How do you find the air to air frquency?

jd21476

jd21476

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jd21476
So as a student pilot a fews years back I was always told that air to air was 122.75 for anywhere in the Country, but then recently I was told that it is actually different in the Los Angeles area and some pilots use a different frequency.

Ive never flown x-country without being on FF so I never put the air to air frequency to the test and the only time I use it is in the San Diego area.

So if I didnt know about 122.75, how would you find it using Foreflight? Also, is it true there is a different frequency for Los Angeles?
 
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So 123.45 was the frequency they were talking about because I flew out to Catalina and back. Now I see why, because it was over the ocean so its an Oceanic air to air frequency
 
There is no frequency for casual conversation between aircraft. Air-to-air frequencies are for operational issues such as formation flying, flight testing, and relaying weather and safety information in oceanic frequencies.

I doubt LA to Catalina would qualify as oceanic for the purposes of using 123.45 as air-to-air. That does start until we are transferred to oceanic ATC with is a lot farther offshore than Catalina.

In some congested airspace there is a designated frequency, which you could call an air-to-air frequency, for traffic coordination along the lines of a CTAF. An example of that are the sector frequencies in the SFAR 50-2 airspace over the Grand Canyon. Such frequencies should be on the sectional, SFAR, or TAC charts. You'll probably find other areas where local users have an unofficial air-to-air frequency but these are likely not approved and that use is not in compliance with FCC regulations.
 
Has air to air always been 122.75? Seems like back in the 1960's we used 122.9. At that time the folks I flew with had 90 channel radios at best and some of them had coffee grinders. My first radio was a Narco VT2N with something like 9 or 10 transmit frequencies. It was barely one step better than opening the window and using a megaphone.
 
jd21476 said:
So as a student pilot a fews years back I was always told that air to air was 122.75 for anywhere in the Country, but then recently I was told that it is actually different in the Los Angeles area and some pilots use a different frequency.

Ive never flown x-country without being on FF so I never put the air to air frequency to the test and the only time I use it is in the San Diego area.

So if I didnt know about 122.75, how would you find it using Foreflight? Also, is it true there is a different frequency for Los Angeles?
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I don’t see on Foreflight anywhere a reference to 122.75 being a general use air to air Frequency. For other air to air freq’s in certain areas look at the VFR Charts, Sectional or TAC. There are also some in the Chart Supplement, Special Notices, starts at page 400 in the Southwest Supplement. Here’s some examples.

upload_2021-10-10_17-4-57.png

upload_2021-10-10_17-6-45.png

upload_2021-10-10_17-12-15.png
 
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jd21476 said:
So 123.45 was the frequency they were talking about because I flew out to Catalina and back. Now I see why, because it was over the ocean so its an Oceanic air to air frequency
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Larry in TN said:
I doubt LA to Catalina would qualify as oceanic for the purposes of using 123.45 as air-to-air. That does start until we are transferred to oceanic ATC with is a lot farther offshore than Catalina.
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I concur. According to the US-DOT policy document, you have to be out of range of VHF ground stations. Catalina has both a VOR and an ASOS.
upload_2021-10-10_10-43-26.png
 
Larry in TN said:
I started flying in 1981 and it's been 122.75 for as long as I can remember.


122.9 is Multicom. CTAF at airports that don't have any other CTAF frequency assigned to them.
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In 1976 when I started 122.9 was multicom and air-to-air. 122.75 came a short time later.
 
Specifically, back in the day, "multicom" allowed air-to-air (this is the multi part as opposed to uni in unicom).
 
jd21476 said:
So 123.45 was the frequency they were talking about because I flew out to Catalina and back. Now I see why, because it was over the ocean so its an Oceanic air to air frequency
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123.45 is known as 'fingers'. Be careful with fingers...

 
Where I'm at 122.75 is used by flight school students flying solo and needing to describe in detail each maneuver while in "the practice area". Since there are several part 141 schools in the area, 122.75 is just about unuseable.

122.9, multi-com is used to advise traffic arriving and departing several remote airports and seasonal strips in the area. It gets used a lot by pilots operating out in the hills in the way air-to-air was probably meant to be used.

The San Juans used to also use 122.9. But, they recently got their own multicom freq of 128.25. Its nice to know that Bonzo Beaver is blasting straight south out of East Sound when you've got sight-seeing passengers aboard, headed there for lunch.
 
Bell206 said:
http://steinmetz.org/peter/flying/FingersFreq.html
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Funny :)

I have been a licensed pilot and a licensed amateur radio operator for 50 years. Once upon a time, the FCC would actually police the ham bands...now, it is not gonna happen unless the offender is using profanity, transmitting way too much power, and harassing others long term. Even then, it takes many months to even years before action is taken.

Same thing applies to someone issuing a complaint to the FAA.

If two pilots are talking without using n numbers, how are you going to verify who they are ? I am not saying this is legal, but it is realty.
 
It usually takes some legitimate user of the frequency to push the issue. I've not found the FCC (though it's been a few years) to be unsympathetic in trying to hunt down bandits on radio frequencies that affect things on a regular basis.
 
flyingron said:
It usually takes some legitimate user of the frequency to push the issue. I've not found the FCC (though it's been a few years) to be unsympathetic in trying to hunt down bandits on radio frequencies that affect things on a regular basis.
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Ron, I'm not saying it never happens, just that it has to be a clear case of abuse over time. I don't think occasional use of 123.45 is going to land you in prison :)
 
Doug Reid said:
Ron, I'm not saying it never happens, just that it has to be a clear case of abuse over time. I don't think occasional use of 123.45 is going to land you in prison :)
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Paging Mr. Weir, Mr. Jim Weir.
 
