How many pre-buys did you have to do?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Taft, Jan 1, 2021.

  1. Taft

    Taft Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2020
    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Austin, TX

    Display name:
    Taft
    I’m getting back into aviation (after 10 years away) and starting to think about what I want to buy. I often hear people say that they spent years trying to buy their airplane. I’m curious to hear how long it took you to find the right plane - how many inspections and how long did it take?

    For context, I’m thinking something along the lines of an Arrow to re-train and do cross country flying eventually.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2021
  2. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2017
    Messages:
    4,179
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ and Ensenada, Mexico

    Display name:
    rgbeard
    Zero. Found it, flew it, bought it, flew it home the same day.
     
    GMascelli, guzziguy, Walboy and 3 others like this.
  3. GMascelli

    GMascelli En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    3,389
    Location:
    Ocean City, MD

    Display name:
    GaryM
    I didn’t get to fly home the same day for me. I did participate in the annuals. Thinking back I did have a prebuy on my Sundowner, our first plane.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2021
  4. ExpressJetter

    ExpressJetter Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2020
    Messages:
    74

    Display name:
    ExpressJetter
    1 Actual pre-buy, but I had a Total of 3 different planes scheduled..... The 2 that didn't happen was because I fished around and found out my own history on the plane or the owner and decided not to move forward.

    1. Mooney: The pilot / mechanic lost his Certs because he "Jerry Rigged" (actually his name was Jerry too coincidentally) a multi for a repo flight that his son was flying. Well when you use the wrong prop and improper fuel pump ect.... the flight didn't get too far. Couple that with your son not being Multi rated flying a multi a/c, the FAA wasn't too kind to Jerry, so I figured why would i want to buy a plane from this guy if he was willing to put his own family at risk like that.

    2. 2nd Mooney: Seller said it had 1 gear up in the 80's not under his ownership. Turns out that was 1 of 3, the last one being 4 years ago under the current owner.

    I just didn't want to take a risk with the above 2 and find out the hard way, even after a thorough pre-buy, that I was a test pilot for someone who lied to me.
     
    wheaties, Country Flier and X3 Skier like this.
  5. hotprops

    hotprops Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Messages:
    730

    Display name:
    hotprops
    Zero here as well. i bought from very trusted people in the aircraft business ,such as van bortal and pat at indy aero . in 12 purchases i never had a problem.and if i did they would have made good . the only 2 i got ...k.. on were impulse buys and i was at fault and should have known better.but i liked working on aircraft and that can be half the fun. there is probably some real junk out there now as the ga fleet is getting old . so i think there is great value in using a quality broker.there are alot of good ones out there.you just have to do your homework as to who you can trust.
     
  6. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    4,204
    Location:
    Alameda, CA

    Display name:
    Mike Brannigan
    I think multiple pre-buys (as someone who is often hired to perform them) would be a rare case. Most buyers take the squawk list I give them, and re-negotiate with the seller to have them addressed or the sale price reduced.

    I don't think many people drop the grand on the prebuy without intending to follow-through. In fact, I think my invoice is their final "come to jesus" moment that decides whether they proceed or not. :D
     
    N747JB, Jim K and Taft like this.
  7. jimhorner

    jimhorner Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    864
    Location:
    Santa Clara

    Display name:
    Jim Horner
    Two pre-buys for me. First was on a really nice looking Cessna 185. The prebuy revealed significant internal corrosion, broken ribs in the horizontal stabilizer, and a lot of bad rivets covered up by the fresh new coat of paint among other issues. The seller would not budge on the price after the prebuy, so I walked. The plane sold about a month later, and I highly doubt the seller shared the results of my prebuy with the eventual buyer.

    The second pre-buy was more successful. I paid to have the West Coast Bellanca expert fly to Texas to do the prebuy on a 1989 Bellanca Super Viking. Even though the plane had been maintained in Texas by one of the four recognized expert shops in the country, I wanted to have the oppinion of someone who had not maintained the plane. He found nothing of significance, and we closed the deal that day.

    I highly recommend a good prebuy. I saved a lot of pain and headache on the 185 by finding out those issues before closing the deal. And, the relationship with my Viking mechanic is still going strong 8 years later.
     
    Let'sgoflying!, GRG55 and Taft like this.
  8. Joe_B1

    Joe_B1 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2020
    Messages:
    816
    Location:
    Near KCON

    Display name:
    Joe_B
    Did not do a pre buy but mine was just out of annual so I spoke with the A&P who told me it was fine. Next years annual I told my mechanics to go through it. They found quite a few discrepancies, cost a bunch to make it all right. Nothing horrible, just lot's of little things that added up. In hindsight, I probably could have negotiated a few grand off of the price. Guess you have to expect to spend a few grand on a 40 year old plane to get things the way you like.
     
