I think I lost at least 1 cabin in the Great "Smoky" Mountains...

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by FORANE, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,856
    Location:
    TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FORANE
  2. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    15,780
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    Don't give up all hope, in the past those reports have proven to not be completely accurate.

    I read yesterday it was intentionally set, are you hearing the same?
     
  3. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    48,653
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
  4. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    11,150
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Old dog w/o new tricks
    I heard at least one of the NC fires was set by a guy who said he did it because he was bored.
     
  5. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2016
    Messages:
    809
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    midwestpa24
    This area has become one of our favorite vacation spots. We last stayed in a cabin in the Cobbly Knob area last spring, and it appears that cabin is gone. We were hoping to return this next spring, and still may if we can find a place to stay. I figure our tourism dollars could help with the recovery.
     
  6. Dana

    Dana Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Messages:
    493
    Location:
    CT & NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dana
    Sorry to hear about it. A couple of weeks ago it looked like we might lose our cabin (southern NY state) when a forest fire was burning down the mountain toward it. No insurance and probably wouldn't have been allowed to rebuild anyway (a weird grandfathered leased arrangement on state land). Nowhere near as big is the fires down south, a little over 1000 acres, in the end the fire was stopped only a couple hundred yards away from our cabin. One of our neighbors got one wall scorched, it doesn't get any closer than that.
     
  7. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    15,780
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    I am in a mildly touristy area. When we had our fire (300,000ac/6 weeks in 2011) , the businesses that rely on tourism went hungry for a little while until people could be convinced to come back.
    Naturally, there is an immediate post-calamity period in which time is needed to reestablish services or infrastructure and people should stay the heck out of the way. But once things are back up, the tourist $ means an awful lot.
     
  8. Cajun_Flyer

    Cajun_Flyer Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,715
    Location:
    New England
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cajun Flyer
    They havent caught the person(s) who started the one that affected Gatlinburg yet. I hope they do and that they charge them with murder for each of the confirmed deaths. The story that has broke my heart the most is the man who lost his wife and two young daughters.
     
  9. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,856
    Location:
    TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FORANE
    Update:
    A friend was able to make it to our cabins just today despite having attempted unsuccessfully earlier this weekend due to blocked and closed roads. He said it looks like a bomb went off everywhere he looked.
    2 of our 3 cabins are intact. 1 of those 2 had the cabin beside it and across the street from it destroyed. 1 is a total loss. The pic is where the cabin once was.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. azure

    azure Final Approach

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    7,679
    Location:
    Vermont
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    azure
    Very sorry to hear this, @FORANE.
     
  11. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    11,150
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Old dog w/o new tricks
    Yeah, that is a tough one.
     
  12. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,856
    Location:
    TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FORANE
    It has been over 6 months since the November fire in gatlinburg. The foundation debris still is untouched. just yesterday I was able to get the 1st rebuild estimate from a builder. it amounted to $250 / sf. that is significantly more than the insurance policy payout.

    We received a letter from the insurance company saying we are eligible for an additional 45k towards the rebuild if the rebuild is complete within 365 days of the loss. it appears there is little chance of getting that.

    Anyone know an available builder?
    What is a reasonable $/sf to build a cabin?
     
  13. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    9,725
    Location:
    Southeast Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    This page intentionally left blank
    Damn, sounds like a bunch of local builders think they just hit the jackpot. $250/sq ft? In that area? $500k for a 2000sq ft house? YGBSM. I'm sorry about your situation :-(
     
  14. Axtel4

    Axtel4 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    290
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Axtel4
    @FORANE Sorry to hear about your loss. My wife and I were in the area in March and are returning later this summer to help with the rebuild of the Roaring Fork Church. We were amazed how the fire would take two buildings and leave a building between them unscathed.
     
  15. murphey

    murphey Final Approach

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    7,893
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    Have you considered prefab? They're getting to be rather nice these days. I have friends who were quoted over $300K near Granby, CO. They're going prefab/modular, will cost less than $150K.
     
  16. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    9,472
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    Nothing wrong with a modular house.
     
  17. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    48,653
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    When it's new. Our upstairs is a pre-fab on top of traditional foundation and walk out basement. There's definitely some quality issues in the construction. All depends on who's pre-fab you use, but they often don't have to meet the same electrical codes or structural codes as a sticks and bricks built in the same place.

