How best to figure out what make/model of plane fits you best

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dslovett

Filing Flight Plan
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Dan Lovett
New pilot / poster here with a question about how to go about figuring out what plane to buy.

I'm coming to flying late (59 yo) as I start getting ready for retirement (one of those always wanted to but never could manage time, etc. situations). I'm getting close to my checkride, after which I'm planning to do time-building and work on IFR certification before eventually looking to buy my own plane (possibly start looking in earnest come the fall).

Here's what I'm wondering - while I've already done a lot of reading/research online, and have three or four makes/models in mind based on my vision for future mission set(s), how can I go about getting an opportunity to see / sit in / possibly fly what I'm thinking about? I've read enough talk online that I know that I don't want to waste sellers' time as a 'tire-kicker' (wouldn't want it done to me either), but I want to have a better understanding of exactly what will best suit my requirements. Right now, only experience is in the planes that I'm training in, and while they're good for the purpose, they won't suit future needs.
 
Rent and fly the planes on your short list for a few months to figure out what you really like.
 
WDD said:
Rent and fly the planes on your short list for a few months to figure out what you really like.
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I've been wondering about that. The little bit of looking I've been able to do on the Internet didn't provide a lot of information about that. I'm currently flying out of a small airport (KSOP, Southern Pines/Pinehurst NC) and there's not much in that category around here outside of the Flying Club which is mostly the training aircraft fleet I'm already using.
 
I was in your position; I did not pursue my certificate until my late 50’s as well. I wanted to fly for the sheer joy of flight but a main goal was travel to certain competitions that required a lot of heavy gear. These trips could sometimes be 1000nm but common in the 300-500nm range. I had a plan to buy a 4 place to train in and obtain my IR but also one with a decent 400nm fuel load and still room for the payload I needed. I also wanted a newer plane for reliability while training and early years. I did research and narrowed the possibilities down to a 182 or a Dakota. I went to a couple of fly ins and looked at planes and asked questions. I settled on a 182S. In the next year and a half I took opportunities to look at other airplanes of interest at different FBO’s, maintenance shops and fly ins and again asked a lot of questions. This led to my next plane which I will likely keep for a while. I still keep my eyes open looking at the next possible model and ask questions….just in case;)
 
You might try a want to test fit/fly post on the various online forums and Facebook for the planes you're interested in. There might someone local that would provide the opportunity to see the plane up close and personal. Additionally, if the FAA still has a search feature in the registration by type you might try some blind mailings to the address of the ones that are at least showing a registered address close to you. I did that in my search and got a couple of responses.
 
I was able to select C182 as best for my mission all based on research. I bought one before my first flight lesson and that was almost 20 years ago. Great decision.
I think you could do the same - select the best plane for you just based on research. All the info is out there.
 
dslovett said:
I've been wondering about that. The little bit of looking I've been able to do on the Internet didn't provide a lot of information about that. I'm currently flying out of a small airport (KSOP, Southern Pines/Pinehurst NC) and there's not much in that category around here outside of the Flying Club which is mostly the training aircraft fleet I'm already using.
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If you care to, share your short list here on POA. Maybe there's some additional real world information (good or bad) that can add to what your own research has picked up on already.
 
What we did was go to Oshkosh and sat in every open plane in the display areas. Then when we got the idea we might be interested in Navions, we wandered around and talked to lots of Navion owners, receiving offers to sit in their planes, and even offers for a ride in their planes.
 
OP did not disclose which models he is considering.

The flight club he mentioned is operating according to their website various C152/C172/PA28-161 and two Mooney. So he is obviously not looking at the usual suspects.

Here are my thoughts:

- Do not buy too much aircraft. Your PPL is just a license to learn.
- Your current „mission“ should be focused on becoming a competent pilot. This is usually not going to happen within a few weeks.
- There is a reason why C152/C172 and PA28 are widely used for flight training purposes, so stick with them until you are really ready for a faster and/or more complex aircraft.
- If the prospect models are not used in rental fleets consider joining the specific forums for those make/model to find out if an owner is residing nearby.
- Ask the mechanics at your home field if any of their customers have such a model
- Check the FAA register for the particular model for your area
- Get quotes for insurance prior you commit to a certain model
- Talk with your potential future mechanic about parts availability and pricing. Access to maintenance is an important factor.
 
Thanks everyone for the inputs!

