I need advice after passing my IR checkride

[Morgan3820]

Not surprisingly my training focused on hold and approaches. There wasn't, to my mind a lot of discussion of selecting routing. To me the whole point of an IF is to go places with greater dispatch reliability. I have filed IFR several times but mostly short, direct hops.
What are some tips on developing longer routing that will pass ATC muster? My plane is /A with FF.
What are the guidelines for requesting a direct clearance with only a VFR gps?

 

[jordane93]

Not surprisingly my training focused on hold and approaches. There wasn't, to my mind a lot of discussion of selecting routing. To me the whole point of an IF is to go places with greater dispatch reliability. I have filed IFR several times but mostly short, direct hops.
What are some tips on developing longer routing that will pass ATC muster? My plane is /A with FF.
What are the guidelines for requesting a direct clearance with only a VFR gps?

You can not accept a direct to clearance without an IFR certified GPS. You can put in the remarks something like "VFR GPS on board" but they can't issue you direct to clearance. They'll just have to give you vectors.

 

[ARFlyer]

Your basically limited to Victor Airways and approaches with VOR guidence and/or waypoints along the airway to the IAF.

Like @jordane93 said your GPS can't be used in the IFR environment. As others will say, it would be wise to upgrade to at least a 430. You can find second hand ones pretty cheap.

 

[RotorDude]

If you are very tight on budget, you can get by on VOR nav for a while, but you'll need a certified GPS pretty soon, since many airports are becoming dependent on GPS approaches and you might need to fly to an alternate when your destination still has fairly high minimums but their ILS is down or whatever.
IOW, the "utility" of IFR in the modern era is fairly dependent on GPS, like it or not.
However, until you get your financial ducks in a row, you can file a VOR route (aka airways), but keep asking for direct routing once enroute. You'll have to learn where that's possible (and that might also depend on time of day and week, etc). When you do ask for direct, ATC assumes you are responsible for navigation, so you can use your VFR GPS while monitoring your progress with your certified VOR gear. As long as you seem to be tracking the course, ATC won't mind.
BTW, even if you have all the latest certified GPS gear, depending on the part of the country and route, you might still need to file airways (or get cleared that way), and only get direct clearances enroute.

 

[Kritchlow]

You can not accept a direct to clearance without an IFR certified GPS. You can put in the remarks something like "VFR GPS on board" but they can't issue you direct to clearance. They'll just have to give you vectors.

Before your time...
We accepted a clearance "fly heading xxx until able direct xxx". It was commonplace before GPS.

 

[Shawn]

What are some tips on developing longer routing that will pass ATC muster?

Sites like fltplan.com have listed what other planes have been cleared for the same and/or similar routes...that for me was a big help in selecting a route to file that might be close to what ATC will clear on a long XC.

One thing I like about Foreflight is that if you file through FF it will spit back to you an "expected" route that ATC may clear you for so that it is not a total guessing game when you get your clearance.

 

[jordane93]

Before your time...
We accepted a clearance "fly heading xxx until able direct xxx". It was commonplace before GPS.

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth?

 

[James331]

Get a IFR GPS

File direct

See what you get

Wx permitting just drop to VFR with FF and go direct

 

[Morgan3820]

You can not accept a direct to clearance without an IFR certified GPS. You can put in the remarks something like "VFR GPS on board" but they can't issue you direct to clearance. They'll just have to give you vectors.

I understand that I can while underway via Victor airways, ATC can approve a direct clearance, am I wrong?

 

[azure]

I understand that I can while underway via Victor airways, ATC can approve a direct clearance, am I wrong?

What they can approve and what you're allowed to accept are two different things. ATC approves clearances for direct routes the pilot is not legally equipped to navigate fairly often. But the pilot is not supposed to accept those clearances.

I was once a passenger in a /A plane where ATC cleared us direct to an airport 200 nm away without a VOR on the field. The pilot accepted the clearance. We later came to understand that she should have refused that clearance.

To put it simply, if you're /A or /U and the clearance is direct to a navaid you can receive (e.g., a VOR) and you're within the service volume of the navaid, then you can accept the clearance. Otherwise the clearance has to be as Kritchlow said, fly heading xxx until able direct.

If the clearance is direct to a fix, an intersection, or an airport without a navaid on the field, then although they may offer you the clearance, you're supposed to refuse it.

(You can always suggest a vector to ATC based on your VFR GPS. If they give it to you, then you're technically flying on radar vectors not direct via a VFR GPS, so it's legal.)

 

[Cooter]

The way we would do it is ask if direct was available, and if they said yes then request an initial vector. I think we would then report when we were receiving.

 

[RotorDude]

Before I had IFR GPS installed, I had VFR-only GPS, and flew it IFR (much of it IMC) for many years. I now have IFR GPS (GTN-750) and fly similar routes. With knowledge of the ATC system (which direct routing they'll accept), I end up with a similar level of "direct" clearances.
The trick while flying IFR with VFR GPS (as I mentioned in my earlier post) is to request a direct clearance (while enroute), then use your VFR GPS to set your initial heading, stay on that track and keep monitoring it using your VOR gear. ATC never complained, and I read many articles over the years by respected aviation authors who supported this method as both legal and safe.
But as I also noted above, this should be viewed as stopgap only, since once you approach your destination you might need to divert due to GPS only approach (e.g. ILS on the fritz). This happened to me several times and gave me the final push to join the 21st century.

