I told the wife that I would never get a motorcycle...

Half Fast said:
I thought it was because they hired Lucas....
Click to expand...

49985651526_be817c5e30_o.jpg
 
rtk11 said:
My buddy who has a R1200GS that clicked over 100,000 miles has gone through a rear drive as well. To your point, it appears that it's a common problem.
Click to expand...
How many chains, sprockets + labor would 100k on a conventional drive require ?
 
My Roadliner is belt drive. But I "think" the belt lasts 100,000, if lucky, and don't pick up a pebble. All these fit..........

* Yamaha part: 1D7-46241-00-00 $530
* Dayco Panther: DS-197002 $150 - $190
* Harley Davidson: 40001-85 $207
 
Bill Jennings said:
LOL!

Tomato, tahmahtoe. It's nice not to have to adjust and lube a chain every 500mi. I've had plenty of both, but at this stage of my riding career futzing with chains is something I can do without.
Click to expand...

Have they ever come out with a chain lube that didn't sling off, at least some, onto your wheels and clothes? I'd much prefer a shaft drive, they aren't that much more complicated, they only look more intimidating. Still DIY maintenance and repair if you get past the intimidation of them. I just put a new rear wheel and bearings in a pw50 for my son, my old shadow 1100 was shaft drive.

They are shafts, gears, bearings and seals. I'm certain most of you can figure them out if you tried. The chain and sprocket setup also has bearings between the axle and wheel, brakes are there on both. There is very little difference between the two when you actually look at them, except a shaft is more reliable and will last much longer, that's facts.
 
Last edited:
weilke said:
How many chains, sprockets + labor would 100k on a conventional drive require ?
Click to expand...
Chains last about 15K miles, maybe a little more. But replacing them is the work of minutes. Sprockets a bit more, but not much. The hardest part of having a chain drive bike is constantly lubricating the thing. I think belts aren't even that bad to change out if they go bad, and most don't. Fixing a shaft drive runs into dollars.

Honda shaft drives don't seem to break. I've had several shaft drive Hondas, including my 30 year-old Goldwing, and I never lost so much as a drop of oil. The only shaft drive I ever heard of busting was also a refugee from the 80s and was being driven over boulders on a dirt track at the time.

In fairness to BMW, I think a lot of the busted shafts come off ADV bikes ridden on serious dirt. I don't really think those things were meant to do a lot of the stuff they do.
 
Fiveslide said:
Have they ever come out with a chain lube that didn't sling off, at least some, onto your wheels and clothes?
Click to expand...

Modern o-ring chains don’t really need lubrication per sé. The o-rings keep the pins appropriately greased, and many thinner oils will seep past the o-rings and compromise the grease.

SOP on those chains is to clean them - I use silicone lube lightly sprayed on a rag - and then apply a chain wax, not for lubrication but for corrosion resistance.

My current stable has 2 driveshafts, one chain, and one belt. Horses for courses, they all get the job done and seem appropriate for their intended use.

As an aside, one possible advantage to a chain is the ease in changing your final gear ratio by adding or subtracting teeth from either sprocket. Many bikes come “over-geared” to help with noise standards, and adding some teeth in the rear, or going down a tooth or two at the front, can result in more sprightly performance.
 
In all my motorcycle ownership time, the only maintenance I've ever done on chains is lubing them. Maybe I did one adjustment. Of course I never owned the bikes for long enough to need it. My Harley should have the belt tension checked, but that'll get taken care of when I put the new tires on it.
 
Frankly I just usually buy the bike I like, drive type be damned. I've had shaft, belt, and chain, and they all are fine with proper mx and lubrication, etc. Shaft is convenient, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ted
Bill Jennings said:
Frankly I just usually buy the bike I like, drive type be damned. I've had shaft, belt, and chain, and they all are fine with proper mx and lubrication, etc. Shaft is convenient, though.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. You notice such little difference between the different means of driving the rear wheel that it's not worth messing with one version or the other. Chains are simple and reliable. The Harley belts are also simple and reliable. And shafts are more complex and (maybe) more reliable. Whatever. I'm far more interested in the engine.
 
I've had to change out more than one chain and a few sprockets as well, but I keep bikes for a long time. Like I said, I've never had a shaft do anything but work, though my shafts were all Hondas. The final drive matters a whole bunch. Shafts are heavy, and create torque at the back wheel. Wouldn't want one on a sport or dirt bike. Shafts are nice on touring bikes, where the purpose of the thing is to eat up miles. I had an old Nighthawk with a shaft drive. Kinda weird bike, little 650cc in line 4 with a shaft. Honda. Thing never leaked a drop of oil from when I got it in 1989 until it was stolen out of my apartment's parking lot in 1997.
 
steingar said:
Shafts are heavy, and create torque at the back wheel.
Click to expand...

Modern BMW’s have a parallelogram arrangement they call “Paralever”. The geometry effectively eliminates the old torque reaction, where rolling on the throttle tended to lift the rear of the bike, or, worse, when rolling off the throttle caused the rear of the bike to squat, using up precious ground clearance.

One such...

