How not to **** off your CFI

J.G.

J.G.

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J.G.
As a CFI what are the things your students can do to make you not want to work with them?

My schedule changed and I've already ****ed off one, and might be on my way to inadvertently annoying another. All relating to work and schedule alignment.

If you're a student please share, if you're a CFI please share...I'd like to finally complete my VFR license and as I have had two I feel like I'm taking longer than I should.

Looking forward to replies.
 
Welp - I'm not a CFI, but I seem to have had pretty good success at not annoying any that I've used:

1) be prepared, don't just show up expecting to be spoon fed.
2) show up early to preflight so your lessons can start on time. Sometimes that's not going to work, if the schedule is such that the plane doesn't open up for you until your lesson time.
3) show up! If you have to cancel, do it with as much notice as possible. Other students can then use the plane and the instructor can also work something out. This is a common courtesy.
4) keep a positive attitude, you're going to get frustrated at times, but use those times as learning experiences.
5) understand that any of your schedule changes, and your life situation is yours to figure out and to work through, don't expect the CFI to do that for you.

CFIs will have their own list of student grievances, but 1-5 above have worked for me.
 
Thank you! Great points!

I'm on time, positive and I prep, but I think I need to be more cognizant of the feelings of others when talking about switching for scheduling purposes.

Matthew said:
Welp - I'm not a CFI, but I seem to have had pretty good success at not annoying any that I've used:

1) be prepared, don't just show up expecting to be spoon fed.
2) show up early to preflight so your lessons can start on time. Sometimes that's not going to work, if the schedule is such that the plane doesn't open up for you until your lesson time.
3) show up! If you have to cancel, do it with as much notice as possible. Other students can then use the plane and the instructor can also work something out. This is a common courtesy.
4) keep a positive attitude, you're going to get frustrated at times, but use those times as learning experiences.
5) understand that any of your schedule changes, and your life situation is yours to figure out and to work through, don't expect the CFI to do that for you.

CFIs will have their own list of student grievances, but 1-5 above have worked for me.
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Matthew said:
1) be prepared, don't just show up expecting to be spoon fed.
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This.

Also If doing a home study then write down questions or anything you need further explanation on. I was glad to have my students ask questions.

I only dumped one student. He owned his 150, and I saw him go fly solo without my endorsement. I asked him abut that flight, and he told me no one tells him when he can fly his plane.

I found out later other instructors had left him for the same reason, so that was it.

I lived on the airport in my Rv and had all the planes in sight at all times.
 
J.G. said:
Thank you! Great points!

I'm on time, positive and I prep, but I think I need to be more cognizant of the feelings of others when talking about switching for scheduling purposes.
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I would rather you were honest with me about that. I dont care if you switch CFIs and if yours got buttmad they were unprofessional titty-babies and you were right to switch.

I think "no surprises" is a good thing to aim for. :)
 
React to feedback with objectivity and appreciation.

Personalities vary. Some CFIs are quite forceful with feedback or try to find flaws, while others give critical feedback in the air and everything else during debrief. I've had a CFI slam on the brakes right after touch-down - which is mildly alarming. No incursion avoidance or deviation risk or anything like that, he just wanted to exit on a certain taxiway (untowered field) - no requirement to do so, just his preference. ‍
 
It's all common sense. I have had a couple of students not show up for a lesson and fail to call or text. I only get paid when I am teaching, so sitting around waiting is a waste of my time. And if you haven't prepared for the lesson, I may just cancel it myself. No instructor wants to spoon feed their students.

Changing instructors is your right. I always point out to new students that I work for them, and they can fire me anytime if they want to.
 
Yup, I dealt with absolute scheduling hell during private training. Constantly bounced between instructors, as they were all part-time CFIs in what little free time they had. Scheduling can be a real PITA for both parties. Rules of common courtesy apply; give as much notice as possible if changes/cancellations have to be made. They have lives and schedules too, and being pestered nonstop by students trying to book you up solid isn't super fun

Be upfront and honest about your availability, with both your CFI and yourself. Especially if you have a weird work schedule like I did. It's easy to get excited and jam your schedule full of flights for the next few weeks, then have to cancel 75% of them without much notice.

