"If I said 'VFR not recommended,' would you want to hear the rest of the brief?"

L

Lindberg

Final Approach
Joined
Sep 25, 2013
Messages
6,997
Location
North Texas
Display Name
Display name:
Lindberg
Well yeah. If I gave up that easily, I probably wouldn't have called. :rolleyes: She wasn't necessarily wrong, but the brief confirmed that a local flight, or the planned flight at a different time, would be fine.
 
I suppose it's not an unreasonable question, as it might save the briefer a lot of time which could be better spent briefing someone who really would want to hear the full briefing.
 
Sometimes that line is just a throw-away. Learned that with my first solo XC flight actually.

Was flying from TYS-CSV (52nm), an area I was quite familiar with. With the instructor, we called for the brief...ended with "VFR not recommended due to mountain obscuration"

So, hang up, say to my CFI "Um, the mountains are the complete opposite direction to where I'm going." Yep, but they're in the forecast area, so the LockMart briefer was required to put it on tape to CYA. Had a great flight. There were indeed a lot of clouds over the Smokies, looked like some orthographic lifting at work, but nowhere near any impact of my flight.
 
In my experience, the handful of times I've ever called them, they've said "VFR not recommended" when it's been CAVU.

I've found briefers ONLY good for two things: 1) Covering their asses and 2) Wasting my time.

Yes, I'll go on the record and say it: They're worthless IMHO.
 
Once I called FSS for a briefing and was told VFR wasn't recommended. I could see 200 miles from my window. We Alaskans have waether cams now so seeing the far sides of passes is easy. I haven't called for a briefing in years. When out of cell data range I will call FSS on my sat phone and ask them to look at the weathercams for me. They've been helpful with that.
 
Stewartb said:
Once I called FSS for a briefing and was told VFR wasn't recommended. I could see 200 miles from my window. We Alaskans have waether cams now so seeing the far sides of passes is easy. I haven't called for a briefing in years. When out of cell data range I will call FSS on my sat phone and ask them to look at the weathercams for me. They've been helpful with that.
Click to expand...

mountain obscuration.......................


I got that 99% of the time when calling FSS here in Jackson Hole....

I live about 2 miles from the Tetons.... with peaks up at 13,750'... As I am on the phone, the briefer says " mountain obscuration ".... I just laugh when I look out my window and see clear and unlimited for hundreds of miles....
 

Attachments

  • 2012 Xmas. 051.jpg
    2012 Xmas. 051.jpg
    5.7 MB · Views: 81
  • 700 Ponderosa Dr 010.jpg
    700 Ponderosa Dr 010.jpg
    5.5 MB · Views: 67
  • 700 Ponderosa Dr 001.jpg
    700 Ponderosa Dr 001.jpg
    4.8 MB · Views: 54
  • 2012 Xmas. 050.jpg
    2012 Xmas. 050.jpg
    5.7 MB · Views: 48
Last edited:
Stewartb said:
Once I called FSS for a briefing and was told VFR wasn't recommended. I could see 200 miles from my window. We Alaskans have waether cams now so seeing the far sides of passes is easy. I haven't called for a briefing in years. When out of cell data range I will call FSS on my sat phone and ask them to look at the weathercams for me. They've been helpful with that.
Click to expand...

:yes:

I just brief online, also wunderground.com has a great collection of webcams, I type in a airport ID, scroll to webcams, good stuff.

Only time I've done a phone brief, aside from showing students, was the few times I didn't have internet but did have a phone line.
 
The weather was VFR at very low altitudes, which was fine with me, since I was planning a 12nm flight in a cub. What I really called for was an opinion on when and where the next line would be coming through and any NOTAMS because I knew there were possibly aerobatics at my destination.

I've heard "VFR not recommended" plenty of times and was expecting it today. But I got a chuckle out of her question.
 
I would always take the full briefing,the least little bit of weather ,they will tell you VFR is not recommended. The govt is going to cover their butts.
 
Lindberg said:
Well yeah. If I gave up that easily, I probably wouldn't have called. :rolleyes: She wasn't necessarily wrong, but the brief confirmed that a local flight, or the planned flight at a different time, would be fine.
Click to expand...

I can't count the number of times I've had no problem whatsoever following "VFR Not Recommended" briefings. In fact, I'd probably never have made it to Oshkosh even once, and if I did, I'd have never made it home.

One time though, they did know more than I did. A very cold front had passed through on Friday, but Saturday was clear and a gazillion, with temps at 10F. I called for a briefing and was told "Not recommended" due to ground fog. Whaa? Not a wisp in sight, so we departed (Atlanta - Martinsburgh WV). We were over Ashville, NC when we saw the first indications of ground fog, and 10 minutes later, the entire world East of the Appalachians was fogged in all the way to Savannah. To the west of the mountains, it was clear VFR, which we could see 10-20 miles to our West.

The fog dissipated after an hour or two, and our flight was otherwise uneventful.

But if we'd been on a local flight with only an hour's gas? Yikes.
 
I've never heard "VFR not recommended". The day I had my VFR-into-IMC encounter, what I heard was "Ceilings are 3500 and forecast to improve. You shouldn't have any trouble."