 

[Kritchlow]

Get a IFR GPS

File direct

See what you get

Wx permitting just drop to VFR with FF and go direct

The most unprofessional thing to do. File what you are likely to get... It will help with fuel planning.
I know GA guys just tanker regardless, but that's not what a pro should do.

 

[Morgan3820]

Before I had IFR GPS installed, I had VFR-only GPS, and flew it IFR (much of it IMC) for many years. I now have IFR GPS (GTN-750) and fly similar routes. With knowledge of the ATC system (which direct routing they'll accept), I end up with a similar level of "direct" clearances.
The trick while flying IFR with VFR GPS (as I mentioned in my earlier post) is to request a direct clearance (while enroute), then use your VFR GPS to set your initial heading, stay on that track and keep monitoring it using your VOR gear. ATC never complained, and I read many articles over the years by respected aviation authors who supported this method as both legal and safe.
But as I also noted above, this should be viewed as stopgap only, since once you approach your destination you might need to divert due to GPS only approach (e.g. ILS on the fritz). This happened to me several times and gave me the final push to join the 21st century.

Thanks for the insight. I fly mainly low density areas and sometimes vor routing is awkward. But I am coming around to the IFR GPS, but I want to wait until I move up to the next plane. Installing a IFR GPS in a 1976 Warrior is a money loser, especially if I sell in a year. The next plane will likely be the last, so the money issue less of a concern. I just want to start learning to use this new capability that I worked hard to get.

 

[Palmpilot]

The most unprofessional thing to do. File what you are likely to get... It will help with fuel planning.
I know GA guys just tanker regardless, but that's not what a pro should do.

For us bug smasher guys, the money saved by avoiding tankering is just not enough to justify the time and effort required. I just try to make sure my planning is conservative enough to ensure that I don't run out, while staying within weight limits.

 

[Tflhndn]

Before your time...
We accepted a clearance "fly heading xxx until able direct xxx". It was commonplace before GPS.

I got one of those yesterday. Departed Rock Hill, SC, to KGSO. "Cleared direct via radar vectors" after ten minutes or so: given "turn left heading 040, until able Direct GSO VOR..."

 

[James331]

The most unprofessional thing to do. File what you are likely to get... It will help with fuel planning.
I know GA guys just tanker regardless, but that's not what a pro should do.

So shy of planning around wx, I file direct and get direct 9 times out of 10, why would I choose more complex routing, how would slowing myself down make me more professional, I ain't paid off Hobbs.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Up here in SFRA land, spending a lot of time planning just doesn't make sense, cuz chances are after the first fix you get a reroute anyway. The clearance may or may not remotely reflect what you filed. I rarely punch more than the first three fixes into the GPS. The computer spits out the clearance, the controller's work you in as they can, and negotiations begin.
File what you want, fly what you get, don't be afraid to make a reasonable request.

 

[Lance F]

Airways, whether flown by GPS or the VORs, have their uses. 1) in mountainous areas they will often get you the lowest altitudes which may give you better winds aloft or maybe avoid needing supplementary O2. 2) in places like the northeast you WILL get put on an airway, so you might as well get used to it. 3) radar outages happen and ATC will put you on an airway for that too ((you might even have to remember the proper way to report mandatory reporting waypoints).
Just learning approaches and holds really is not the full IFR package. Don't become totally complacent with GPS direct.

 

[denverpilot]

Our airplane is /A also and I've never found it to be that big a deal to file via airways.

In high density traffic areas you're going to be vectored all over hell and back most of the time anyway, and enroute the airway isn't that far off of a GPS direct route.

Additionally the airway offers something the direct route doesn't, especially at night. Obstacle clearance becomes a lot easier to manage. Especially in the middle of nowhere.

"Join Victor blah blah, resume own navigation..." Not that big a deal in a 182 or in your case, a Warrior. You aren't going to be up high enough that anyone at the Center even cares where you are or where you're going.

Unless you're headed over big rocks, file something above the MEA for the whole route and the departure end will ask you if that's your final cruising altitude (they ask even though it's what you filed, I have no idea why, maybe they're surprised it's so low) and then you'll be ignored out West here for an hour other than sector handoffs and altimeter setting updates, if you even get those.

Out east, or anywhere near a major city you'll be vectored all over the place to get you out of the way of arrivals and departures, but it'll usually end up about the same extra distance it would have been on an airway route, so the fuel burn will end up the same.

 

[Cooter]

For us bug smasher guys, the money saved by avoiding tankering is just not enough to justify the time and effort required. I just try to make sure my planning is conservative enough to ensure that I don't run out, while staying within weight limits.

What is tankering?

 

[Lance F]

Carrying more fuel than needed. Reasons could be fuel is more expensive where you're landing or not available. There's a weight penalty for doing it.

