In for paint

Volitation said:
I like it! Serious question: Does the gear and in inside the wheel wells get the same paint? Usually How do they clean and prep the hard to reach areas?
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using some very dangerous chemicals and power spray equipment.
 
Who can tell me what sanding does to alclad aluminum?
 
Congrats on your progress thus far. I know this is exciting for you. It was for me too last October. The fun is really just beginning. It gets even more exciting when they start taping up your paint scheme and spraying the color. Last October when my plane was painted, I dropped by every few days to take progress pictures. The day I stopped in after the white was sprayed blew me away to see the transformation from the old dull looking white that I remembered transformed into the bright shinny fresh paint. It was so neat seeing every stage of the tape up for each color. I'm looking forward to seeing more progress pics as you have them.
 
n9144p said:
I don't know the total amount of paint used. Maybe when I get the bill??
They did strip the gear and wheel wells. I'm amazed at how much work that must have been but have to admit even I don't know how they managed all of it. I did see some of the detail work they had to do in other areas, and it is more than I think I could accomplish.
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I'm learning why it costs as much as it does.....
 
Tom-D said:
I can tell you now, Sand away the protective ALclad, is setting your self up for heart aches later.
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Spraying chemical stripper into landing gear wells where trunnion brackets are fastened to wingspars , lots of lap joints, crevices etc where it can be trapped is better?

I kinda like older airplanes that have

#1 Never been covered in paint stripper or sanded on. Factory paint, just fine for me.

#2 Reupholstered, you just never know how many extra screw holes were added or where they put them "because they just though it needed some"
 
bnt83 said:
Spraying chemical stripper into landing gear wells where trunnion brackets are fastened to wingspars , lots of lap joints, crevices etc where it can be trapped is better?

When it is done correctly that stuffs removed and cleaned and painted separately

I kinda like older airplanes that have

#1 Never been covered in paint stripper or sanded on. Factory paint, just fine for me.

#2 Reupholstered, you just never know how many extra screw holes were added or where they put them "because they just though it needed some"
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We all know aircraft get heavier as they age, this is why when I restore I strip the aircraft inside and out. on 34V I removed nearly 100 pounds of junk, old wires, heavy interior, old radios, several coats of paint, and all the gunk in the belly.
 
Visited today and the plane was under cover for the grey accent stripe. Supposedly the blue is already finished.
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Tom-D said:
That's because it is the poorest paint system on the market, with a isocyanide hardener. WE quit using it prior to this century.
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Yep, that stuff was outdated in the 70s. Yet folks still use it.
 
James331 said:
Some of the better methods of painting are not used due to EPA issues, not quality issues.
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Actually for what Imron was designed for, (dump trucks, and heavy equipement) it works just fine. But there's way better stuff out there, that will hold up longer, with less cure time, and require less material.
 
bluerooster said:
Actually for what Imron was designed for, (dump trucks, and heavy equipement) it works just fine. But there's way better stuff out there, that will hold up longer, with less cure time, and require less material.
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What?.....
 
The story as related to me by a DuPont rep in 1978: "Imron is top notch stuff, we formulated it for the trucking industry because there was a demand for a coating that would hold up to the rigors of 100k miles a year, and still look good. John Deere, and International Harvester jumped on the wagon about a year later, It did so well that we introduced it to the Aerospace industry, and Cessna uses it almost exclusively on their AG line." Bear in mind that this was in 1978, Imron was already about 10 years old at that time, and about 1980 it was on the way out, due to the fact that there were better products out there by that time.
There once was a time that I thought Imron was the "Cat Daddy". But That was back when Laquer, and Alkyd enamel where the two choices.
Ed Roth liked Imron due to the single stage "cheap shine", No need to sand and buff like laquer, and dried quicker than Alkyd enamel. But for the "sho-nuff" custom jobs, he would fall back to Laquer, due to quicker re-tape times (and your going to sand and buff anyway). Imron requires quite a long time to cure prior to taping for the next color, due to the tape leaving a "print". Imron does not achieve full cure, and hardness for about a week or more, (depending on atmospheric conditions) So, it must cure for at least a week prior to any sanding/buffing, waxing, etc. If you try to sand and buff it prior to full cure, it will become hazy, and stay that way untill, full cure, and buffed again. Todays material, (not todays Imron) achieves full cure in about 24 hours, or sooner, (depending on atmospheric conditions) And you can do anything you want to with it after 24 hours. Of course, If you have the wherewithall to bake an entire airplane at around 350* you can speed up the curing of the Imron, but the cost of the paint job will increase accordingly.
End result; After well over 30 years in the business, I will politely refuse if the customer insists on using Imron. After all My name is on this work, and I'll use the product that has proven it's self over the years, to do what I expect it to do. Lay slick, Shine like wet, and hold up over the years, What I use does exactly that, and I can wax it next day.
 