This was in the early days of Lockmart. I never trusted anything their briefers told me after that.
 
RotorAndWing said:
But yet, if there is any mention of doing away with the FSS the howls and screams will begin...............:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I like FSS and use it regularly. Criticizing them wasn't my point in starting the thread, just a little levity. Anyone looking outside could see that a briefer was not going to recommend VFR flight. And I've heard it before. But usually they say something like "Severe turbulence reported... SIGMET... blah blah blah. VFR not recommended. Would you like me to continue?" Today's phraseology just surprised me. It was more like something I'd expect to hear from my wife. Like, "If I say no, are you going to go anyway?"
 
RotorAndWing said:
But yet, if there is any mention of doing away with the FSS the howls and screams will begin...............:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I can get better information from online sources. But I want a Federal coat of CYA for pop-up TFR's and things like that.
 
Lindberg said:
I like FSS and use it regularly. Criticizing them wasn't my point in starting the thread, just a little levity. Anyone looking outside could see that a briefer was not going to recommend VFR flight. And I've heard it before. But usually they say something like "Severe turbulence reported... SIGMET... blah blah blah. VFR not recommended. Would you like me to continue?" Today's phraseology just surprised me. It was more like something I'd expect to hear from my wife. Like, "If I say no, are you going to go anyway?"
Click to expand...

"VFR not recommended" has been used for over the past 40 years, nothing new there.
 
RotorAndWing said:
"VFR not recommended" has been used for over the past 40 years, nothing new there.
Click to expand...

What about "If I said 'VFR not recommended,' would you want to hear the rest of the brief?" I've never heard that before, but maybe it's equally common. :confused:
 
In my experience the "VFR not recommended" comment comes at the end of the briefing.
 
I never hear "VFR not recommended" even though I often call FSS.

That's because I file IFR If I'm flying far enough that I need weather info.
 
When I learned to fly the only briefing available was from the FSS. It was special to be at a field that had an FSS to walk into and get a face to face brief.
Guess I'm showing my age.
 
FSS has one purpose nowadays: VIP TFRs.

We call them for any flight of more than 15 miles from home, just so we are recorded as asking "Where is Obama today?" This is a habit we acquired living in Iowa, where the politicians incessantly did their dog & pony shows like clockwork every four years.

Otherwise, FSS weather observations are no better, and often worse, than our own.
 
Kritchlow said:
When I learned to fly the only briefing available was from the FSS. It was special to be at a field that had an FSS to walk into and get a face to face brief.
Guess I'm showing my age.
Click to expand...

I miss those days.......:sad::sad:,,

You walk in, the FSS specialist meets you at the counter, the teletype machine clicking in the background......

I wanna be young again..:redface:
 
Kritchlow said:
When I learned to fly the only briefing available was from the FSS. It was special to be at a field that had an FSS to walk into and get a face to face brief.
Guess I'm showing my age.
Click to expand...

I look back at where we've come in the last 20 years, and it's hard to believe.

On-board weather conditions for every airport? On-board radar, depicted on 10" screens? Traffic, showing direction of flight, distance, and N-numbers?

These were all science fiction. Star Trek stuff. We dreamed about having something -- anything -- that would tell us which way to turn as we approached bad weather, and now we've got it!

Funny how the easier and safer we've made personal flying, the fewer people actually fly. :confused:
 
Jay Honeck said:
I look back at where we've come in the last 20 years, and it's hard to believe.

On-board weather conditions for every airport? On-board radar, depicted on 10" screens? Traffic, showing direction of flight, distance, and N-numbers?

These were all science fiction. Star Trek stuff. We dreamed about having something -- anything -- that would tell us which way to turn as we approached bad weather, and now we've got it!

Funny how the easier and safer we've made personal flying, the fewer people actually fly. :confused:
Click to expand...

That is because aviation is powered by cubic dollars and the economy has been reshuffled to eliminate the upcoming pilots at the entry level..:rolleyes2:
 
Why still call ?.
U can get all in ur cell phone or iPad and don't have to deal w them, I just love to call them to close flight plans, just because I can be and ******* like their are 99% of the time.
 
Stewartb said:
In my experience the "VFR not recommended" comment comes at the end of the briefing.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it depends on the region. I was in San Diego and had made the call after breakfast for a briefing on flight that was to begin after lunch. All week long, it was the typical 11am California coastal pattern of OVC010-to-clear-and-a-million-in-the-blink-of-an-eye and the TAFs that day were no different. The briefer started off with the current conditions and instantly out came the "VNR". After going through the rest of the briefing including forecast conditions of clear-and-a-million, no NOTAMs and nothing adverse it was simply "looks good, have a nice flight".

BTW I made the call because WiFi was spotty and I couldn't get better than 2G coverage on the cell network at the place where I was staying.
 
ahkahn said:
In my experience, the handful of times I've ever called them, they've said "VFR not recommended" when it's been CAVU.

I've found briefers ONLY good for two things: 1) Covering their asses and 2) Wasting my time.