Yes, deliberately did not discuss aircraft under consideration because I did not want the thread to devolve into a comparison discussion, which there are many of those already out there, since I'm looking for more practical advice on 'how do I go about seeing them for myself.' Having said that, the three that I'm leaning towards (each with relative strengths and weaknesses with regards to what I think I need and the considerations some of you have noted) are:

Bonanza 35 (likely S35 through V35 A/B) - think this hits the higher end of my requirements, but too much airplane at this stage?
C182 (likely N through R, also interested in the RG variants) - my flight school has a 182N that it uses for IFR training so I will get time in this one
Piper Turbo Arrow III - more lower end of requirements (maybe) - big question is how comfortable will this be for primary passenger (wife) since she needs to like flying in it too

One question: I've seen some posters online commenting on the value of IFR training in your own machine IOT get time with an instructor with the actual systems as configured in the plane you will be flying. Sure, but how valuable is that actually? Enough to move up my timeline on acquisition?
 
dslovett said:
Right now, only experience is in the planes that I'm training in, and while they're good for the purpose, they won't suit future needs.
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I'm not age discriminating, but insurance companies are.

And while I understand a C172/PA28 might not feel like your forever plane, they are the cheapest to maintain and insure. Get a retract, and watch your insurance company jack up your premium 6-fold because they know it's only a matter of time until you'll forget to put the gear down.

So, that aside, what are your flying goals? Easier to tell you how to waste your money if we know where you want to go.
 
AV8R_87 said:
I'm not age discriminating, but insurance companies are.

And while I understand a C172/PA28 might not feel like your forever plane, they are the cheapest to maintain and insure. Get a retract, and watch your insurance company jack up your premium 6-fold because they know it's only a matter of time until you'll forget to put the gear down.

So, that aside, what are your flying goals? Easier to tell you how to waste your money if we know where you want to go.
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Here's what I'm thinking: this is going to be my activity while retired, so I intend to fly at least 1x a week somewhere by myself for a $100 hamburger, etc. Fly with 1 passenger (wife) plus baggage on 500-750 mile trips about 3-4 times a year (from central NC to St Louis, Memphis, and DFW area to visit family) and 1-2 trips each year for travel purposes (could be anywhere in the US with multiple stops where needed to cover distance). Once I cross experience thresholds may consider volunteer work like Pilots for Paws.
 
Nice list of what you'll be doing.

1) Don't buy - yet. Fly your VFR hours to get your requirements to get your IR, then spend another year/what not getting your IR. It will be as much work as your PPL.
2) Rent some different planes and take them cross country. (Did I mention that before?)
3) Then pick your plane.

I knew I wanted a Tiger. Then I flew one X country with the wife. Too "light". I knew I wanted an Archer. Then I sat in one. I knew I wanted a Cardinal retract. Then I looked at the speed, cost of maintenance, insurance, parts availability, etc. I took wife on a few trips in a rented 182.

Wife and I bought a C 182 P two years ago. Has the combination of acceptable speed, X country range, usable load, parts availability, maintenance costs, insurance costs, fuel burn, etc. We're doing 150-175 hours a year. BTW - you'll find yourself flying more when you own.
 
dslovett said:
I've seen some posters online commenting on the value of IFR training in your own machine IOT get time with an instructor with the actual systems as configured in the plane you will be flying. Sure, but how valuable is that actually? Enough to move up my timeline on acquisition?
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As an older well-seasoned pilot still using the same plane (with many upgrades) for 31+ years flying for business, pleasure (family travel) and IFR proficiency, here's a recommendation that could be useful and possibly in tune with your plans:

Your indication of training and building experience (including picking up an IR rating) in the same aircraft is fine. Avoid learning on steam the transitioning into glass if you can.

IMO, your short list that includes a C-182 model is smart. Simple to learn on, build experience, popular to hold value, and it fits all your present and future plans. If it was me, I'd buy one already set up with Garmin instrumentation / autopilot (newer and all glass if you can afford it). As you build time, experience and earn your IR, you're growing older (and wiser) flying a forgiving plane that fits you like a glove! That kind of long term level of complete familiarity increases flight safety.
 
WDD said:
Wife and I bought a C 182 P two years ago. Has the combination of acceptable speed, X country range, usable load, parts availability, maintenance costs, insurance costs, fuel burn, etc. We're doing 150-175 hours a year. BTW - you'll find yourself flying more when you own.
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You worked your way up to a great choice! I couldn't agree more.

I borrowed a 182 (with a STOL kit) for a few months when the Mooney was getting an engine and some panel improvements and put on about 65 hours in it. It was an outstanding cross country ride! Makes the 150's and 172's seem like toys.
 
Suggestions: (1) join local EAA and attend their meetings, make friends, discuss and sit in various models - most of our EAA members here are certified owners, and (2) rent your planes and go to fly-ins, meet people that own your particular interest, discuss and sit in. In both cases you are likely to meet a friendly soul who will take you up for a flight. In short time you will find your answer.

I too wanted to fly and realized that I was turning 50 and it was now or never. That was 10 years ago. I say that the only thing dumber financially than buying a boat is buying an airplane. And I would do it again. That’s what I worked hard for all those years.