    Rgbeard and N747JB like this.
  9. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    4,414
    Location:
    Illinois

    Display name:
    NRG
    One for each plane I've bought.
     
  10. X3 Skier

    X3 Skier En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,386
    Location:
    I19 & SBS

    Display name:
    Geezer
    Partner and I looked at three Ercoupes before we found one worth a prebuy. We went and looked No 4, decided it was worth further checkout. Our A&P/IA did a day’s worth of inspections, paper review and test flights with each of us and we bought it. Since then we replaced the nose strut, added ADSB Out and all has been good. Not bad for a 75 yr old airframe.

    Cheers
     
  11. Country Flier

    Country Flier Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2019
    Messages:
    678

    Display name:
    CFL
    I've bought/owned quite a few planes over my several decades of flying, but I've only ever walked away from one purchase due to a bad pre-buy. I expect a pre-buy to find things wrong, but that one problem pre-buy indicated a dishonest owner (pencil whipped annuals, attempts to hide defects instead of repairing them, etc). I wasn't about to try to negotiate with someone that has no integrity.
     
    schmookeeg and Taft like this.
  12. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach Gone West

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    9,306

    Display name:
    Aztec Flyer
    Took me about 11 months to find the right Aztec. I went through scans of the logs and based decision not to proceed on other candidate airplanes primarily on that information (although the "quirky" behaviour of a few alleged sellers factored into a few of those move-on decisions). I always have a conditional deal signed with the seller before I'll spend money on a pre-purchase inspection. If the plane is "as represented" I believe it is fair seller should know they have a done deal.
     
    hotprops and X3 Skier like this.
  13. X3 Skier

    X3 Skier En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,386
    Location:
    I19 & SBS

    Display name:
    Geezer
    We did that with the one we bought. The first three we just thanked the owners and moved on.

    Cheers
     
    GRG55 likes this.
  14. Marshall Alexander

    Marshall Alexander Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2018
    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    Oklahoma City, Oklahoma

    Display name:
    malexander
    I didn't get a pre-buy inspection per se on the last airplane my brother and I bought. The owner told me about the last guy that was interested in buying it, and gave me his name and phone number. He was an A&P from about 900 miles away and had driven up to look it over, and actually put money down on it. On his way home, he and his wife decided it really wasn't what they needed/wanted. I called the guy and spent probably 30 minutes on the phone with him, and he told me it'd be a great airplane and the price was fine.

    I could tell, after talking and meeting with the seller, he was on the up and up. It was a great and fun transaction. Then I got to fly it 13.8 hours home.
     
  15. David Loftus

    David Loftus Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2021
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Johns Creek, GA

    Display name:
    dmloftus
    Three out of town visits, one pre~buy that was successful. Although there were a couple of issues that I insisted on keeping funds in escrow to rectify.
     
  16. jimhorner

    jimhorner Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    864
    Location:
    Santa Clara

    Display name:
    Jim Horner
    Oh absolutely. For both of the planes on which I had a prebuy done, I had an agreed upon price, insurance arranged, and financing setup. The prebuy was the last step in the process. One of the planes failed the prebuy, but the other passed. I signed the final paperwork the same day on that one.
     
  17. Jumpmaster

    Jumpmaster Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2014
    Messages:
    582

    Display name:
    AbnJag
    One and 1/2. First one got only 1/2 way through when the IA called and said I was wasting my time and money. Second one was completed and I bought that plane. Overall, I made 3 offers on 3 different planes. The third one I got beat out by $500. We had reached an agreement on price and we’re trying to ink the deal when another buyer offered more. However, during the pre-sale flight, a the club President with whom I was dealing, left the tow bar on the nose wheel and managed to take off with it. He called me a few weeks later and apologized for his actions. I saw the plane for sale about 6-7 months later with a new engine and prop, and a substantially higher price. All for $500.
     
    ETres likes this.
  18. TheFB

    TheFB Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2017
    Messages:
    330

    Display name:
    TheFB
    Had one on a plane I decided to walk from, one on the first I bought, and a more cursory one on my next plane.
     