04178909b3260a3cdd6670bbfa572267.jpg


Anyway, works quite well in spirited riding.
 
FastEddieB said:
Modern BMW’s have a parallelogram arrangement they call “Paralever”. The geometry effectively eliminates the old torque reaction, where rolling on the throttle tended to lift the rear of the bike, or, worse, when rollin off the throttle caused the rear of the bike to squat, using up precious ground clearance.

Anyway, works quite well in spirited riding.
Click to expand...
Until is breaks, which they do quite frequently. Funny thing is I never felt enough of that stuff to be a concern on any shaft bike including my Nighthawk, which was an itty bitty little thing. I always thought putting a shaft drive on a dirt bike (which is what the BMW GS series is supposed to be) was insanely ludicrous. Dirt bikes are supposed to be light.
 
The GS is a dual sport, so more of a multi-terrain touring bike. It's definitely not a "dirt bike," in that it is designed to do harsh off-pavement duty. I'd also be interested in seeing failure numbers for the paralever suspension, since my understanding is that there were some teething problems in the 80's that were worked out and the system has been very reliable for the vast majority of riders.
 
My ‘03 BMW R1150RT with paralever shaft drive was fine at 90kmi when I traded it in. No drive issues at all. OTOH, I changed the drive oil often, every 12kmi.
 
LoLPilot said:
The GS is a dual sport, so more of a multi-terrain touring bike. It's definitely not a "dirt bike," in that it is designed to do harsh off-pavement duty. I'd also be interested in seeing failure numbers for the paralever suspension, since my understanding is that there were some teething problems in the 80's that were worked out and the system has been very reliable for the vast majority of riders.
Click to expand...
I've no statistics, but I've heard a ton of gripes from BMW owners who decided that their BMWs were just fine to take out on dirt roads with all manner of surfaces. Never heard of a failure on one of their street bikes, I have to admit that. The GS is a cross between a touring and a dirt bike, and I doubt it does either particularly well.
 
steingar said:
I've no statistics, but I've heard a ton of gripes from BMW owners who decided that their BMWs were just fine to take out on dirt roads with all manner of surfaces. Never heard of a failure on one of their street bikes, I have to admit that. The GS is a cross between a touring and a dirt bike, and I doubt it does either particularly well.
Click to expand...

I rode my RT on a good bit of dirt, didn't seem to bother it one bit. As for the present GS water boxer, it's a bike that does many things very well. Go ride one, BMW allows test rides.
 
Bill Jennings said:
I rode my RT on a good bit of dirt, didn't seem to bother it one bit. As for the present GS water boxer, it's a bike that does many things very well. Go ride one, BMW allows test rides.
Click to expand...
Can't. I am inseam challenged, and can ride no dirt or dual sport bikes, at least not safely.
 
steingar said:
Can't. I am inseam challenged, and can ride no dirt or dual sport bikes, at least not safely.
Click to expand...

BMW now offers factory lowering kits, opens up the entire RGS and FGS line of bikes to the inseam challenged. I know plenty of women riding these bikes in all conditions.
 
FastEddieB said:
As an aside, one possible advantage to a chain is the ease in changing your final gear ratio by adding or subtracting teeth from either sprocket. Many bikes come “over-geared” to help with noise standards, and adding some teeth in the rear, or going down a tooth or two at the front, can result in more sprightly performance.
Click to expand...

I did enjoy toying around with different sprocket sizes on my FZR1000 - I want to say a local bike shop had used sprockets for super cheap. Could have been a salvage yard - not sure. But I would try going up or down a few teeth on the back or going down a tooth on front. One time I got crazy and went both down a tooth on the front and up a few on the rear - making first gear basically unusable for anything other than stump pulling or too-easy wheelies.

As long as you kept it so you didn't have to change the length of the chain, these changes took a matter of minutes.
 
Bill Jennings said:
BMW now offers factory lowering kits, opens up the entire RGS and FGS line of bikes to the inseam challenged. I know plenty of women riding these bikes in all conditions.
Click to expand...
Someone with an engineering degree and a crapload of smarts worked out the geometry of the bike and tweaked it so it gives a good ride. BMW is really good about that. I'll bet whoever came up with the lowering idea didn't take this into account at all. Moreover, the whole reason for them riding high is so you can go over all the obstacles you encounter off road. Hence even if the lowering doesn't ruin the ride of the bike, it will reduce its ability to do what it was designed to do. Now if I'm not going to ride off road I'll stick to street bikes. I can get a damn good touring bike with lots of farkles and have a year's gas money left over for the price of a BMW GS.
 
steingar said:
Someone with an engineering degree and a crapload of smarts worked out the geometry of the bike and tweaked it so it gives a good ride. BMW is really good about that. I'll bet whoever came up with the lowering idea didn't take this into account at all.
Click to expand...

