I’m starting my flight training but I’m scared of dying.

Half Fast · Jul 22, 2019

kayoh190 said:
Technology is going to cause massive change in all sorts of professions down the road,.....

True.

Which means there will be more and more career opportunities in the technology professions. An engineering degree will pay off.

kayoh190 · Jul 22, 2019

Half Fast said:
Which means there will be more and more career opportunities in the technology professions.

Well, more opportunity in certain tech professions. Simply being involved in 'tech' isn't necessarily going to insulate yourself from industry change. Everyone seems to thing their particular job is immune.

Clip4 · Jul 22, 2019

kayoh190 said:
Technology is going to cause massive change in all sorts of professions down the road, including medicine. If the kid really wants to fly, I say go for it. Not saying he shouldn't also have a Plan B, but I'd recommend that regardless.

Seeing any employment opportunities for flight engineers?

DaleB · Jul 22, 2019

skier said:
I have to admit to not looking at how these types of loans work, but could they have received better interest rates by taking it out all at one time rather than taking out loans for $5k at a time to complete each certificate?

All in saying is maybe his parents are smarter than you’re giving them credit for and it does make sense in this situation.

No one in their right mind would commit to the entire debt load up front. There's no way that could be made to make sense. We don't know the details, but I suspect it's either a college aviation program (unlikely since he's only 16) or some sort of puppy mill school.

If I had a 16 year old kid who wanted to fly for a living, I'd tell him (and help him, to some degree) to get his initial training, then see him enrolled in a college or university with an strong aviation program for a degree and further certs. I'm not a professional pilot nor an expert on aviation careers, but I have raised kids. Several of them. Would there even be a point to having an ATP certificate at 21?

CharlieD3 · Jul 22, 2019

Pretty much an amalgam of what everyone above said... ESPECIALLY about the loan.

Look. You don't need the pressure of making good on a huge loan taken out for you to do something you don't have a passion for. And right now, it seems like you want the end result but want to skip the hard part... Earning it.

There is no instant gratification in becoming a professional pilot. I know a guy who went on food stamps through his time building with a wife and kids to boot. And now, he flies for Net Jets...

Make sure you can get over your fear. Then put one foot in front of the other until you get to your destination.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

EdFred · Jul 22, 2019

I'm not going to speak about the loan or whether your parents should or shouldn't do something. It's your family and their decision, however about your fear...

Take a couple more lessons before committing. You gotta face your fear, and immerse yourself in it. If the panic and anxiety doesn't go away after 4 or 5 lessons, you may need to
1) look into another career path
2) see a therapist/psychologist/phobia specialist to see if they can help

If/after you get over your fear, then look at the best road to pursue your dream. That road *may* be the loan, and then again it may not be.

kayoh190 · Jul 22, 2019

Clip4 said:
Seeing any employment opportunities for flight engineers?

The kid is really passionate about aviation, but you think he'd be 'wasting his life' because of something that might happen in a couple of decades? I had people telling me the exact same thing you are in the mid 90s when I was his age, and even if I lost my job tomorrow, I'd walk away with no regrets. At least I got to fly. Life's too short to always make the safe choice.

Palmpilot · Jul 22, 2019

Clip4 said:
At age 16 do not waste your life to become a pilot. Pilots will be replaced by technology over the next 25 years eliminating all the first officer positions. You will be 41 years old in a world with a pilot glut. Go to school to be a doctor of some sort. There is will be lots of sick people well past your life expectancy.

You seem to have a lot of faith in unproven future technology.

If you're so sure that replacing pilots with AI is a slam dunk, how do you know doctors won't be replaced by AI?

Half Fast · Jul 22, 2019

EdFred said:
2) see a therapist/psychologist/phobia specialist to see if they can help

Of course, that will make getting a medical really complicated ....

SkyDog58 · Jul 22, 2019

MuseChaser said:
Myth. Myth. MYTH...... whereth my teeth?