As others said, during times when you can't fly, keep up on your home studies and come to lessons as sharp as you can. Minimize the need to spend 40 mins of every lesson reviewing.
 
Hmmm replies via my phone don't seem to be working. Hopefully this goes through. Thank you for your thoughts everyone. Good things to keep in mind.

It is really helpful to know what when talking about switching due to scheduling differences, I'm not going against protocol or good manners for GA.
 
schmookeeg said:
I would rather you were honest with me about that. I dont care if you switch CFIs and if yours got buttmad they were unprofessional titty-babies and you were right to switch.

I think "no surprises" is a good thing to aim for. :)
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Thank you!
 
Second or third lesson, I accidentally pulled the mixture instead of the carb heat at 1,000 ft AGL. Scared the heck out of the CFI but he kept flying with me and I eventually got my PPL. I would avoid doing this though if you want to stay on the good side of things with your CFI. Besides that, it goes a long way to listen and internalize what your CFI is teaching you. My CFI drilled into me that it's better to have runway in front of you instead of behind you during takeoff and to reject intersection takeoffs for that reason. Every time ATC offered me an intersection takeoff and I rejected it, his smile went from ear to ear.
 
Oh my! Haha, yes I'll try to avoid doing that.

I did land in the nose wheel a few weeks ago. I'm glad he didn't ditch me for that one!

Chrisgoesflying said:
Second or third lesson, I accidentally pulled the mixture instead of the carb heat at 1,000 ft AGL. Scared the heck out of the CFI but he kept flying with me and I eventually got my PPL. I would avoid doing this though if you want to stay on the good side of things with your CFI. Besides that, it goes a long way to listen and internalize what your CFI is teaching you. My CFI drilled into me that it's better to have runway in front of you instead of behind you during takeoff and to reject intersection takeoffs for that reason. Every time ATC offered me an intersection takeoff and I rejected it, his smile went from ear to ear.
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Brush your teeth before flight. Gum or breath mint during. Yuck mouth in a trainer is inexcusable. Seriously, don’t take things personal, smile, learn. (And brush) :D
 
The only thing I have is don't cancel on them unless you are sick. When I was doing my training I cajoled my instructors for more training time each week. What helped was when I told them that when I commit to a lesson I will show up. Once they knew they could trust me they were more willing to give me more time each week. Remember, this is their living, if you cancel their paycheck is reduced.
 
Show up on time. Read the stuff the day before, whatever it is. Get plenty of rest. Don't try to rush things. Listen more than talk. Be patient. Ask questions at the end, especially if they don't give you feedback on your progress, good and bad. Don't make fun of their girlfriend.
 
Albany Tom said:
Show up on time. Read the stuff the day before, whatever it is. Get plenty of rest. Don't try to rush things. Listen more than talk. Be patient. Ask questions at the end, especially if they don't give you feedback on your progress, good and bad. Don't make fun of their girlfriend.
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You know I have to ask....
 
Had an instructor who had a gf that was bat sh** crazy. Like hearing voices in her head from the neighbor's dog crazy. I knew it wasn't a good idea to tease him about it when we were flying, but I just couldn't help it. It all worked out ok, though. I passed my checkride, and he broke up with her before she had the chance to make a lamp out of him.
 
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Oh my heavens. Welp, it takes all kinds to make the world go around, but some folks could start a new planet.

I knew more about my previous CFI than my current one and that seems like a good thing. (The not knowing.)

