I'm OK, but plane is broke.

[alfadog]

Repair by parts replacement do not need a 337.

Didn't say it did. I was making the point that the regulation requiring a flight test reads essentially identical to 337-land:

"FAR 1 defines a Major repair as a repair that if
improperly done, might appreciably affect weight,
balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant
operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities
affecting airworthiness; or that is not done according
to accepted practices or cannot be done by
elementary operations. A minor repair is a repair
other than a major repair."

 

[Tom-D]

Didn't say it did. I was making the point that the regulation requiring a flight test reads essentially identical to 337-land:

"FAR 1 defines a Major repair as a repair that if
improperly done, might appreciably affect weight,
balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant
operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities
affecting airworthiness; or that is not done according
to accepted practices or cannot be done by
elementary operations. A minor repair is a repair
other than a major repair."

This is not a major repair, it may be a major PITA, but why would you bring that up?

Knowing what we do now, it is simply a replacement of the lower strut and wheel assembly and a return to service entry in the airframe log.

and a flight test is not required either, no more than a tire change does.

 

[alfadog]

This is not a major repair, it may be a major PITA, but why would you bring that up?

Knowing what we do now, it is simply a replacement of the lower strut and wheel assembly and a return to service entry in the airframe log.

and a flight test is not required either, no more than a tire change does.

You are quoting a reply I made to another post.

 

[Tom-D]

You are quoting a reply I made to another post.

I didn't think so. Did you bring up major repairs or not?

 

[alfadog]

I didn't think so. Did you bring up major repairs or not?

Read the thread.

 

[Clark1961]

It's not stuck in KRAP right now is it? Due to a prop strike/gear up?

Hmmm, it might be. It doesn't show on the flight school's list now and it did a couple weeks ago...N756TK would be the ID.

 

[Tom-D]

Read the thread.

I did, did you write this or not ?

…"FAR 1 defines a Major repair as a repair that if
improperly done, might appreciably affect weight,
balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant
operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities
affecting airworthiness; or that is not done according
to accepted practices or cannot be done by
elementary operations. A minor repair is a repair
other than a major repair."

Why bring "Major repairs" to this thread? it's nothing but a simple parts replacement repair of the airframe.

 

[denverpilot]

Agree. Got my sport in a Cub, but for some reason I love the 140's. But for some good news, the mechanic called back. They can find no evidence of firewall, engine mount, strut, or structural damage. Lucky me.

That's just... amazing.

 

[Z06_Mir]

Hmmm, it might be. It doesn't show on the flight school's list now and it did a couple weeks ago...N756TK would be the ID.

Looked at a picture, that wasn't it. This was is white/blue.

 

[Silvaire]

Look at the bolt closer... it is a classic case of shear failure....

From the sequence of photos I looked at I'd agree. On one end it looks like a clean shear and there is a gouge on the inside of one of the fork legs so the sheared end of the axle bolt moved aft and the other end is the one that looks contorted and bent with a rough break point. I'd say the bolt sheared at one end when you hit the berm and the cocked wheel and tire then broke the other end of the axle bolt when it came down on the runway.

 

[Dan Thomas]

No dents in the belly from the nosewheel bouncing around?

Dan

 

[JB1842]

No dents in the belly from the nosewheel bouncing around?

Dan

Nope. Got as lucky as I possibly could.

 

[48dodge]

From the sequence of photos I looked at I'd agree. On one end it looks like a clean shear and there is a gouge on the inside of one of the fork legs so the sheared end of the axle bolt moved aft and the other end is the one that looks contorted and bent with a rough break point. I'd say the bolt sheared at one end when you hit the berm and the cocked wheel and tire then broke the other end of the axle bolt when it came down on the runway.

Yeah I noticed that sort of smear line from the bolt hole. May have been scraped by the wheel itself but i agree it looks like the bolt did it. How many pieces were the bolt in?

 

[JB1842]

Yeah I noticed that sort of smear line from the bolt hole. May have been scraped by the wheel itself but i agree it looks like the bolt did it. How many pieces were the bolt in?

Believe it was 3. Photos on other computer.

 

[3393RP]

Possible, but 6500lbs of force are required for that, and the bolt would be noticeably stretched and thinned at the failure point.

The 6,500 lbs is expressssd in psi...the actual failure threshold would be pi X r^2 X 6,500=718 lbs.

Is this correct?

 

[Tom-D]

The 6,500 lbs is expressssd in psi...the actual failure threshold would be pi X r^2 X 6,500=718 lbs.

Is this correct?

The thru bolt is a AN6- grade 5 bolt, shear strength of 125,000 pounds per square inch. with theses figures run your math. 3/8th inch bolt is .11 ("2) 125,000X.011 = 13,750#

Hex head aircraft bolts are made of high-strength type 4037 or 8740 alloy steel (type 8740 is most commonly used). The bolts are centerless ground and threaded after heat treatment. Minimum tensile strength 125,000 PSI. Cadmium plated per specification QQ-P-416A, Type II, Class 3. Available with shank drilled for cotter pin or undrilled for stop nut application, and with or without drilled head for safety wire. Specify bolts to have undrilled shank by adding letter "A" after the dash number. For bolts with drilled head add letter "H" after the AN number. See illustrated examples. The length of AN aircraft bolts is measured from under the head to the end of the shank. The "grip" is the unthreaded portion of the shank. See table for conversion of length and/or grip to proper AN callout.