Well, I guess I can only speak to my own experiences.

Yep. Myth.

Juliet Hotel · Jul 22, 2019

Jah-Christo Decembre said:
See the things is, i can’t really see me doing anything else but flying. But that’s not the point. I want to be a pilot. I’m going to be a pilot.

And then what? Ok so lets magically make you a pilot. Poof you're a pilot and you or your parents are now 81k in the hole. Now what? What do you want to do with those certs? What kind of life do you want to have? How much time off vs work time do you want? How much job stability do you want? Do you plan to stay single or start a family? If so, when?

Most young folks I see that get obsessed with flying, get obsessed with the flying part, but they never seem to give much thought to the umpteen other hours of the day that go along with it. The living out of a suit case for most of every month part. The being away from friends and family for lots of holidays and social events part. The one failed medical or three busted recurrent rides could mean the end of your career part.

None of that is necessarily bad, but its all part of the deal. The wanting to fly real bad part isn't enough, every pilot wants to fly real bad. You have to also want all the parts of the day and of the lifestyle that don't involve flying. Because if you don't, you will likely go from loving the flying part to hating it. Which brings us to you're sure you're going to love the job and you're probably right but how do you feel about spending large amounts of time with someone who hates the job? Because there are are lots of individuals in professional aviation who have come to hate job and the life but feel they're too old and too in debt to go back to school and learn another trade.

I also totally agree that taking out a loan to go from zero to ATP is not a wise idea. Go get a private cert and stop there. Fly on that for a bit and see how you like it. Get a job at the airport, preferably an airport with airline and/or business jet operations and get yourself some exposure to those who are flying professionally. Get yourself some exposure to what their day to day lives are like. If after that you still think its something you want to do, then go get a loan and go to school and do the advanced certs.

Oh and the nervousness fear of death thing? Its normal. And in 99% of cases, its gone on its own by the time you're ready to solo. Don't lose sleep over it.

Palmpilot · Jul 22, 2019

Jah-Christo Decembre said:
I’m 16, had my discovery flight on Monday in the DA20. I was excited but also scared at the same time. My stomach kept dropping etc and there were winds. I felt like we were going to fall out of the sky (It’s been almost 10 years since I last flew on a plane). I really want to become a pilot, I when I got off the plane going home I was happy, I wanted to do it again. Now here is the hard part. My parents are taking out a $81,000 loan so I can complete flight school and get all my certificates including atp. I don’t want to chicken out and make them waste their money. I really want to be a pilot. So how do I get over my nervousness. I’m pretty sure it’s normal to be scared at first. Whenever I think of my end goal it does get a little better. What do you guys think? I really want to be a pilot so how do I get over this fear?

I've been flying (for recreation) for 28 years. I have a personal rule: NEVER get in an aircraft whose pilot "knows no fear." SOME fear is necessary in order to help us avoid taking excessive risks in our flying. As you gain experience, you will get a better understanding of how to determine when your fears are justified, and how to select alternative courses of action when your original plan becomes too risky.

dell30rb · Jul 22, 2019

Surprised at some of these responses. I don't think i've had a student that did not get flustered by turbulence and gusts. It just takes some experience to get used to it.

Regarding a loan, you have to be 21 to get an ATP, at the OP's age that is enough time to get it the old fashioned way and not end up with a ton of debt. For older pilots accelerating the path to ATP by several years might be worth the investment (haven't done the math).

Sinistar · Jul 22, 2019

I feel like the OP may not be back but here's my take....

Jah-Christo Decembre said:
See the things is, i can’t really see me doing anything else but flying. But that’s not the point. I want to be a pilot. I’m going to be a pilot. Just want to know how to get over the fear!

Go up on a nice early evening with an instructor and have your log book. Do a lesson that focuses on engine out procedures. You will see how much time you have to recover and you will be surprised. In a relatively light airplane you may have as much as 1 minute per 1000ft above ground level (agl). You will often be cruising around at 2000...3000agl during training. Those 2+ minutes go by quick yet it is more than enough time to pitch for best glide, find a place to land, run the emergency procedure and still break off at 500agl and recover and go do it again.