Albany Tom said:
Had an instructor who had a gf that was bat sh** crazy. Like hearing voices in her head from the neighbor's dog crazy. I knew it wasn't a good idea to tease him about it when we were flying, but I just couldn't help it. It all worked out ok, thought. I passed my checkride, and he broke up with her before she had the chance to make a lamp out of him.
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Based on the OP's original post he/she either no showed or cancelled at the last minute, probably more than once.
To a student, flying is cool but it's an extracurricular activity, and when conflict occurs they suddenly can't make their appointment.
To the instructor is their livelihood. They may have to commute some distance and they get paid $0 if you don't show up.

I tell prospective students they get one (read: ONE) no show. On the second one they can find someone else. Have the courtesy to call far enough in advance that I can fill the time with someone who wants to fly.
 
As a freelance CFI, I'd tell students that I might forgive any reasonable one-time excuse for late-show or cancellation (sick kids, house on fire, etc.) But, with chronic tardiness (a few would be consistently 15 minutes late, etc.) they would be billed from the scheduled start-time, or for last minute cancellations or no-shows, billed for an hour. (My dual CFI time was billed separately from the aircraft rental). That might be hard to work out with a typical flight school or FBO situation, but I suppose you could at least offer to pay the CFI his hourly rate?
 
My first CFI told me about one of her students that couldn’t go more than 30 minutes without a smoke break. That made for some interesting lessons. I don’t know how long that relationship lasted.

I’ve always reminded myself that flying for me is a hobby and flying for my CFIs is a job. And I don’t want to mess with someone else’s job, so I try to be as professional and courteous as possible.
 
I don’t even care about being prepared… if you want spoon feeding, fine. I earn more…

I don’t care if you don’t want to learn, and just want to pay to spend time with me. Time with me is a bargain at any price! (Joking!)

This leaves two things:

1) Do not no show. This has been covered.
2) Do not get upset with my service without reasonable cause. IE wondering why it’s taking so long to solo if you fly once a month, etc.

That being said, this IS a two way street. I have had bad days and not taught well… I offer options to rectify the situation (comp the instruction, freebies, what ever the situation dictates).
 
This reminds me of all the instructors I worked with that complained endlessly about dumb students that all made the same mistakes…

Why is THAT a problem? It was all the new, unique and UNFORSEEN (while kinda fun admittedly) stuff they did I found problematic! And scary….

So there I was, guarding against the inevitable high flare. Hmmm, not gonna flare high, looky him go. OH THIT, HE’S NOT GONNA FLARE!! AT ALL!! AT TWO THOUSAND FEET PER MINUTE RATE OF DESCENT (normal precautionary approach deal)!! I lapped the stick, firewalled the throttle and elevated my chin the ejection optimal 10-15 degrees and located the lower eject handle… We survived, got VERY quiet on the go!
 
Jim Carpenter said:
As a freelance CFI, I'd tell students that I might forgive any reasonable one-time excuse for late-show or cancellation (sick kids, house on fire, etc.) But, with chronic tardiness (a few would be consistently 15 minutes late, etc.) they would be billed from the scheduled start-time, or for last minute cancellations or no-shows, billed for an hour. (My dual CFI time was billed separately from the aircraft rental). That might be hard to work out with a typical flight school or FBO situation, but I suppose you could at least offer to pay the CFI his hourly rate?
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:yeahthat:

How to **** of your CFI. Have your CFI at airport waiting for you to show up, and never show up. Especially when the CFI has turned down two other students that wanted to fly during that time slot because it was already taken.

2nd Place, Call 10 minutes before the lesson and say you can't make it.


Stuff does happen, best way to not **** off the CFI is offer to pay him for his time any time you have to change your schedule with less than 24hrs notice. This will encourage you to only miss an appointment if you really need to, and the CFI doesn't have to wonder if he can make the car payment or not.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Study! I would send students home with a small 10 - 20 question test to do open book. I expect you to actually use the FAA books for the answers, not just google the answer. We would then go over them and discuss anything. I can tell when the student would just google the question for the answer. That is when I would get frustrated, because you have an answer, but don’t understand why that is the answer. Or when I say go home read up on something, if you have any questions write them down, we will go over the subjects. When week after week the student comes in, never having questions about anything they read tell me two things, they are absolutely great readers and get everything they read, or they didn’t read one page.