    I like ours, don't get me wrong, but studs 24" on center is stupid and cheap. Don't even get me started on the electrical. It's quite likely I'll have an electrician in and rip out every light switch and socket and have them redone properly with "old work" boxes. The 25 year old self contained switches with cheap Romex stuffed into them are a long term problem waiting to happen as they age.

    It's paid for, so we have options. We've joked but with a touch of seriousness that we could pop the top off of this place and have a proper top built on the existing foundation. Seems a bit overkill, and we would want to do it with cash, and by the time we save that up and seriously consider it, it's just smarter to sell it and build something else, probably.

    Someone up the road is either building a spec house or had problems with a bridge loan. Foundation, framing, roof sheeting, and outside insulation got done and it has sat untouched for a couple of months getting rained on. Just a lot of wood getting rained on now.

    No idea what's gone wrong up there. Maybe water rights. Don't know.

    It's three subdivided plots about six acres each out of a ranch, and all three eventually sold, but the only one building, has stopped mid-construction.
     
  18. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,856
    Location:
    TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FORANE
    Thank you. Yes, granted it is in a steep lot but the $250/sf quote was way higher than I was expecting to hear and just isn't going to happen. Unfortunately, it is the first actual quote I have been able to obtain as everyone is busy. Of course, I did get 1 other builder to look at the lot. He offered to buy the lot for a little under 20% of what the assessor thinks it is worth.
    We had another cabin with a little charcoal pitting on the side from ash thrown at it. The cabin beside it and across the street from it were completely destroyed. That is good of you to help rebuilding the church. Thank you.
    The cabin was used as an overnight rental and most renters want a log structure (or at least log look structure). Here is an example of what they are:
    https://www.cabinsofthesmokymountains.com/pigeon-forge-cabin-rental/Moonlight_Ridge.html
    There are log kits I could use perhaps. In any case, my work out of state from Gatlinburg would necessitate getting a builder regardless.

    Look at your insurance policy limits folks. Guaranteed replacement only covers up to the policy limit, which in my case was way less than what it is going to cost to replace.
     
  19. murphey

    murphey Final Approach

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    7,893
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
  20. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2016
    Messages:
    809
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    midwestpa24
    We were just in the area a few weeks ago for a vacation. We were glad to see that a lot of the area was untouched, but it was sad to see the areas that were destroyed. You could see a lot of it from the Parkway, and from the Ober tram.
     
  21. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    9,472
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    I just bought a modular house. It is 23 years old and was and still is required to meet local electrical and building codes, as all modulars are. It has 2X6 studs on 16 inch centers and is so well insulated that we set the A/C on 78 and the compressor rarely cycles. With the ceiling fans the house stays comfortable during the bright, sunny days here in the high desert. Someone was thinking ahead because the electrical is split so anything mounted in the ceiling such as lights and ceiling fans are on a separate line. I will be able to connect the lights and ceiling fans to solar power only and never worry about power outages.

    I did have a friend of mine that is an HVAC company check the heater, A/C as well as the pellet stove and he told me they are all top of the line units.

    Of course the previous owner can have a lot to do with the current condition of the house. The previous owner was the original owner and believed in over kill. He custom ordered the house and added a lot to it. The only thing I wish he had done was put a basement under it, and have a deeper well going into the good water.

    One thing I liked about the modular is that if we don't like one part of the house we can have it removed and something else put in its place. We are thinking that we will add a upstairs quest quarters, a bedroom, bathroom and a small living area so quest can have their own little private area.

    I wasn't looking for and I had very little knowledge about modular until I looked at this one. Plus the view is killer here.

    Sorry to hear you are having problems. Maybe a previous owner tried to go on the cheap and did the work themselves?
     
  22. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    48,653
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Oh, no problems. The thing sits here and acts like a people box just fine. Keeps the water out and the heat/cold in. It's just poorly constructed. The electrical stuff I don't like,met code in the 80s for modulars, and probably does today.

    Doesn't mean it's done right, just meeting code. Code is often lower quality for modulars. Depending on what you're talking about.

    Not sure what the previous owner doing work has to do with the original stuff in it.

    2x6 studs in yours? That's really beefy.

    My warning was mainly that if you go with a modular, make sure you know exactly how it's constructed. Some are cheap, some are good, usually the two are at odds.
     
  23. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    4,110
    Location:
    Eclectic, AL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Hank
    A friend we travel modular in the 90s. I helped add ceiling fans (prepared was nice!). The wall switches were clipped to the sheet rock mkbjle-home style, and many other things were mobile home parts . . . . 'Nuff said. But it was cheaper to build on already-owned land.
     