 

[Skylane81E]

The 6,500 lbs is expressssd in psi...the actual failure threshold would be pi X r^2 X 6,500=718 lbs.

Is this correct?

Bolt is rather stronger than that

 

[3393RP]

I assumed I was incorrect, it didn't pass the smell test. I always enjoy hearing the knowledge you A&Ps share, thanks so much.

 

[Silvaire]

I think it's an AN5 bolt but regardless of the shear force required I'm pretty sure you achieved it.

 

[Tom-D]

I think it's an AN5 bolt but regardless of the shear force required I'm pretty sure you achieved it.

And then some.

 

[Tom-D]

I think it's an AN5 bolt but regardless of the shear force required I'm pretty sure you achieved it.

Depending upon model some have a steel rod, threaded and drilled for two castle nuts, others have a bolt.

But what I wonder about is, the cups and axle tube carry the load why are they unharmed?

 

[JB1842]

I think it's an AN5 bolt but regardless of the shear force required I'm pretty sure you achieved it.

Go big or go home.

 

[SteveR]

Glad it ended up OK for you, and I'm sure you'll never do that again.

Bet the instructor isn't happy.

Doesn't look like a big deal to fix if no metal was bent.

You don't fly 777s for a living do you?

Too soon! Too soon!

 

[48dodge]

Believe it was 3. Photos on other computer.

3 would point to shear then

 

[Silvaire]

Depending upon model some have a steel rod, threaded and drilled for two castle nuts, others have a bolt.

But what I wonder about is, the cups and axle tube carry the load why are they unharmed?

The two parts manuals I have are for 63-69 and 70-77. The later models have the threaded stud with castle nuts and only the heavy duty gear on the older models had the outer cups but it's still hard to envision how the axle tube and inner spacers could have escaped damage unless both ends of the bolt sheared simultaneously and the whole wheel and axle assembly popped straight out.

I guess it's possible, looking at the wheel it took a pretty big hit for sure.

 

[Tom-D]

The two parts manuals I have are for 63-69 and 70-77. The later models have the threaded stud with castle nuts and only the heavy duty gear on the older models had the outer cups but it's still hard to envision how the axle tube and inner spacers could have escaped damage unless both ends of the bolt sheared simultaneously and the whole wheel and axle assembly popped straight out.

I guess it's possible, looking at the wheel it took a pretty big hit for sure.

As you can see by the PDF file attached the wheel and bearings ride on an axle tube, spaced to the center by two spacers, and the cups are inserted thru the strut, and the bolt only stops the forks from spreading, the fore and aft movement loads are taken by the two cups and the fork.

In my way of thinking, the impact should have failed the fork lower end openings and allowed the wheel/axle assembly to exit the fork in one piece.

I have to believe that the wheel was not centered because the strut was partly retracted and off the centering device built into the strut, which allowed a side load to be placed upon the wheel, forcing the forks apart breaking the bolt. by a combined shear and tension load.

 

[bnt83]

As you can see by the PDF file attached the wheel and bearings ride on an axle tube, spaced to the center by two spacers, and the cups are inserted thru the strut, and the bolt only stops the forks from spreading, the fore and aft movement loads are taken by the two cups and the fork.

In my way of thinking, the impact should have failed the fork lower end openings and allowed the wheel/axle assembly to exit the fork in one piece.

I have to believe that the wheel was not centered because the strut was partly retracted and off the centering device built into the strut, which allowed a side load to be placed upon the wheel, forcing the forks apart breaking the bolt. by a combined shear and tension load.

Tom, there are two different forks, the one you describe is NOT the one the op has.

 

[bnt83]

OP's fork is like this:

 

[Tom-D]

Tom, there are two different forks, the one you describe is NOT the one the op has.

that explains the "no cups" his serial number must be prior to 15069308. the pictures he sent me did not show that.

It's figure 16 A&B in the 150 IPC.

the quick look method of telling is to note which way the scissors point, forward for late model, rearward for early.

Still an amazing failure.

 

[Tom-D]

OP's fork is like this:

Got it.

 

[bnt83]

that explains the "no cups" his serial number must be prior to 15069308. the pictures he sent me did not show that.

It's figure 16 A&B in the 150 IPC.

the quick look method of telling is to note which way the scissors point, forward for late model, rearward for early.

Still an amazing failure.

I spotted it earlier in this thread. Indeed still amazing.

I'm unaware of scissor location but I know on this fork they point aft. I thought only the HD has them forward. IDK if the cups have anything correlation with scissors.

