IFR Simulator that simulates GTN 650?

Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by WDD, Feb 11, 2021.

  1. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    So, having trouble figuring out what does what.

    Would be great if I could have a simulator that has a GPS image similar to / just like a GTN 650 in addition to the standard six pack to help with my scanning.

    Would something like MS Flight Simulator work?

    CFII is stressing rudder work. Would any set of Sporty's rudder controls in addition to a Sporty's joystick work as well? I assume you just plug them into your home computer via UCB?
     
  2. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    There is an add-on for X-Plane 11 that connects the GTN trainer with the flight simulator. It works in Windows only (not the Mac or Linux versions), and I think it still runs the GTN trainer in a separate window.

    As far as practicing your scan goes, it's the CDI, not the GPS, that should be in your main scan in a round-gauge panel (just an occasional glance at the GPS unit to make sure it's in GPS rather than VLOC mode, and that it's not indicating an error), and that will be same for any GPS model. I find that I'm fine with the built-in GNS 430W in X-Plane, even though I have a GTN 650 in my real plane.

    For practicing the GTN buttonology, OTOH (which is not part of practicing my scan), I just use the Garmin PC trainer standalone.
     
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  3. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    The rudder pedals for most low end home sims are not worth the money, since they don't have realistic feedback. At least, that was the state of things ~5 years ago.
     
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  4. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think you are talking about the Reality XP add-on for x-plane. It can be set to pop up on your x plane screen like many other add-ons (and some of the built ins)

    I agree completely with you on the downloadable trainer from Garmin. I see many more pilots who don't know how to use the unit competently in not uncommon IFR situations than those who have trouble incorporating it into their scan.
     
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  5. MICHAEL MAHN

    MICHAEL MAHN Filing Flight Plan

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    I use, as others have mentioned, https://reality-xp.com/. The biggest limitation for me is it only runs on Windows. I also run Duet Display (https://www.duetdisplay.com/). That way, I can attache my Android tablet to the PC via a USB cable, drag the GTN window to the tablet, and then interact with the simulator via touches making it more like the real deal.
     
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  6. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    Ditto for yokes. Without control-force simulation (e.g. they become stiffer at higher speeds, wobbly near the stall) the consumer yokes and rudder pedals are just expensive toys. I do all my practice flying (IFR approaches, etc) with a simple Logitech Gamepad like this one, and it works just as well.
    773566.jpg
     
  7. Hang 4

    Hang 4 Cleared for Takeoff

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    GTN Trainer on Ipad works great for learning GTN buttonology.
     
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  8. Jim K

    Jim K Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    The other limitation of the gtn for xplane is that it uses the database from the garmin simulator which is a year or two old. Probably not even noticeable for the most part, but you might find some procedures that don't match your charts.

    I haven't installed it, but from reading about it, it seems like a bit of a hassle as well. I just use the built in 430, which is excellent. If you're proficient with a 430, the gtn just makes everything easier.

    Rudder pedals in my experience are not worth the money. I do like a yoke just because I'm so used to it. I don't particularly like the practice of using rudder to make small corrections anyway. A small bank makes more sense to me, but ymmv. If you're going to buy a yoke, get the honeycomb alpha. It is lightyears better than anything else under $1000.
     
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  9. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Interesting. CFII had me using the Track and Heading in the 650 unit vs the HSI. Also using the CDI type display in the GTN. I had never done that. I found I was used to adjusting course from the round HSI gauge, but was just popping left and right when I tried to interpret the numerical trak and heading information from the GTN. That's what I need to practice.

    Then again - I did my first LVP approach last night - and found the runway in front of me at DA.
     
  10. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Agree- I'm all over that on my I pad.
     
  11. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Funny - my CFII is 100% into using the rudder for small corrections. He even had me do steep turns (no foggles) just using the rudder and trim tab - no yoke input.
     
  12. MICHAEL MAHN

    MICHAEL MAHN Filing Flight Plan

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    My CFII too. Any course changes <5 degrees he wanted made with rudders. He had me fly an yoke free approach once...only power and rudder inputs...was pretty darned hard.
     
  13. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    Digital track and heading on the GPS screen are useful extra info, but not primary. As far as I know, the course-deviation on the 650 Default Nav screen is advisory only -- that's not what you follow during an approach (that's why we need to install an external CDI). Perhaps your instructor wanted to show you that you could use it in an emergency, if your main CDI or primary nav glass display were U/S?

    That's always a great feeling, especially when you're in actual IMC and the fog/rain/etc opens like a curtain on the runway right in front of you.
     
  14. mirage00

    mirage00 Pattern Altitude

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  15. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Wow $500 for the Honeywell yoke and throttle combination.
     
  16. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It just a difference in technique. So long as it works, it's not wrong,
     
  17. Jim K

    Jim K Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    My cfii was agnostic... he suggested trying it, which I did, but i didn't see the point. Perhaps it's of more value of you're overcorrecting, but i was more comfortable flying the plane the way I normally do. We discussed it, and he agreed that he prefers just making corrections with the yoke, but likes to introduce the theory as some people do better that way. It seems like just using the rudder is too slow to actually change heading.

