I failed my Initial Commercial Multi Checkride Oral- ACS Standards?

The 414 time should of been logged as dual received with the signature from the MEI who was the acting PIC.
 
RyanB said:
The 414 time should of been logged as dual received with the signature from the MEI who was the acting PIC.
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MauleSkinner said:
But then he couldn’t have used it for Duties of PIC. :rolleyes:
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It COULD be reasonable to have 414 time as PDPIC. If in that 150 multiengine hours, the OP had 100 or so in the 414, it could be reasonable to have some of that as PDPIC. But definitely not all. Whether that's the case here, no idea, but if the scenario was like this, it could be reasonable:
- Boss is an MEI, flies a 414.
- Invites the applicant to go along with him, and teaches him how to fly the 414.
- Applicant studies up and learns all about the 414.
- Boss legit "teaches" him, on empty legs, for example, and they do actual training.
- He simultaneously starts working in a Seneca to do all the normal multi stuff that you wouldn't want to do in a 414.
- After a while, the Boss feels he's pretty competent and knowledgeable, so transitions to being a "ballast CFI" in the 414.
- He uses that PDPIC time towards his Commercial requirements.

That seems like it "could" be reasonable. I don't remember the exact breakdown, but if that 150 hours consisted of 140 hours in the 414 and 10 in the Seneca, I as a DPE would sure want to probe that 414 knowledge to make sure it's "real" and not just time-building ride-along. And with 140 recent hours, I would expect a pretty thorough knowledge of its speeds and systems.
 
RussR said:
It COULD be reasonable to have 414 time as PDPIC. If in that 150 multiengine hours, the OP had 100 or so in the 414, it could be reasonable to have some of that as PDPIC. But definitely not all. Whether that's the case here, no idea, but if the scenario was like this, it could be reasonable:
- Boss is an MEI, flies a 414.
- Invites the applicant to go along with him, and teaches him how to fly the 414.
- Applicant studies up and learns all about the 414.
- Boss legit "teaches" him, on empty legs, for example, and they do actual training.
- He simultaneously starts working in a Seneca to do all the normal multi stuff that you wouldn't want to do in a 414.
- After a while, the Boss feels he's pretty competent and knowledgeable, so transitions to being a "ballast CFI" in the 414.
- He uses that PDPIC time towards his Commercial requirements.

That seems like it "could" be reasonable. I don't remember the exact breakdown, but if that 150 hours consisted of 140 hours in the 414 and 10 in the Seneca, I as a DPE would sure want to probe that 414 knowledge to make sure it's "real" and not just time-building ride-along. And with 140 recent hours, I would expect a pretty thorough knowledge of its speeds and systems.
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You didn’t specifically state it, but IIRC, the “duties of PIC” stuff is in lieu of solo, so it would have to be 10 hours of empty legs.

Otherwise, yes, I’d expect a pretty thorough knowledge at that point.
 
Rgbeard said:
This place needs to be sprayed.

View attachment 104321
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Yep....I screwed up a programming example on Tuesday....next class day I (gleefully!) explained what I did wrong, and warned the students that they will do the same, probably many times in their careers. It happens. An excellent teaching opportunity to discuss advantages of code reviews.
 
The OPs entire tirade is just so wrong....

Consider the most basic statement

"I tell him the VOR is not current as students aren’t allowed to do the check."

Oh so wrong...the OP has ASEL and IR, as such there's no prohibition against him doing the check. I learned this as a PPL student, for criminy sake.

Next, the jarring poor use of English:

"So myself and my Instructor walk in"

High school english class....remove the "and my instructor", the sentence is still wrong.
 
I really think the logging of the PIC time in a multi when not appropriately rated for the aircraft is the crux of this issue. If it was all just logged as dual received it may not have raised as much of an eyebrow.

Having 150+ hours of it before taking the checkride also fails the smell test, although is possible.
 
Half Fast said:
As I understand the OP, only 10 hours were in the 414.
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He said he had about 150 hrs multi 414 conquest and CJ and 10 as supervised solo.

As for OP. Systems is a big part of commercial operations and probably one of the most neglected. With 140hrs multi dual I would expect you to be proficient enough in just general systems knowledge much less aircraft specific to breeze through. Sound like you were a pax who just happened to be allowed to log dual. If I was a DPE I'd hammer you on that too. If you walk in with something out of the ordinary then you better expect some pushback on it. I got 10 hours in a conquest 1 and 2 and was solo in those and very proficient in systems. You got 140 hours of multi instruction you should be able to build the aircraft and fly it with precision. This isn't an atp ride where some DPE pulls out some random plane you flew 5 years ago and says gimme all the v speeds and emergency procedures that would be unfair. This is you saying I have half my required aviation experience for a commercial checkride in high performance multi engine pressurized aircraft the DPE being rightly skeptical and failing you when it became obvious that 140hrs multi wasn't really instruction.

EDIT: If I was a dpe and someone logged 3 hours in a random aircraft outside their experience level I'd say cool thats a nifty plane did you have fun flying it and that would be that. If someone came to me with 150 hours then its fair game.
 
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murphey said:
The OPs entire tirade is just so wrong....

Consider the most basic statement

"I tell him the VOR is not current as students aren’t allowed to do the check."
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Not to mention that a Commercial Multi add-on requires an instrument approach, which means the VOR check may need to be done, and if so, the applicant should have at least ensured that someone who is allowed to do it accomplished it prior to the checkride.

this is obviously all the fault of the school he ranted about in the other thread. The OP obviously needs to switch careers, as everybody in aviation is out to get him.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Not to mention that a Commercial Multi add-on requires an instrument approach, which means the VOR check may need to be done, and if so, the applicant should have at least ensured that someone who is allowed to do it accomplished it prior to the checkride.

this is obviously all the fault of the school he ranted about in the other thread. The OP obviously needs to switch careers, as everybody in aviation is out to get him.
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As students my flight school showed me how to do and record the VOR check as we had a VOT on our field. There was no talk of a student not being able to do a VOR check. I did more than one in school planes and signed the logs.
 
Gary Ward said:
As students my flight school showed me how to do and record the VOR check as we had a VOT on our field. There was no talk of a student not being able to do a VOR check. I did more than one in school planes and signed the logs.
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I suspect this wasn’t the only question for which the OP tried to point the finger of blame rather than take responsibility for ensuring things were right.
 
I am a bit baffled about several of the OPs comments. Was this a 141 program? If it is, were the aircraft he listed inspected by the FSDO prior to use in the 141 program? Why can’t a student pilot perform a simple Part 91 VOR check, doesn’t the school teach them how properly to do it?
 
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