&issueid=25314ED5-2C1D-4260-AD88-A8CD5BE543C5
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LOL 50.49% of people on voluntary INTERNET poll asking about iPads. 50.49% of the pilots i know don't even have an email address to be sent an AOPA Smart Brief daily spam mail. I'm actually shocked it's that low. I'd figure people who surf their smart brief everyday and take the time to fill out a poll about iPads would be the target demographic for using iPads. I don't typically fill out polls about things I don't use.
 
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