 

[somorris]

(You can always suggest a vector to ATC based on your VFR GPS. If they give it to you, then you're technically flying on radar vectors not direct via a VFR GPS, so it's legal.)

This is the way to do it, Morgan. This will get you by until your next airplane.

 

[Kritchlow]

For us bug smasher guys, the money saved by avoiding tankering is just not enough to justify the time and effort required. I just try to make sure my planning is conservative enough to ensure that I don't run out, while staying within weight limits.

There is some truth to that. But in addition to fuel concerns, there is weather and other items that come to mind.

 

[Kritchlow]

So shy of planning around wx, I file direct and get direct 9 times out of 10, why would I choose more complex routing, how would slowing myself down make me more professional, I ain't paid off Hobbs.

If you get direct 9/10 times, than that would indeed be the route to file as I described above...

 

[coma24]

I fly in the NE and file the TEC routes from the AFD, getting cleared as filed a large percentage of the time. Same deal when I flew LAX-CRQ on the west coast not long ago (once again, TEC routes to the rescue). In less populated terminal areas, you can file and receive direct.

Just know that there are two fairly different operating environments and which one you're in at the time and it will minimize your heartache.

 

[jordane93]

So shy of planning around wx, I file direct and get direct 9 times out of 10, why would I choose more complex routing, how would slowing myself down make me more professional, I ain't paid off Hobbs.

Well you do fly air ambulance so I'd expect you to get direct. Or are you talking about your personal plane?

 

[azure]

Well you do fly air ambulance so I'd expect you to get direct. Or are you talking about your personal plane?

Not sure about upstate NY where I believe James is based, but in VT, NH, and ME, I've gotten direct almost every time in my Cardinal. Exceptions are around population centers; in particular, I usually get a vector or an airway around KMHT; but if northbound, then once past Manchester airspace I'm nearly always offered direct.

 

[jordane93]

Not sure about upstate NY where I believe James is based, but in VT, NH, and ME, I've gotten direct almost every time in my Cardinal. Exceptions are around population centers; in particular, I usually get a vector or an airway around KMHT; but if northbound, then once past Manchester airspace I'm nearly always offered direct.

Direct is not in NY controllers' dictionary. If I ask for a shortcut, they're usually pretty good about giving it to me.

 

[RotorDude]

Not sure about upstate NY where I believe James is based, but in VT, NH, and ME, I've gotten direct almost every time in my Cardinal. Exceptions are around population centers; in particular, I usually get a vector or an airway around KMHT; but if northbound, then once past Manchester airspace I'm nearly always offered direct.

Direct is not in NY controllers' dictionary. If I ask for a shortcut, they're usually pretty good about giving it to me.

Yes, you need to know what's available and what's not. In those busy areas you are likely to get major deviations with zig-zaggy routing, but as you get away from the hub, you can ask for shortcuts, and eventually get direct destination (when heading outbound). You do need to ask, since most of the time they won't offer it to you spontaneously, regardless of your equipment code.

 

[James331]

Well you do fly air ambulance so I'd expect you to get direct. Or are you talking about your personal plane?

I don't go IFR much in my plane, probably been about 4 months since I got above 1500AGL, still always climb way up to 2k for VTF for the ILS on my flight back to the hangar, yeah, it's only VFR w/o FF, but it atleast keeps me somewhat in the IFR saddle in my own plane.

Work plane is given priority, but on the return leg we are just another plane, nothing special, up here we still get direct nearly always outside of places like BOS, PHL, TEB, etc, and those places I often just depart VFR and pick my IFR up later if I can.

 

[azure]

Direct is not in NY controllers' dictionary. If I ask for a shortcut, they're usually pretty good about giving it to me.

Depends on where in NY you are, probably. In and around the 'dacks is ZBW airspace. They've offered me direct in that area more than once. That's why I qualified my comment with "not sure about where James is", because I really don't know where in NY he is. The 'dacks are pretty remote. South of KALB I would not be surprised to find that things were quite different.

 

[Kritchlow]

But keeping with my theory... If "direct" is the expected actual clearance, than indeed you should file direct.

My initial post was geared toward people too lazy to look at what's expected, and just file direct and let ATC sort it out.

 

[coloradobluesky]

I have done it every way possible, including most of the wrong ways. I ended up usually filing to a nearby waypoint and then DIRECT to the VOR nearest the airport of my destination. I discovered I was usually filing one plan, getting cleared for a second, and flying a third so just file what is easiest. The reason I use the VOR instead of the airport is complicated and hard to explain. It has to do with the fact that I may be cancelling before I get there, or actually thats not my final destination etc. YMMV

And if they clear you for some long involved thing, complain and ask them to shorten it. They just might.

The only reason I can think of not to fly direct is if you need the lower MEAs of the airways.....

 

[Palmpilot]

It seems to me that there is some value in making sure that what you file is not overly optimistic for fuel planning purposes.

 

[azure]

The only reason I can think of not to fly direct is if you need the lower MEAs of the airways.....

And this is the reason I've filed airways in New England, usually in the winter, to stay below icing conditions.