  24. asechrest

    asechrest En-Route

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,586
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    asechrest
    Couple comments from an insurance guy - can the insurance company recommend any preferred contractors? They sometimes keep a list of contractors who work in the area and are known to do good work and offer the insurance company fair prices for repairs to their insured's dwellings. Maybe they'd be willing to share. Dunno. Ask the adjuster. This advice comes from a guy who works in a dense county and metro area, so perhaps it's a different ballgame in the mountains.

    What policy coverage is it that is offering an additional $45k if the cabin is rebuilt in a year? Is it Extended Rebuild Cost or something similar in name? Have you verified with the policy that this is the way the coverage applies?

    If you have a coverage called Guaranteed Replacement Cost, that really does mean that they'll cover a total loss even if your policy limit is lower. Problem is, that coverage is very rare, and most people don't have it. So outside of some ancillary extras like Extended Rebuild Cost or Ordinance or Law coverage, your coverage limit really is the limit.
     
  25. coloradobluesky

    coloradobluesky En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,621
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    coloradobluesky
    One of the problems with property burned by fire in the mountains. Most policies don't cover the loss of the (natural) landscape. And if it sloped or has a gully, there are usually floods with erosion the year or two after the fire.

    A lot of us will simply get the maximum on our policy and be underinsured. Outbuildings, vehicles, landscaping etc not covered fully. Whether its a good idea to be insured up to the point where everything is covered is up to you. More coverage costs more money.
     
  26. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,856
    Location:
    TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FORANE
    I spoke with my insurance agent (who is based right there in Gatlinburg). She did provide a list of 4 builders who were doing work for $160/sf "on up" and said if we wait a couple years it should come down.
    I don't have the documents with me now but I seem to recall it was named recovered depreciation rebuild cost so something similar. They said we were eligible to receive it only if we rebuilt.
    I emailed the adjuster who is located in AZ and advised my intention to rebuild but as yet unable to locate a builder. The following was his reply:
    Thank you for the update and the claim is still open and we are allowing up to 2 years from the date of the loss for you to get a contract with a builder or contractor to rebuild. And even that time frame can be extended if the reason for the delay or delays are beyond your control like your current situation.
    We did have guaranteed replacement cost on the interior furnishings. It had a paltry 5k limit. They said that guaranteed replacement in that setting was capped at 5k regardless of the words guaranteed replacement.
     
  27. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    48,653
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    I know it's too late to mention it now, but this is negotiable. You can get replacement value on more valuable contents with an inventory, sometimes an appraisal is needed, and a rider is added to increase the premiums.

    Many people are vastly underinsured on the value of contents if they have collections of any sort which are worth anything. Agents and brokers make nearly nothing on the riders and rarely ask or push them to sell them. All it is is more paperwork to them.
     
  28. coloradobluesky

    coloradobluesky En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,621
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    coloradobluesky
    Having insurance is always a risk. If you have it, and don't use it, you pay and don't get any return. If you use it, you are glad you have it, and if it is not enough, then you wish you had more. The concept of insurance is good. Occasionally a house burns down. We all pay to have it rebuilt through our insurance premiums. If our house burns down, we are covered. But there are the administrative costs and other overhead.

    There is something called 'payout ratio'. It is the percentage of the premiums that the insurance company pays out divided by the total premiums taken in. There is a company called A.M Best that rates insurance companies and is the insurance company bible on insurance company quality and existence etc. Most states have a state insurance regulator.
     
  29. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    48,653
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    The house that burnt down about a mile up the road is still a boarded up campfire mess.

    Haven't seen any activity that makes it look like it'll be rebuilt.

    I rolled up the road on that one right as the FD was putting the first water on it and the Sheriff had closed the road. Flame showing out of both floors and the attic by then.
     
  30. bflynn

    bflynn En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    4,261
    Location:
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brian Flynn
    Having insurance should not be the risk.
     
  31. asechrest

    asechrest En-Route

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,586
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    asechrest
    Ok, that's good news that they're willing to extend the deadline. Be sure that's in writing.