  19. DFH65

    DFH65 En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,550

    Display name:
    DFH65
    One official prebuy. I didn't buy the plane on the guys recommendation. In hindsight I think it may have been a mistake. After talking to another A&P friend most of the stuff was really nitpicking. The price was cheap and the plane was local. It was priced such that the airplane was probably worth the sum of it's parts. This is a common theme with me. :) The second one we had an A&P friend do a quick once over but the price was low enough again that the plane was worth the sum of it's parts and we pulled the trigger on it. I have flown it 96.7 hours since we bought it a year and 4 months ago. 1.9 hours yesterday. So far there haven't been any major surprises for an airplane in that price range and of that age with a partner it has been relatively easy to deal with.

    Since I do quite a bit of wrenching on airplanes at the local warplane museum I feel pretty comfortable with most of the basic non-type specific stuff.
     
  20. Kristin

    Kristin Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2013
    Messages:
    1,539
    Location:
    Twin Cities

    Display name:
    Kristin (The Aviatrix)
    As someone who does a lot of pre-buys, I recommend looking at the logs first. They are easy to photograph and more and more sellers are getting onboard with the need to do that. It is very rare for me to review logs which look fine and then find a dealbreaker on the physical inspection. Usually if something unexpected is found, an adjustment in price or commitment to repair seals the deal.

    As for time to find one, it depends on what you are looking for. The Arrow is fairly common, so it shouldn't take more than 6 months. Rarer aircraft can take longer to find a good one.
     
    Taft and GRG55 like this.
  21. Torque beast

    Torque beast Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    227

    Display name:
    Bryan
    One pre buy but looked at several planes. Each model has its quirks/problems. Familiarize yourself with what to look for and if it all looks good to you then do a pre buy to dig in deeper. Some people don’t care to learn about the planes they fly so they put 100% faith in the mechanics that work on them. I have a really good mechanic for mine but it doesn’t keep me from going through everything with a fine toothed comb. I may be weird but I feel better if I see and know for myself and if I don’t know or understand I ask.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  22. mandm

    mandm Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,281
    Location:
    Chicago

    Display name:
    Michael
    Wanting a prebuy and getting it done is two different things. I found a plane and called a few mechanics. Sent the logs over, no one got back to me. So maybe they didn’t want to do the prebuy or they are too busy. Anyway a well priced plane will sell almost immediately if not within a couple days (even after hours, on weekends or holidays). It’s a crazy market out there. Then other planes just sit, when you do your research you see the ones that just sit and no price adjustments either. Weird.
     
  23. Snowmass

    Snowmass Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2019
    Messages:
    740
    Location:
    S.E. Arizona highlands

    Display name:
    Arturo
    One of six buys. The condition of the other planes was obviously excellent. Actually the one that was inspected was a 182 from a dry region with only 1000 TT so the prebuy was just an extra precaution.
     
  24. Kelvin

    Kelvin En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,185
    Location:
    Garner NC

    Display name:
    KTD
    I have owned three planes.

    The first one was from Van Bortel. The Van Bortel 'pre-buy" is that they fly it to you and your team looks over it...if you like it, pay them, if not, they fly home.

    The plane was an '05 172SP and it had 64 hours on it. I managed to talk them into letting me fly with a CFII from Arlington to NC to do the 'pre-buy'.

    What a useless pre-buy :D:D:D:D

    ...the plane was pristine and still under warranty...

    I did get a SERIOUS cross country that started when I had about 8 hours in my logbook.

    Good times!!!

    The second plane was brand new...an -07 182T...with a full warranty...from Air Care in Rocky Mount NC. Stellar company. They were the most hassle free to deal with of anybody I have ever dealt with in aviation.

    The third plane got a pre-buy that was well done, fair and every thing got addressed by a very reputable seller (Skytech in Rock Hill SC).

    I'd buy from them all again; Skytech, Air Care or Van Bortel in the drop of a hat.
     
    GRG55 likes this.
  25. sourdough44

    sourdough44 En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    3,022
    Location:
    Wisconsin

    Display name:
    WI Flyer
    I bought 3 planes over the years, never did an official ‘pre-buy’ on any of them. I did talk to the maintainers & evaluated the seller. Can’t say I was really surprised afterwards. YMMV of course.
     
  26. texasclouds

    texasclouds En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2018
    Messages:
    3,347
    Location:
    Bryan, Texas

    Display name:
    Mark
    I looked for a year or so, joined the model association, then got a call from someone a few month later saying he wanted to sell. I did a 30 min test flight, looked through logbooks, and bought it. No pre-buy inspection. I could tell it was nice and trusted the seller.