 

[Silvaire]

From my 63-69 manual dated JAN 1970 - the first file is the standard gear, torque link aft, no outer cups and the second is the heavy duty gear, torque link forward and outer cups.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

My instructor was talking to me the entire time. Even he was surprised we hit short.

Hmmm. Black hole approach, maybe? Have you learned about those yet? Surprised nobody's mentioned the possibility yet in a 10-page threat.

Sorry, but I'd not be flying that thing without a very detailed examination of the firewall and engine mount, and I might think strongly about an engine rebuild. How much time on the engine? If it is a high time engine it might be the time.

What on earth does what happened have to do with the engine?

Go big or go home.

You play Sheepshead, don't you?

 

[JB1842]

Hmmm. Black hole approach, maybe? Have you learned about those yet? Surprised nobody's mentioned the possibility yet in a 10-page threat.



What on earth does what happened have to do with the engine?



You play Sheepshead, don't you?

We went over blackholes flying to OSH on the night cross country, and over some of the small lakes from Hartford to West Bend. I've never heard of Sheepshead. Funny thing is my mechanic says we landed short, as did the mechanic at West Bend. But my main instructor, and the FAA inspector aren't so sure. The CFI I was with didn't believe we landed short, too. So who knows what happened. But the wheel damage looks like it hit something.

 

[N801BH]

We went over blackholes flying to OSH on the night cross country, and over some of the small lakes from Hartford to West Bend. I've never heard of Sheepshead. Funny thing is my mechanic says we landed short, as did the mechanic at West Bend. But my main instructor, and the FAA inspector aren't so sure. The CFI I was with didn't believe we landed short, too. So who knows what happened. But the wheel damage looks like it hit something.

Still waiting so see the pics of the scrapes and gouges on the runway the front fork left........

This is NOT rocket science...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

We went over blackholes flying to OSH on the night cross country, and over some of the small lakes from Hartford to West Bend.

Black Hole approach is different than flying over dark areas. It's the curved approach path that you'll naturally make if you're flying your final approach over a dark area if you're trying to keep the runway sight picture the same.

I've never heard of Sheepshead.

Sheepshead is a card game - A really weird, twisted card game. It's pretty much played only by those who are from Wisconsin, have family from Wisconsin, etc. though it was invented in Germany. It's also the place that I've most frequently heard the phrase "go big or go home" because that strategy tends to increase your chances of winning.

Funny thing is my mechanic says we landed short, as did the mechanic at West Bend. But my main instructor, and the FAA inspector aren't so sure. The CFI I was with didn't believe we landed short, too. So who knows what happened. But the wheel damage looks like it hit something.

PM me your phone number, maybe we can fly up there sometime and take a look... Which runway were you landing on?

 

[JB1842]

Still waiting so see the pics of the scrapes and gouges on the runway the front fork left........

This is NOT rocket science...

I didn't get any. When I was there the next morning, the runway was in use.

 

[JB1842]

Black Hole approach is different than flying over dark areas. It's the curved approach path that you'll naturally make if you're flying your final approach over a dark area if you're trying to keep the runway sight picture the same.



Sheepshead is a card game - A really weird, twisted card game. It's pretty much played only by those who are from Wisconsin, have family from Wisconsin, etc. though it was invented in Germany. It's also the place that I've most frequently heard the phrase "go big or go home" because that strategy tends to increase your chances of winning.



PM me your phone number, maybe we can fly up there sometime and take a look... Which runway were you landing on?

We did not go over a black hole approach. I looked up sheepshead, and have played a bastardized version of it. We were using runway 13. The part should be in tomorrow, so I'll be out there to drop it off. I'll see if I can run out there again and look. I just moved to Port Washington, and West Bend is much closer than Hartford.

 

[Henning]

The thru bolt is a AN6- grade 5 bolt, shear strength of 125,000 pounds per square inch. with theses figures run your math. 3/8th inch bolt is .11 ("2) 125,000X.011 = 13,750#

Hex head aircraft bolts are made of high-strength type 4037 or 8740 alloy steel (type 8740 is most commonly used). The bolts are centerless ground and threaded after heat treatment. Minimum tensile strength 125,000 PSI. Cadmium plated per specification QQ-P-416A, Type II, Class 3. Available with shank drilled for cotter pin or undrilled for stop nut application, and with or without drilled head for safety wire. Specify bolts to have undrilled shank by adding letter "A" after the dash number. For bolts with drilled head add letter "H" after the AN number. See illustrated examples. The length of AN aircraft bolts is measured from under the head to the end of the shank. The "grip" is the unthreaded portion of the shank. See table for conversion of length and/or grip to proper AN callout.

You're assuming it has the correct part installed... Not always a safe assumption.

 

[Silvaire]

...Funny thing is my mechanic says we landed short, as did the mechanic at West Bend. But my main instructor, and the FAA inspector aren't so sure. The CFI I was with didn't believe we landed short, too. So who knows what happened. But the wheel damage looks like it hit something.

"Looks like"? You sure as heck didn't get this running over a paint stripe.