How fast do you think this would sell?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Rykymus, May 8, 2018.

  1. Rykymus

    Rykymus Line Up and Wait

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    I have a 98 Archer, 6600 TT/1850 SNEW, that I bought in 2014 to finish my PPL, get my IR, and build some hours. All that behind me now, I'm gearing up to get my ME and then buy a twin in a few years. My plan is to rent a twin locally to train and build hours in, so that when I finally buy my own twin, I have some hours behind me. (Both for my own piece of mind and for the insurance company's.) Since we moved to the DFW area, I haven't been flying anywhere near enough to justify owning a plane, especially since it isn't the plane for my future missions. (Which will be long-haul travel with 2 to 5 people and medium baggage.)

    We hadn't planned on buying a house here just yet, as we spent a LOT of money moving ourselves, and our business from CA to TX, and wanted to build up our reserves again. But a great house on a full-acre lot IN the city, minutes from everything we need came on the market and we had to make an offer. Problem is, we're going to have to come up with about $65k in 3 weeks to close, (assuming our offer is accepted) and we only have about $20k in liquid assets at the moment. So, I'm hoping to sell the plane on the cheap to move it quick. I paid $80 for it, and spent another $10k bringing it up to what I thought was airworthy. (Not what the previous AP/IA thought, which was pretty bad.) I've replaced quite a few things over the few years I've had her, but I don't expect to get any of that back. I have all the logs, but the ones that are prior to the current engine are disorganized. (My AP get all logs from the beginning of the new engine nice and orderly, including all AD status.)

    It has a few things that I planned to fix at the next annual (which was to be in June), and I would discount the price to cover those repairs, and a few thousand toward the cost of getting it ADSB compliant. On top of that, I would discount it by another $10k. So, I'm hoping that if I sell it for $60k, on the condition that the buyer can finish the deal within a couple weeks (so that I have the money by close) that the discounts would make the buyer feel a little more comfortable about having to move quickly. I have no problem if they want to get it inspected first, as long as they can get it done in my time frame.

    Am I attempting the impossible?
     
  2. jallen0

    jallen0 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have no idea but post some pictures and see if anyone gets emotional about wanting to buy it.
     
  3. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    You have a high time 1998 Archer for sale with a run out engine and crappy logbooks. The plane also needs a transponder update and unspecified $$$$ in repairs. Offer to sell $60k. You make zero reference to avionics onboard or interior/paint condition.

    The plane is worth $60-65K. I would ‘t expect a stampede to buy.
     
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  4. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    How long was it on the market before you bought it back in 2014?
     
  5. Rykymus

    Rykymus Line Up and Wait

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    I have no idea. It was only on the field I trained at for a few days before I inquired. But it could have been up for sale elsewhere for all I know.

    Paint is about an 8/10. Interior 6/10

    I'm seeing much older Archer IIs, similar airframe and engine time, for considerably more. Of course, that just means that's what the owner thinks it's worth. Like I said, I don't really know. That's why I'm asking.

    As far as the log books, they are there, just the ones on the previous engine are not very well organized.

    Below is the rest of the details, if it helps with setting a price. I could actually go lower if I had to, but I'm not sure I'd want to.

    98 PIPER ARCHER III
    N9294Q SN: 2843122
    Airframe: 6642 Engine: 1842 SNEW
    IFR Rules
    Dual VOR
    STEC 30 w/Alt Hold
    GPSS
    GNS 430
    Digital Tach
    Digital Volt/Amp Multi-meter
    Backup Electric Vacuum Pump
    All ADs current
    No Known Damage History
    Last Annual was May of 2017 (So she’s due)
    Compressions at last Annual: 73/80-74/80-76/80-76/80
    Replaced Since Purchase in April 2014:
    Starter (Skytec) Alternator 2015
    Battery (Sealed)
    Vacuum pump (Engine-driven)
    Cabin door strut (with Door Steward)
    AI
    Tach
    Tires
    Wingtip Landing light covers
    Wingtip Landing lights LED
    Front Seatbelts
    Baggage Straps
    Left Aileron (had a small crease that wasn’t explained in logs)
    Vertical Card Compass (replaced wet compass)
    Wingtip strobe bulbs
    Front Nose gear Strut seals

    Comes with:
    Cowl Plugs
    Reflective Window covers
    Canopy Cover

    The following will need work soon:
    500 hr Mag inspection (in about 20 hrs)
    Right Main Gear strut seals need to be replaced
    Intermittant problem with AI needs to be investigated (Goes wonky above 6k but vacuum is fine) Suspect problem with Vacuum line connection to AI (DG works fine)
    May want to replace front windshields in a few years, as there are some scratches inside (mostly on pilots side) that are distracting when sun hits them just right
    Interior needs work (Carpet, seats, side panels)
    Is not ADSB Compliant