Second thing, don’t compare flight hours to other students. I had one guy constantly say “But joe soloed at this many hours, Joe did his checkride at this many hours.” That gets annoying. One student annoyed me so much with that I sent him for his checkride not being ready to pass. He failed.
 
aftCG said:
I tell prospective students they get one (read: ONE) no show. On the second one they can find someone else. Have the courtesy to call far enough in advance that I can fill the time with someone who wants to fly.
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I give zero no-notice no-shows. I shouldn't need to give a warning for common courtesy. Only had it happen once. I never flew with the person again. Now, I'm not completely heartless, when the scheduled time comes and you haven't shown up, I will call you to see if something's wrong. And if you answer, or call back reasonably promptly with a reasonable excuse, I will probably give you another chance. But if I don't hear from you at all? I'm done with you.

Jim Carpenter said:
As a freelance CFI, I'd tell students that I might forgive any reasonable one-time excuse for late-show or cancellation (sick kids, house on fire, etc.) But, with chronic tardiness (a few would be consistently 15 minutes late, etc.) they would be billed from the scheduled start-time, or for last minute cancellations or no-shows, billed for an hour. (My dual CFI time was billed separately from the aircraft rental). That might be hard to work out with a typical flight school or FBO situation, but I suppose you could at least offer to pay the CFI his hourly rate?
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In my first meeting with a client, I tell them that my billing starts at the scheduled time whether they are there or not. I've never had a problem with this, but then again I work mostly with aircraft owners, who are typically professionals in some field and understand the value of time. But I also tell them that if something comes up, just call me and we'll cancel, it's not a big deal. Most do offer to pay me for my time if that happens, but I think I've only accepted once or twice.

Tools said:
I don’t even care about being prepared… if you want spoon feeding, fine. I earn more…
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I agree with this in theory, but given that 1) I have enough clients, and 2) It's far more enjoyable to fly with someone who is motivated, that means in practice I have no desire to fly with those who won't prepare, do the homework, etc.
 
Don’t go outside your CFI for training - formal or informal. And if you do, don’t argue with your CFI based on what you “learned”. Stick with the plan and trust your instructor.
 
ateamer said:
Don’t go outside your CFI for training - formal or informal. And if you do, don’t argue with your CFI based on what you “learned”. Stick with the plan and trust your instructor.
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Meh. Sounds like an insecure instructor. I encouraged my students to learn from all possible sources and to challenge me on anything they'd like.

J.G. said:
As a CFI what are the things your students can do to make you not want to work with them?

My schedule changed and I've already ****ed off one, and might be on my way to inadvertently annoying another. All relating to work and schedule alignment.

If you're a student please share, if you're a CFI please share...I'd like to finally complete my VFR license and as I have had two I feel like I'm taking longer than I should.

Looking forward to replies.
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If you want to cancel on an instructor without ****ing them off, its not hard, just be sure to pay them for the time you blocked on their schedule (instructor & airplane). Did you no-show and not pay for it? Can you imagine other industries where that would be acceptable?

I never had to fire a lot of students. I did have one student that accused me of delaying their training so that I could make more money. I promptly pulled up his account on my laptop, then wrote him a check for every penny he ever paid me (instructor & aircraft rental) and informed him he'd be needing to find a new school.
 
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Agree on the above, with the caveat that the learner pilot ( :) ) needs to understand that there are plenty of "100 ways to do this" items with all of them valid -- so challenging your CFI thinking it's a "right vs. wrong" thing may not always go well -- but a receptive CFI will hopefully explain which one it is, and why he likes his particular way. :D
 
jesse said:
Meh. Sounds like an insecure instructor. I encouraged my students to learn from all possible sources and to challenge me on anything they'd like.