    There is a disconnect, here. Double check your policy. If the word "guaranteed" is in the name of the coverage, they should not be adhering to the $5k limit. That's the point of the guarantee part. I think it's likely you just have Replacement Cost Contents, which simply adjusts the loss payout on each item of your damage/destroyed contents at replacement cost (vs. adjusted for depreciation), but only up to the stated policy limit. If the word "guarantee" is anywhere in the coverage language for the structure or contents, I think you've got a lot of leverage here.
     
    FORANE likes this.
  32. asechrest

    asechrest En-Route

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,586
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    asechrest
    There are two primary issues with accepting just the standard "Contents" coverage in the policy:
    1. It pays no mind to intrinsic value or irreplaceability
    2. It has a number limitations that can bite you
    So, for example, if you've got an irreplaceable antique desk and it burns up in a fire, even though you're covered for the peril of fire, you're going to get a wholly inadequate payout as it relates to the real value of that desk. Second, a glance at the Contents coverage section in your policy will also show some standard limitations. For example, jewelry is generally covered, but loss by THEFT of jewelry is severely limited (often $1,000 or so). Ditto with loss by THEFT of firearms, silverware, etc.

    So the idea of the rider is twofold: 1) you and the insurance company agree on value for each scheduled item (often supported by an appraisal, as you said), so that the payout for loss to each item is reasonably known, and 2) it broadens the perils for which the policy covers said item, so you'll no longer find that severe theft limitation, for example.

    Also, a standalone inland marine policy will often offer better coverage and a lower deductible than a rider to your homeowner policy. It may also shield your homeowner policy from the claim if you have a loss. Usually more expensive, though.

    (As always, consult your policy for final answers.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
    denverpilot likes this.
  33. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    11,919
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weilke
    It sounds like the 45k is your depreciation holdback. I have that on a current roof claim. Only when I provide of proof of the finished project, the holdback gets released. The basic idea is that the insurance will only cover the depreciated part of your structure if you actually re-build.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
  34. asechrest

    asechrest En-Route

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,586
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    asechrest
    I don't think that applies to him because this is a total loss and should be governed by Tennessee's Valued Policy law, which mandates a face-value payout (certain conditions apply). So he should be getting a policy-limit payout. This $45k sounds like something else above and beyond his policy limit. Not licensed in TN but that's what it seems like to me.

    Forane: you might also look into whether you had Ordinance or Law Coverage and whether you will have increased costs of reconstruction due to new codes or ordinances put in place since the original home was constructed. Ordinance or Law coverage is over and above your Dwelling limit, but applies only if you have those increased costs. Again I haven't seen your policy and I'm not in TN so just offering some things to look at.
     
    Matthew likes this.
  35. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,856
    Location:
    TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FORANE
    ok, I have the letter stating:
    This letter is to remind you that your policy as endorsed by the specified additional amount of insurance coverage A provides additional coverage of $45,000.00 for replacement rebuild of home. Once completed, you may claim within 365 days of the date of loss for reimbursement of the held back recoverable depreciation. Please provide invoices...

    I am familiar with ordinance of law coverage. It is not in this policy. We own 80 some units of apartments also so I have had to secure a number of property insurance policies and have learned a little along the way. This experience has proved I have much more to learn.
    At least for now I have received email from the adjuster stating the timeframe has been extended to 2 years or possible longer as previously posted.
    I am told if I get the debris cleared I can insure the vacant lot as a simple no additional cost rider on my personal residence policy.
    The quest for a reasonable builder continues...
     
  36. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    11,919
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weilke
    How much are you losing by not having the place in the rental market ?
     
  37. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,856
    Location:
    TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FORANE
    It was a commercial policy with provision for rental income loss reimbursement. The rental loss payout in my case was equivalent to about 1 years income so thus far I haven't lost any rental income. of course the insurance company deducts the property management share which in gatlinburg is typically 40%. That seems high but renting it like a hotel the management company brings value to the table.
     
  38. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    11,919
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weilke
    Rather than having a local builder build a log-cabin for you, it may be cost effective to buy a kit and bring in an erection crew from out of state. You may need a local engineer to stamp the plans and a local contractor to 'supervise' the work. That way you may be able to get back in business faster than if you wait for the local construction cost to come back down.
     
    asechrest likes this.
  39. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,856
    Location:
    TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FORANE
    We are just past 1 year since the Gatlinburg fires.
    Just now finishing the foundation of the rebuild. 20171204_143246.jpg
     
  40. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    15,780
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    Steep piece of property! Good luck with the rebuild.
    Was thinking 'cut trees back; make firebreak' but maybe they are keeping the soil on that slope.