    History:
    This plane spent the first 5 yrs of its life as a trainer for a pilot puppy mill in AZ for Lufthansa. Was bought by a guy in Fresno CA who had it for about a year. After that, it went to a Doctor in San Francisco, where it was in the West Valley Flying Club at PAO. When I met her, she had been sitting at the airport I trained at for about a year (KTCY), only being flown once a month. I bought her about halfway through my PPL training in 2014 and dumped a lot of money into her. (And I paid her off in 2 years) I kept it in a hangar at KSCK the entire time I owned her. (Until we moved to Texas.) I used it to complete my PPL and IFR training, as well as log a couple hundred hours of cross-country trips all over CA, along with about 20 hrs of IMC, putting about 500 hrs on her myself. Moved to DFW area Nov 2017, and now need to sell her quickly to be able to close on our dream house. (Wife let me buy a plane to learn to fly, now I need to repay the favor.) I want to move on to twins in a couple years anyway, and plan to rent them to train and build hours, so it doesn’t make sense to keep this plane any longer. I’m not going to have the time to fly her much over the next few years anyway, and I’d rather she go to someone that will get a lot of use out of her. She’s been a good plane for me to get my training. She’s still got good compressions, and I have no doubt she’ll go well past TBO if taken care of the way I’ve been taking care of her. (West Valley Flying club took pretty good care of her as well.) I will take into account the estimated costs of the repairs that I know should/need to be done, (that I was planning on doing) as well as making her ADSB compliant. I will also price below market to sell quickly. I need to sell her in 2 weeks . I believe she is worth $90k, but will sell her for $65 if the buyer can close the deal by May 23, 2018. She is currently tied down at KTKI on the south tie-downs facing Taxiway Alpha. I work from home for myself, so my schedule is flexible and I can meet up with anyone that wants to take a look and fly her. I can even fly her to meet up with you anywhere in the greater DFW area.

    Hope that helps clarify things. Advice on value would be appreciated.
     
  6. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Final Approach

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    List it and see what turns up. Value is subjective. IMO anything is only monetarily worth what someone else willing to pay or borrow for. Personal or emotional value is another subject entirely. Good luck with the sale. Agreed you rather sell it than let it decay due to disuse.
     
  7. Z06_Mir

    Z06_Mir Pattern Altitude

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    To be honest the engine time is a bit of a turn off but... if you're serious in selling it send me a PM with a number you're thinking of. And photos.. @bijanmaleki
     
  8. bijanmaleki

    bijanmaleki Pre-Flight

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    As my wife said above, we are in the market for another Archer, can you PM me your Phone #? Any other pictures?
     
  9. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    As you can see,pictures can make it more appealing. Good luck.
     
  10. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Only real issue I see is the high time engine.

    At 60 with a TBOed engine it might be a while.
     
  11. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    “Interior needs work (Carpet, seats, side panels)” is a 6?
     
  12. nrpetersen

    nrpetersen Line Up and Wait

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    If you want to sell it quickly, get a lot of good pictures of many many details, including all bad areas. Also take pictures of each page of log book entries and other paperwork. Make up a DVD of all these pictures so you can avoid tire kickers etc. Plan on mailing a DVD to serious inquiries so that potential buyers don't have to expend a lot of energy. DVDs are cheap to create and send. The usual 5 crappy pictures that show only the outside and the panel don't attract much attention. Serious buyers want to know what they are getting in to before they invest the time and money to initiate a purchase.

    That's if the Archer is a good one even though the engine is high time since new.

    You can't sell a secret.
     
  13. Rykymus

    Rykymus Line Up and Wait

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    I'll do everything I can, but I only have 18 days. If I can't move it buy then, I have to bail on buying the house or risk losing $10k in earnest money. I'm more than willing to mark the plane down to cover the cost of known repairs that need to be made, and to compensate for the high time engine. How low I can afford to go will depend on the home appraisal that will take place later this week. The higher the appraisal, the less I'll have to come up with in 18 days.

    We weren't really planning on trying to buy right now, but an amazing property appeared and we have to try. A property like this, in the city, doesn't come up very often, especially not at this price.

    BTW: How do you PM someone here? Is that the same as starting a conversation.
     
  14. rtk11

    rtk11 Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Can you take a loan on the plane to pay the balance needed on the home?
     
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  15. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route

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    If you really want to unload it quick, for the right price you might find a broker who would by it off you.
     
  16. BrianNC

    BrianNC En-Route

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    Yep.

    How about a good exterior pic, interior pic, and panel pic here?
     
  17. Z06_Mir

    Z06_Mir Pattern Altitude

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    Yes, I just sent you a message :)
     
  18. deyoung

    deyoung Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Less than three weeks to sell a plane seems like a hard ask in general. I don't have a good sense for the value of yours in detail, but overall it seems fair. The problem, of course, is that "great deal" sells fast. "Fair" sells, but not as fast. Someone else suggested a broker; that might be worth exploring (if Miranda doesn't buy it :) ), though I don't know how they work---if they need to get paid before you do that might not help much.
     