Um, what part of factory lowered did you NOT get? The present generation of GSen were designed from the beginning with a factory lowered option. These parts are not installed at the dealer, the bike is purpose built and shipped from the factory. They ride great, just give up an inch or two of ground clearance vs the standard height bikes.

https://medium.com/@jon.madden/an-h...-bmw-r1200gs-lowered-rallye-spec-b5ebb53fe358
 
Bill Jennings said:
Um, what part of factory lowered did you NOT get? The present generation of GSen were designed from the beginning with a factory lowered option. These parts are not installed at the dealer, the bike is purpose built and shipped from the factory. They ride great, just give up an inch or two of ground clearance vs the standard height bikes.
Click to expand...
Bill, ain't nuttin' dumber than a lowered dirt bike. Defeats the purpose the bike was made for.
 
Well, Michael, if you were going to hop on a standard height GS I'm not sure you'd be able to even reach the ground on your tippy toes. So you probably would appreciate the factory lowered option. Or you could go with platform heels:

upload_2020-6-9_17-44-26.jpeg

If the BMW engineers designed it from the factory that way, sounds fine.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Well, Michael, if you were going to hop on a standard height GS I'm not sure you'd be able to even reach the ground on your tippy toes. So you probably would appreciate the factory lowered option. Or you could go with platform heels:

View attachment 86537

If the BMW engineers designed it from the factory that way, sounds fine.
Click to expand...


Now, come on - we just discussed the importance of good, protective boots for motorcycling.


upload_2020-6-9_18-58-46.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ted
I've talked to idiot noobs no taller than me who ride tall bikes they can't reach the ground from. Not for me, safety first. Bikes are really dangerous these days.
 
I found a good deal on a new leftover 2019 V Strom 650. The last one in the state as far as I can tell. Plus I get manufacture a rebate of 1200 bucks so it’s a pretty good deal the only problem is I don’t like the color, it’s white. all of the trim is black or gray so I just need to change the color of the tank.
So the question is how hard is it to paint a tank on a motorcycle?
 
Morgan3820 said:
I found a good deal on a new leftover 2019 V Strom 650. The last one in the state as far as I can tell. Plus I get manufacture a rebate of 1200 bucks so it’s a pretty good deal the only problem is I don’t like the color, it’s white. all of the trim is black or gray so I just need to change the color of the tank.
So the question is how hard is it to paint a tank on a motorcycle?
Click to expand...
I doubt it. I never cared about that sort of thing that much. I've never heard even one bad thing about the Vstrom, and lots of guys do insane things with them.
 
steingar said:
I doubt it. I never cared about that sort of thing that much. I've never heard even one bad thing about the Vstrom, and lots of guys do insane things with them.
Click to expand...

Get the tank wrapped. For something that size it wouldn't be too expensive and it would be a whole lot easier. Plus the quality and protection for the metal of OEM paint is better than an aftermarket or garage job, and I say this as an avid DIY-er.
 
Pretty much sold on belts and shafts. Now have over 100,000 miles on belts without issue. I used to replace my chain at 10-15k miles on my 1200 Bandit. Even though I cleaned and oiled the darn thing it would not stretch (no pun intended) the chain life. Having to replace the sprockets at the same time really drove the cost to the point that I got tired of it. I've owned all three and believe shafts to be the best for non-performance oriented bikes. Just check the oil level on occasion and away you go!
 
Half Fast said:
My Triumph had problems during the first year but it's been solid ever since. I chased oil leaks and coolant leaks for months. I swear, the only fluids the Brits know anything about are tea and beer. Then there was a problem with an exhaust flapper (seems like there was a recall for that). But no problems at all in the last 5 years.

Mine was the first year of a new model Daytona, so it's not too surprising that there were a few birthing pains. All covered under warranty.
Click to expand...

"The parts falling off are of the finest British engineering and manufacture."

Fiveslide said:
Have they ever come out with a chain lube that didn't sling off, at least some, onto your wheels and clothes?
Click to expand...

Some company out there (Maxima?) makes a Chain Wax now that sprays on and does a good job of not slinging off. After drying it is quite tacky.

FastEddieB said:
Modern o-ring chains don’t really need lubrication per sé. The o-rings keep the pins appropriately greased, and many thinner oils will seep past the o-rings and compromise the grease.

SOP on those chains is to clean them - I use silicone lube lightly sprayed on a rag - and then apply a chain wax, not for lubrication but for corrosion resistance.
Click to expand...

It was explained to me (haven't seen any data to prove or disprove it) but lubricating a modern o-ring chain does still help protect the sprockets from wearing as quickly and reminds you to clean the chain to get dirt and whatnot off that would wear the sprockets faster. Corrosion resistance is, of course, important also.
 
Morgan3820 said:
I found a good deal on a new leftover 2019 V Strom 650. The last one in the state as far as I can tell. Plus I get manufacture a rebate of 1200 bucks so it’s a pretty good deal the only problem is I don’t like the color, it’s white. all of the trim is black or gray so I just need to change the color of the tank.
So the question is how hard is it to paint a tank on a motorcycle?
Click to expand...

Just paint it after you drop it the first time.
 
I second the wrap idea, easy to to, easy to remove at a later date. That said, I've owned white bikes, I didn't mind the color and they're more visible.

That reminds me, white helmets are pretty visible compared to most colors, and if it's hot and sunny where you ride, they ride cooler as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top