Re: The loan. At a minimum, do not get the full loan. I would concentrate on getting your Private Pilot license first and then re-evaluate. At your age you should be knocking out different ratings over your summers off. PPL this summer. IR another summer. Commerical another summer. How you finance that should be decided as you go. Never, ever give money to flight school all up front.

What country are you in...heck, some of our advice may not be relevant if you are flying in Europe, etc?

EdFred · Jul 22, 2019

Half Fast said:
Of course, that will make getting a medical really complicated ....

Not sure why. Plenty of people have phobias, and he's not seeing them for depression/abuse/etc...

Sinistar said:
1 minute per 1000ft above ground level (agl).

More like 2 minutes

Cooter · Jul 22, 2019

Clip4 said:
Pilots will be replaced by technology over the next 25 years eliminating all the first officer positions.

Conductors are riding in train engines, decades after the caboose vamoosed.

Sinistar · Jul 22, 2019

EdFred said:
Not sure why. Plenty of people have phobias, and he's not seeing them for depression/abuse/etc...
More like 2 minutes

When I did my PPL in the 182 I recall best glide often being just shy of -900ft/min. Are 150,172,DA20 really half that rate?

MarkH · Jul 22, 2019

There are 2 parts of this question, flying concerns, and career advice. The best advice you can take is to isolate the 2, and you can only do that by focusing on flying.

My very first question is: Where are you located? This board tends to cater to US pilots, and if you are in the US, and you want to be a professional pilot DON'T TAKE THE LOAN.

First, you need to get over the discomfort of flying. I was 30 when I took my first flight, and I had the same feeling, but I wanted to keep flying, so I did. I overcame the fear by researching "What could go wrong" and studying how to avoid it.

For example, you specifically mention the fear of "Falling out fo the sky" (I had that too), it's a legitimate concern. In aviation, its called a Stall. Finding the right term for your fear is important, because when you call it "Falling out of the sky" its some ambiguous fear that cannot be addressed, but when you call it "A Stall" you realize that the PTS (and therefore your CFI) will address it as an area of emphasis so not only will you be taught to handle it, you will have to practice it until it is such a non-event that you "Fall out of the sky" on command, and then recover (it actually becomes fun).

The other concern is the loan, $81K means that you are choosing a career for the rest of your life at 16. I think that is a mistake, but even if it wasn't a mistake because you will be so committed to a career, it would still be a mistake because at 16, getting all of your ratings for 81K, will actually delay your entry into the airlines. Why? ATP minimums require that you are 23 to obtain the ATP license, but if you qualify for R-ATP, you can start your career at 21. And you can only qualify for R-ATP if you attend a qualifying program (https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/atp/media/Institutional_Authority_List.pdf) and most (maybe all) programs only apply if you enter with no more than an instrument rating.

My advice, talk to your parents about completing your Private Pilot out of pocket (or maybe with a much smaller loan), while working on that, research R-ATP programs and decide if that could be a better solution. If you want to go the airline route, and can log some time, and complete some core college credits like intro English, Math, and other core classes through AP, or Dual enrollment, you could have an R-ATP at 21. Not only would that save your parents the 81K loan, but it could also mean 2 more years of airline flying for you before retirement, which could be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars at the end of your career.

Tantalum · Jul 22, 2019

Damn... I got the short end of the stick <puts on grumpy old man hat>

-why are your parents the one taking the loan out? Isn't this your career path and your passion? How about you take on the debt and if needed have them cosign? Will you be prepared to pay them back the loan when you earning money?