  19. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    The guy I didn't buy an amphib from sold it in less than three weeks. He took a low cash offer while I was trying to arrange a prebuy. So it can be done. Just get it out there. Take lots of high quality pictures and plaster it everywhere. You might also want to get an appraisal and then expect to significantly undercut it.
     
  20. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    60k is an amazing price for the aircraft. I suspect you could get over 100 with a new engine if you weren't selling in distress. It should move very quickly.

    Not that I'm wanting to ruin anyone's deal, but could you finance your purchase for a short time, then sell the plane at full price?
     
  21. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    You lost me at house in the city.

    $ = sells fast
    $$ = sells kinda quick, but maybe not
    $$$ = doesn't really sell fast at all
    $$$$ = sits on TAP for a year
    $$$$$ = honey, really, I am trying to sell the plane.
     
  22. ifly4fun

    ifly4fun Line Up and Wait

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    I had a wire transfer in 48 hours sight unseen.. it can be done.
     
  23. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Final Approach

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    to sell, or to buy? Your 140 thread shows it took you from October to March to sell the 140. Bit more than 48 hours no?
     
  24. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Plan on not selling it unless you're willing to totally lowball the price. Aircraft as assets are not always easily liquidated. You'd need a real fire sale to get it gone that quickly.
     
  25. ifly4fun

    ifly4fun Line Up and Wait

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    From the time the first call was received from the buyer to cash in the bank. The idea being - Once the price was right, it took 48 hrs. I received the call about 3 hours after I set the final selling price. The point being, if he sets a price to sell, it can be done. No prebuy, no inspection, done.
     
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  26. gkainz

    gkainz Final Approach

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    We bought our last Bonanza in 18 hours ... 1 hour after it was posted on BeechTalk we contacted the seller, arrived the next morning to inspect and secured the deal before lunch.
     
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  27. Kansas Flyer

    Kansas Flyer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    We found and bought a Cardinal in about a week. It was posted on Barnstormers on a Wednesday, we went to look at it on Saturday where we made the deal, and flew it home the next Wednesday. We didn't even fly it before buying due to crappy weather that day, just inspected it and ran the engine a little bit. A deal can be done pretty quick if the price is right, especially if the buyer lives within reasonable driving distance.

    You might check into selling on ebay. A surprising number of aircraft are sold there and they aren't all junk. We once bought a Cherokee off there.
     
  28. Rykymus

    Rykymus Line Up and Wait

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    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  29. JP11283

    JP11283 Filing Flight Plan

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    Sam D, CC268 and Bobanna like this.
  30. Rykymus

    Rykymus Line Up and Wait

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    Yeah, I tried everything and cannot get pics posted.
     
  31. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    use flickr. Photobucket is trash
     
  32. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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  33. CC268

    CC268 Final Approach

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    You know you can upload photos directly from your computer to here right? You don’t need to upload to photobucket, etx
     
  34. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Interesting suggestion. Pop it on eBay with a ton of pics/logs and put a low reserve on it (lowest you’re willing to take minus $10ish grand). The only issue with this is it ties the plane up for the length of the auction. Well that and I guess the buyer could still back out, it’s happened before.
     
  35. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    tree fiddy.....and not a penny more. o_O
     
  36. Sinistar

    Sinistar En-Route

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    Not sure if this will help but it worked for us selling our Aeronca Chief:

    1. Take a crap load of decent pictures, not dark or shadowy or blurry.
    2. Take good quality photos of the airworthiness certificate, airplane logs, engine logs and prop logs.
    3. Upload them all to a drive or cloud that you can share.
    4. List it everywhere - we had a cash deposit from a craigslist buyer in days and sale finished under 3wks. We even found the 182 on Craigslist. I'm not saying to skip TAP, Controller, Barnstormers, etc..but also list on CL, Etc.
    5. Print flyers and hang them up everwhere. Include 2-3 pics on the flyer and list the drive/cloud link along with your contact info.

    ...if you are not camera, Internet or print savvy hire a kid to help you out. Get 1-3 done tonite. Work #4 tomorrow. Do number 5 over the weekend.

    Maybe call a couple flight schools or bigger clubs, etc.
     
  37. BrianNC

    BrianNC En-Route

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    Nice plane.
     
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  38. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    Has it sold
     
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  39. ZeroPapaGolf

    ZeroPapaGolf Line Up and Wait

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    Thankfully with the advent of the internet, there’s no need to be making and mailing DVDs. All those photos and log pages can be uploaded for everyone to see instantly without having to pester you for a snail-mail disk.
     
  40. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Pattern Altitude

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    Yup. Post all the pictures on a professional site like SmugMug. https://secure.smugmug.com/signup?Coupon=npjDz5Dspuo7c

    Post so many pictures you think it'll be annoying to look at. It'll show you're not trying to hide anything. If you don't want to take pictures of the logbooks, you can get them scanned for you. Post the PDFs on the same site.