If you want to cancel on an instructor without ****ing them off, its not hard, just be sure to pay them for the time you blocked on their schedule (instructor & airplane). Did you no-show and not pay for it? Can you imagine other industries where that would be acceptable?
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Not insecure, just looking to keep things more efficient for the student. Get the basics and then expand after they get their certificate.
 
schmookeeg said:
Agree on the above, with the caveat that the learner pilot ( :) ) needs to understand that there are plenty of "100 ways to do this" items with all of them valid -- so challenging your CFI thinking it's a "right vs. wrong" thing may not always go well -- but a receptive CFI will hopefully explain which one it is, and why he likes his particular way. :D
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Plus, the instructor just might learn something. If you think you know a subject well, go try and teach it, you'll quickly realize how poorly you actually know the subject. Everyone has a lesson plan til' the questions punch you in the face.

I've taught physics professors, human doctors, animal doctors, plumbers, electricians, business owners, eldery, teenagers, aero engineers, software engineers, aircraft mechanics, car mechanics, tractor mechanics, cops, criminals, and everyone in between. I learned something about people and something about aviation from everyone of them.

Truth of the matter is - it was rare that I was teaching someone how to fly that didn't know some area related to flying better than I did. The physics professor and aero engineer understood the physics of flight better than I did. The mechanics understood the engine better than I did. The docs understood the aeromedical factors better. The teenagers learned faster. The elderly learned slower, but had a much larger knowledgebase. Some people could naturally navigate the area better than I could, hell, they have spent their entire life there!

Students respected me because I respected them and what they knew. I didn't try to be an expert on everything, and I certainly didn't try to "out expert" them on the areas they knew. I just helped them learn how to apply that knowledge to aviation and learned from them while they did so.
 
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jesse said:
Some people could naturally navigate the area better than I could, hell, they have spent their entire life there!
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I had exactly that! I had lived in the area for a couple years. My student had lived there his whole life. On the training XC flights, attempting to get him lost, I was unsuccessful. It was always "well there's old Bob's farm, and so that way is where they found that meth lab, and so (pointing) here we are on the map." And sure enough, he'd be right.
 
OK, I'll be the one ... :eek::D

I've had interaction with a bunch of CFI's and CFII's (flight reviews I don't use my original CFI). Here a couple that irked just off the top of my head ...

1. Minutes prior to test with the DPE, I don't need to hear you tell me," I've never had a student fail." That's not going to
add anything worth while to the process ...
2. This is old but, if I'm under the hood on foggles you're supposed to be watching for traffic, not updating
your IFR notebook or reading your phone
3. If PTS indicates a DPE can have the student do a power on stall with 20* bank, make sure the student has actually
done one prior to testing ... yes it was a non-event but that PTS tid bit slipped through un-noticed during training and
review
4. If you turn down the radio during foggle training and I didn't see you do it, return the volume prior to returning to the
airfield

Most of these were the same instructor, and all the others have been outstanding ...
 
danhagan said:
3. If PTS indicates a DPE can have the student do a power on stall with 20* bank, make sure the student has actually
done one prior to testing ... yes it was a non-event but that PTS tid bit slipped through un-noticed during training and
review
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For the Private Pilot certificate there is no longer a PTS. There is a much more comprehensive Airman Certification Standards which guides the DPE to evaluate three things for each maneuver - risk assessment, knowledge of the maneuver, and performance of the maneuver.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
For the Private Pilot certificate there is no longer a PTS. There is a much more comprehensive Airman Certification Standards which guides the DPE to evaluate three things for each maneuver - risk assessment, knowledge of the maneuver, and performance of the maneuver.
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I just glanced at the ACS (my test was 2007 a few years prior to ACS). I should have noticed the 20* bank on power on stalls in the old PTS, but didn't ... looking at the ACS it looks like they just "get near/first sign" of a stall and apply correction ... am I mistaken?
 
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