-"scared of dying" seems a little hyperbolic, but if you are really are terrified of actually losing your life when flying then I'd give yourself a good 10-20 hrs or so of flying time, enough to get into some of the maneuvers, and see where you stand then. If you still have a "fear of dying" then flying might potentially not be for you.. save your parents the $81,000 and pursue another career path. You could earn enough money (fairly easily) to still take up flying as a hobby and work through your phobia on your own pace, without the pressure

Cheers and good luck

TLDR; @MarkH is right

*Disclaimer: Some fear is important in flying, it keeps you in check and aware of the risks. Too much fear though is worrisome to me, fear quickly gets you tunnel vision and you may end up turning into a vegetable when the s* hits the fan..

Tantalum · Jul 22, 2019

^presumably your parents already have other debts, a mortgage they're paying off, etc. Reminds me of this:

Rgbeard · Jul 22, 2019

Sorry, folks. I skipped to the TL;DR answer with my first post.

It's still probably accurate. I just needed to dance around a little to get there first.

Tantalum · Jul 22, 2019

skier said:
Wow, people here are being really negative.

I think it's because the OP's post reads a little entitled. "I'm 16. I want to be a pilot. My parents are taking out $81K loan. I have a fear of dying" I like flying because "landing lmfaooooo" - like... come on man. Give us more to work with.. that's some low hanging fruit right there. I agree with @MarkH, @Salty, and honestly @Rgbeard too to a point. What does "scared of dying" even mean... afraid of wings breaking off in turbulence. Getting lost? Etc. The people who have been nervous with their training (and who post much more thoughtful messages here about it) can usually pinpoint it and help find a way to remedy it. And what about flying do they love? Why not just PPL before they burden their parents with a sizable debt? The only answer we got was that they like "landing" and then whatever "lmfaoooo" means

??

-An older millennial who had to pay his own way and get through it on his own feeling #triggered. Get me my Cirrus, I need a safespace

Velocity173 · Jul 22, 2019

Got to get over the fear first. To quote the immortal Christopher Reeve (The Aviator)- “I know you can...point is, you’ve got to know you can.”

Crashnburn · Jul 22, 2019

Agree, an 81K loan at 16 isn't a good idea. I'd say do your initial training in an LSA to minimize costs, but they are more like kites than the DA40.

If I remember right, Bob Hoover got airsick when he flew, so his remedy was to go fly more, and do as many aerobatic maneuvers as he could. Eventually, he got over his airsickness, and when he went to primary training in the USAAF, he flew better than the instructors, so they made him one.

Maybe the you should get a part-time job to pay for lessons, at least through solo. By then, you'll know if actually flying is worth the time it takes to earn the money for the lessons.

That 81K loan is probably coming out of your parent's retirement plans. Co-signing still leaves them on the hook, and I don't know if you can legally borrow money younger than 18, w/o a co-signer, any way. So, keep paying for lessons with part-time job money.

Also, make plans to go to college for some STEM degree, just in case the career doesn't work out. In the military, they say test pilots are engineers who happen to have pilot licenses.

Regardless, good luck, and let us know what you end up doing.

tommy vercetti · Jul 22, 2019

Crashnburn said:
Agree, an 81K loan at 16 isn't a good idea. I'd say do your initial training in an LSA to minimize costs, but they are more like kites than the DA40.

If I remember right, Bob Hoover got airsick when he flew, so his remedy was to go fly more, and do as many aerobatic maneuvers as he could. Eventually, he got over his airsickness, and when he went to primary training in the USAAF, he flew better than the instructors, so they made him one.

Maybe the you should get a part-time job to pay for lessons, at least through solo. By then, you'll know if actually flying is worth the time it takes to earn the money for the lessons.

That 81K loan is probably coming out of your parent's retirement plans. Co-signing still leaves them on the hook, and I don't know if you can legally borrow money younger than 18, w/o a co-signer, any way. So, keep paying for lessons with part-time job money.

Also, make plans to go to college for some STEM degree, just in case the career doesn't work out. In the military, they say test pilots are engineers who happen to have pilot licenses.

Regardless, good luck, and let us know what you end up doing.