    It's definitely worthwhile to understand you can fly the plane without using the ailerons, i was taught that in private training, and it's useful if you're busy eating or texting and don't have an autopilot :D
     
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  18. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Line Up and Wait

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  19. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    Yes, I agree — I think recommending the rudder is a trick to keep students from over-correcting on an approach, as we all did at the start. Once you get the feel for making small corrections, the yoke is more efficient (and less likely to cost your passengers their lunch).

    That said, I also will admit to making small corrections with the rudder in cruise while my hands were busy with a sandwich. :)
     
  20. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It gets funny when you get into technique questions. My CFII taught me rudder turns on the FAC. Of course, as a fledging instrument pilot, I took it as gospel. Some years later in a discussion with a DPE, I asked him about it and he said he just did coordinated turns. I made the switch...
    ...the most interesting part of which was, I overcorrected less when I did them coordinated. Go figure :D
     
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  21. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    I use X Plane 11 and Reality XP add on software, it works pretty good. I have been curious about buying a generic touchscreen monitor to run that radio on.

    Also using X-Aviation / AFM Simulation Garmin G5, they leave a lot to be desired as far as accuracy to the real thing.

    upload_2021-2-12_10-28-11.png
     
  22. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    FTFY. No point limiting oneself. Besides, with a bit of practice you can use your knees to maintain aileron input. :D

    That was my experience also. :thumbsup:
     
  23. labbadabba

    labbadabba Pattern Altitude

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    have you figured out how to update the DB?
     
  24. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Line Up and Wait

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    I was able to get it up to about a 2017 database if I remember right. Don't have everything setup at the moment to check. There was a thread on here about updating it.

    *ETA: That's using the RealityXP software. If you run the RealSimGear hardware and use the xplane gns you don't have the database issue
     
  25. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If it's using the GNS trainer from Garmin, the same way as you update that. It's the same database you put in your airplane. Just replace the C:\Program Files (x86)\Garmin\GNS400W-500W Trainer\Trainer\worldwide.bin on your PC with a new one.

    (No, it doesn't work with the GTN)
     
  26. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    Wolfgang Langweische strongly agreed. Doing turns with rudder only was something he was already fighting back in the 1940s — the dominant theme throughout all of Stick and Rudder was to make every turn coordinated, no matter what. But old flying habits get passed on generation to generation, and die hard.
     
  27. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    I did actually manage to do that with the GTN trainer once -- it was fussy, but I got it working (that was when the trainer's database didn't have the new approaches for my airport yet). I don't remember what the tricks were, but you could probably Google it.
     
  28. Travis Atchley

    Travis Atchley Filing Flight Plan

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    I would be careful with spending money on the rudder pedals to help with real flying. They work great for standard flying, but I wanted to do a forward slip on xplane and it started to do some aerobatics on me. :eek:
     
  29. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    In X-Plane you can adjust the sensitivity of any controller (including rudder pedals). With a bit of experimentation, you can set them up so that they don't put you into a snap roll. :) But agreed, they don't really bring that much value for the money and fuss (ditto for yokes).
     
  30. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I tried. I've seen a couple of suggestions but none worked. :(
     
  31. Deelee

    Deelee Cleared for Takeoff

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    I have been considering buying the the RealityXP GTN750 or 650 (which I have been told are based on the Garmin 750/650 training apps), but I don't want to get stuck with outdated nav data. I have a monthly nav data subscription for my 430w, but can't find any info on how to use the data from that subscription to update the GTN750 nav data.... so if you can offer any advice or info on how you got it to work I would be grateful for help.

    Would love to know how to even get the data from my real-world subscription out so I can update the nav data in my Garmin 430 training app. Getting it to update the GTN750 trainer nav data would be icing on the cake.
     
  32. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    If Garmin would sell database updates for their training apps, I bet there would be a market for them.
     
  33. Deelee

    Deelee Cleared for Takeoff

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    I would pay a small amount for that. I am not buying that realityXP product until I can be sure I can at least update the USA nav data. Otherwise it is useless... you'd think they would sell the updates or even better let me use my current real 430 nav data subscription somehow.... heck it might turn me into an actual 750 customer...
     
  34. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    For a single database update for a training app, I would be happy to pay what a single update to a GPS would cost; maybe even a bit more.
     
  35. Jim K

    Jim K Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    I think the problem is that the trainer uses real navdata, so releasing current data for it would open up a back door. I don't understand why it couldn't be included with an existing garmin date subscription, though.

    It seems to me it would be great marketing to have realistic avionics in the flight sims. I'm shocked they allowed their branding on the avionics in msfs without making sure they actually work correctly. I'm sure they don't want to get into the business of supporting someone else's software.
     
  36. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    I doubt it would be possible to update the GTN trainer from a GNC subscription, unfortunately. I updated the trainer from a GTN subscription.
     
  37. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    It's a shame, because you can buy a data subscription from Navigraph to get current data into the built-in X-Plane GPSs.
     
  38. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you only want US data for the built-in X-Plane units, it's free from the FAA.
     
  39. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    How do you install that?
     
  40. Deelee

    Deelee Cleared for Takeoff

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    Ya. I do have that. Was worth it practicing approaches prior to IR checkride when I couldn't fly. Was able to use xplane and navigraph data with the 430w to keep sharp between actual flights.

    I think I'm gonna pass on spending the $25 on the reality xp plugin then. If I can't get updated data, what's the point?
     
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