Firepac said:
So is it 123.45 or is it 122.75?
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AOPA says:
Legally, for air-to-air communications between private, fixed-wing aircraft, there is just one authorized frequency: 122.75 MHz. For general aviation helicopters: 123.025 MHz. Gliders and hot air balloons share 123.3 and 123.5 MHz.

4-1-11. Designated UNICOM/MULTICOM Frequencies

Air-to-air communication
(private fixed wing aircraft).
122.750

Air-to-air communications
(general aviation helicopters).
123.025

Aviation instruction, Glider, Hot Air Balloon (not to be used for advisory service).
123.300
123.500
 
In northeast PA there is a lot of chatting on 123.45. Some yahoo is always announcing his probably inflated ground speed on it. I monitor it because the motor chutes near my strip use it.
 
flyingron said:
Paging Mr. Weir, Mr. Jim Weir.
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I know the whole Jim Weir story..it does not change my stand one little bit. I like Jim...I have several of his radio kits. I think testing on 123.45 was a bad idea ....maybe a better idea in a less populated part of the country, or at a different time of day.

Any active pilot should be aware that lots of air to air chit chat occurs on 123.45.
Whether it is a designated air to air frequency does not change reality.
I get annoyed at the chit chat on 122.8 sometimes, but I have not heard of any local pilots being arrested for saying hello to Bill or Bob and asking where they are flying for lunch.
 
During my DLF days, our dedicated formation interplane victor frequencies were often jammed up by the mexican taxi cabs on the other side of the border chit chatting and asking each other about lunch plans. As a bilingual IP it always gave me a chuckle, and it made me hungry just then for some reason. :D
 
flyingron said:
It usually takes some legitimate user of the frequency to push the issue. I've not found the FCC (though it's been a few years) to be unsympathetic in trying to hunt down bandits on radio frequencies that affect things on a regular basis.
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My limited experience with this in ham radio and public safety radio, I agree. If it's a safety issue, public safety or airplane, then they'll take a look at it. If it's just an annoyance, not so much. Accidental use? Don't think there is enough manpower to be able to care about it.
 
Doug Reid said:
I know the whole Jim Weir story..it does not change my stand one little bit. I like Jim...I have several of his radio kits. I think testing on 123.45 was a bad idea ....maybe a better idea in a less populated part of the country, or at a different time of day.
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Here we go again. Flight Test Station freqs (such as 123.45) are not selected by the user, they are assigned. If I was not also assigned a backup freq I can't (legally) change freqs if an unauthorized user is on my freq during testing from a flight test station. One or more pilot's inability to grasp this does not make it any more acceptable or workable for a legitimate user.

Nauga,
station to station
 
nauga said:
Here we go again. Flight Test Station freqs (such as 123.45) are not selected by the user, they are assigned. If I was not also assigned a backup freq I can't (legally) change freqs if an unauthorized user is on my freq during testing from a flight test station. One or more pilot's inability to grasp this does not make it any more acceptable or workable for a legitimate user.

Nauga,
station to station
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I said that just because it is designated a test frequency does not change the fact that people use it air to air...AKA reality check...not that I recommend its use. I do not recommend its use.

The FCC and FAA are not going to get too excited about a couple guys bragging about their fast groundspeed on 123.45...reality. It happens all the time.

I85 and I95 have posted (assigned) speed limits that are ignored all the time...is it illegal to speed...yes. Do people ignore the speed limit..yes.
 
Sure, we live in an imperfect world, but while we're noticing that, I think it's important to remind people that legitimate users of the frequency can't just change frequencies on their own initiative, and may lose time and money as a result.
 
Doug Reid said:
I think testing on 123.45 was a bad idea ....maybe a better idea in a less populated part of the country, or at a different time of day.
Click to expand...

Doug Reid said:
I said that just because it is designated a test frequency does not change the fact that people use it air to air...AKA reality check...not that I recommend its use. I do not recommend its use.
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I posted what I posted because a flight test station does not typically have the luxury of "...a less populated part of the country, or at a different time of day..." to accommodate those who misuse our assigned frequencies. To continue with your analogy, if your casual speeding inhibited me in the performance of my job I'd call you out on that too.

Nauga,
jammed
 
Doug Reid said:
I know the whole Jim Weir story..it does not change my stand one little bit. I like Jim...I have several of his radio kits. I think testing on 123.45 was a bad idea ....maybe a better idea in a less populated part of the country, or at a different time of day.
Click to expand...

Cliff notes, or a pointer to said story?
 
jd21476 said:
So as a student pilot a fews years back I was always told that air to air was 122.75 for anywhere in the Country, but then recently I was told that it is actually different in the Los Angeles area and some pilots use a different frequency.

Ive never flown x-country without being on FF so I never put the air to air frequency to the test and the only time I use it is in the San Diego area.

So if I didnt know about 122.75, how would you find it using Foreflight? Also, is it true there is a different frequency for Los Angeles?
Click to expand...
Not sure!
 
If not much is going on I’ll listen up at times, 122.75 or 123.45. There’s usually activity on nice weather days or as Oshkosh is ramping up.

I heard a student solo a few years ago on 123.45, he just wanted to chat on a longer cross country. My understanding is the 122.75 is the official one, but even over land, the other is used rather often.
 
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