Yes, I'll go on the record and say it: They're worthless IMHO.
Click to expand...

+1. :yes:


Who calls weather breifers for VFR flight besides students?
 
On the few times I have to call FSS on the phone I have a hard time remembering that the number is not 1-800-VFR-NOT-RECOMMENDED.
 
N801BH said:
mountain obscuration.......................


I got that 99% of the time when calling FSS here in Jackson Hole....

I live about 2 miles from the Tetons.... with peaks up at 13,750'... As I am on the phone, the briefer says " mountain obscuration ".... I just laugh when I look out my window and see clear and unlimited for hundreds of miles....
Click to expand...


Boy, what a crappy view. :D
 
Geico266 said:
+1. :yes:





Who calls weather breifers for VFR flight besides students?
Click to expand...


My DPE for my instrument checkride suggested (after my ride) that I call for a brief for every flight, IFR or VFR, in order to have a record primarily for TFRs.

I haven't really done that, though. I just rely on ForeFlight, for what it's worth.
 
I sure don't get all the hate for Flight Service and the briefers. When I was a private pilot, I always checked the weather myself and then called to get a briefing from a professional just to make sure I wasn't missing something. I've always had nothing but very helpful calls. I've continued using them through all stages of my flying. I currently work for a part 135 carrier and there was some weather over Arkansas that I was concerned about. My dispatcher told me it would be fine, but I wasn't so sure. So I called FSS and got a briefing and found it much more reassuring to talk to the briefer.

Again, I can't figure out why everybody thinks they're useless... :confused:
 
Which (if any besides DUATS) online weather services keep a record that you checked the weather?

Normally, I watch for trends if I'm going on a long XC a few days before... Brief myself the morning of, for the short ones, and call FSS for TFRs, NOTAMs and any changes just before takeoff...
 
FlySince9 said:
Which (if any besides DUATS) online weather services keep a record that you checked the weather?

Normally, I watch for trends if I'm going on a long XC a few days before... Brief myself the morning of, for the short ones, and call FSS for TFRs, NOTAMs and any changes just before takeoff...
Click to expand...

Personally, I use the Lockheed Martin weather site. https://www.1800wxbrief.com/Website/ I think the format of the online brief is easy to follow and I like the high res graphics. Plus, it's an official briefing source.
 
Stewartb said:
In my experience the "VFR not recommended" comment comes at the end of the briefing.
Click to expand...

I've heard it at the beginning, the end, and all points in between...sometimes several points in between. Occasionally it was all I could get out of a briefer (the old Wichita and St. Louis FSS's seemed to be some of the worst for that.) After one lack of briefing instance with Princeton (normally quite good), I had a conversation with a supervisor who pulled the tapes, called me back, and started off with, "You've had this happen before. I can tell because you used all the right phraseology to extract weather information from him."

Back when briefers had some flight experience it didn't seem so bad, but briefers now seem to think that launching a light single IFR into icing or embedded thunderstorms is far safer than VFR avoidance.

Not my intent to bash FSS either...I still get live briefings while I look at online data. But in certain circumstances, my knowledge of local conditions, trends, and what I can or can't safely do with a particular airplane is going to tilt things in favor of the online data rather than the briefer's opinion.
 
I'd agree, these days it's a waste to call AFSS outside of students. We had to call in the Army but I always thought that was a waste as well. I also have been given "VFR flight not recommended" and still went.

There was a time, not too long ago, before the "A" in FSS existed when briefers were all that we as pilots had. There were none of these fancy online tools that we have today. A time when it paid to adhere to the advice of the briefer. My Dad briefed this pilot below but the pilot chose not to listen:
 

Attachments

  • LAX82FA045 _Brief.pdf
    74.4 KB · Views: 35
Velocity173 said:
There was a time, not too long ago, before the "A" in FSS existed when briefers were all that we as pilots had. There were none of these fancy online tools that we have today. A time when it paid to adhere to the advice of the briefer.
Click to expand...

The same problems existed before the "A" came along.
 
ahkahn said:
In my experience, the handful of times I've ever called them, they've said "VFR not recommended" when it's been CAVU.

I've found briefers ONLY good for two things: 1) Covering their asses and 2) Wasting my time.

Yes, I'll go on the record and say it: They're worthless IMHO.
Click to expand...

This makes no sense to me. Main reason I call FSS is to cover my butt, so that if magic fog comes in and I'm stuck above it and ATC has to talk me down, I can say...here's my call with my tail etc. If you think the FAA is going to look as kindly at your I looked at DUATs...I think you're nuts, they'll say something about how you should have calculated out the temp/dew point spread and failed to take into account cooling weather conditions that, and "hey here's your knowledge test and you knew about this or that condition."

In other words the main reason anyone calls FSS is to cover their own butt, like the time called FSS and no TFR was present but then....pop firefighting TFR, guess what was a very very good feeling.... Having called FSS. Don't get me wrong flight following was with us too, so there was multiple layers... But in flying it's always best to measure twice cut once... Since there's no guarantee you get to cut twice.

So if "all" FSS does is cover butts. Don't begrudge them that... That's their job!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top