Imron was reformulated at least 3 times since 1978. I'm not saying the issues are fixed or not because I was not in the direct business, but the 1978 comparison might as well be to a different product. (Retired DuPont employee)
 
What's to stop any owner from disassembling their aircraft, stripping it, taking it to the local body shop and having them paint it? Reassemble, have an annual done, and go fly?
 
Tom-D said:
Who can tell me what sanding does to alclad aluminum?
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Most of the experts around this forum don't even know what alclad aluminum is let alone what sanding does to it.
 
I have seen paint jobs that do not use magna-dyne or magnadyne magnesium conversion on Bonanza magnesium or even know what it is.
 
Thanks for painting it a scheme and color that anyone should be able to stomach. That will make it easier to sell when the time comes. There are some horrid looking fresher paintjobs out there that just make me wonder.
 
MickYoumans said:
You went on and on about Imron paint saying you would politely refuse to use it in favor of your prefered product that has proven itself, but you didn't say what that product was.
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I had been using Concept for several years. but I'll be giving Desothane a go, on my own airplane, as a "test drive" to see if I want to switch over to it. So far, the other products That I've tested From PPG Aerospace have performed as advertized. I'm using my own airplane as a testbed to determine if it's cost effective to change from PPG auto to PPG Aerospace.
I had been using Alodine as a conversion coat, and decided that I would like to find something more enviromentaly friendly. The EAP-12 is some neat stuff. Just put it on, and let it dry, no rinse, no contaminated water. The stripper that I used (PR3500) is PH neutral, and works quite well.
No need for "acid etch" so another no contaminated water there either.
I'm certian that DuPont may have similar products, but they burned that bridge many years ago. (I'll not go into it here)
 
brien23 said:
I have seen paint jobs that do not use magna-dyne or magnadyne magnesium conversion on Bonanza magnesium or even know what it is.
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Mabe they use a different product? I too have never heard of Magna-Dyne.
 
bluerooster said:
Mabe they use a different product? I too have never heard of Magna-Dyne.
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What do you use on MAG alloy ? certainly not alodine?
Placing a drop of Aldine on MAG will immediately turn black. wen washed off will leave a etched spot. Magna dine (sp) thanks auto correct.will not, it simply leaves a stain like alodine does on aluminum.

OBTW... no one makes MAGNADINE any more. AS&S doesn't carry it nor does any Aviation supply store. Thanks EPA.

Think about it, you simply can't do a proper paint job on a beechcraft with out it.
http://saporitofinishing.com/processes/magnesium-aluminum
So we now use
http://saporitofinishing.com/processes/nh35
EPA compliant and doesn't work. unless it is in a very well controlled environment.
 
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Tom....not to worry. That Comanche didn't need all that fancy chemistry.
 
Tom-D said:
What do you use on MAG alloy ? certainly not alodine?
Placing a drop of Aldine on MAG will immediately turn black. wen washed off will leave a etched spot. Magna dine (sp) thanks auto correct.will not, it simply leaves a stain like alodine does on aluminum.

OBTW... no one makes MAGNADINE any more. AS&S doesn't carry it nor does any Aviation supply store. Thanks EPA.

Think about it, you simply can't do a proper paint job on a beechcraft with out it.
http://saporitofinishing.com/processes/magnesium-aluminum
So we now use
http://saporitofinishing.com/processes/nh35
EPA compliant and doesn't work. unless it is in a very well controlled environment.
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Mabe Mag Kote-19? http://www.ppgaerospace.com/Product...ag-Kote-19-Chromate-Conversion-Coating-f.aspx
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Don't miss the beautiful picture hiding behind the word "Tom"; it's a hyperlink. ^^^
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How old is that paint job?
And remember many failures in the mag skins are not found until they fail. the paint never shows the corrosion because the corrosion goes inward. T-34 tail skins are the primary example.
 
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