Enjoy the journey and keep us posted! Pics required!! And welcome to POA!!!
 
Depending on the make and model, the various type clubs might be a good avenue to talk to owners and learn more. You could post here what you’re thinking about as there is a good chance someone with one isn’t too far away.

But as @letsgoflying said - Bonanza See my avatar
 
I’m going to say - don’t worry about those who say “X is too much airplane for you”. If you are concerned about that, buy it and do your IFR training in it. By the time your training is done, you’ll likely be 100% comfortable in it.

The only way to learn how to fly a bigger/faster airplane is to… fly a bigger/faster airplane. That said, don’t skimp on the training. If the insurance minimums are not doing it for you, get more instruction. Flying is a license to learn, and for most of us, learning is fun.

Note, all of the above assumes you are actively pursuing your instrument rating. If IFR is not for you, then yeah, stick with the 172 or something. (Nothing wrong with that). I fly a “big/fast” airplane and I often wish I had a smaller, slower one just to cruise around in.
 
dslovett said:
big question is how comfortable will this be for primary passenger (wife) since she needs to like flying in it too
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I liked the answer "Bonanza",
But with this new information, I'd say "Cirrus".
 
I'm in the don't buy yet camp. Get some XC experience, get the IFR rating, and get a better sense of your actual missions vs hypothetical ones.

Also buy lots of tactical pants, grow facial hair and maybe get a tattoo so you fit in at KSOP. Just remember the real badasses in Southern Pines look like accountants off duty.
 
I agree with the “wait” advice, but I’ll toss out one more thing to consider when you begin shopping seriously.

The missions you described only require carrying one other person. If you’ll get an airplane that qualifies under MOSAIC, you’ll be able to keep on flying it under Sport Pilot privileges if you ever face complications with maintaining a medical. Plenty of very capable planes qualify, including some Bonanzas.
 
There is value in being an airport hobo and offering to safety pilot anyone in their plane. Pilots seem willing to take anyone for a ride with very little provocation.

Plus, I still say plane ownership deserves its own checkride. There are a LOT of footguns waiting for you, and delaying some of them is valuable in its own right. You'll learn a lot of "don't-do" just by being around airplane owners.
 
To counter the crowd that's saying "don't buy yet", I'll throw in a vote for doing your instrument training in the plane (and panel, and autopilot) you'll be using it in. I'm a few years into my first sole-ownership. I had a terrible repair/maintenance run including over a year grounded, but even with that I'd say it's been worthwhile for the flexibility and pride of ownership and the safety that comes with "knowing your plane".
 
Lots of good suggestions. WRT to "trying a plane on", most pilots LOVE to show off their planes. Here, other forums like Beechtalk, Facebook regional pilot groups...all good places to reach out and ask for owners local to you to check out their planes. If you can make it to Oshkosh...you are guaranteed to find the model you want to look at and be able to sit in it. I've had several pilots sit in my plane in the N40 at OSH. I think I may have sold a couple too lol. The nice thing about finding someone more local is that you'll likely be able to fly in it. Ditto Ed's EAA chapter suggestion. Even if those folks don't have the plane your looking for, someone probably will know someone who does.

At some point, someone will tell you that a Mooney is the best "bang for your buck" airplane. It is important that you do NOT listen to them :biggrin:

Welcome to POA!
 
Ed Haywood said:
I'm in the don't buy yet camp. Get some XC experience, get the IFR rating, and get a better sense of your actual missions vs hypothetical ones.

Also buy lots of tactical pants, grow facial hair and maybe get a tattoo so you fit in at KSOP. Just remember the real badasses in Southern Pines look like accountants off duty.
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I'm a retired semi-badass (nowhere near the badasses of which you speak, but friends with few) - tracking 100%!
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose the ideal time to buy your first plane is at 200 hours and upon completion of your IFR rating and complex/HP endorsements.
 
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Ed Haywood said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose the ideal time to buy your first plane is at 200 hours
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Sounds like a reasonable benchmark.

Ed Haywood said:
and upon completion of your IFR rating and complex/HP endorsements.
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Assuming you want something complex and IFR capable.

(Otherwise I’d still be waiting.)
 
GoFly said:
You will probably be flying by yourself more than 75% of the time, so factor that in.
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It seems a lot of pilots on this forum do fly by themselves most of the time.

For me, personally, I use it for family transportation. My immediate (and often extended) family are common passengers.
 
dslovett said:
I've been wondering about that. The little bit of looking I've been able to do on the Internet didn't provide a lot of information about that. I'm currently flying out of a small airport (KSOP, Southern Pines/Pinehurst NC) and there's not much in that category around here outside of the Flying Club which is mostly the training aircraft fleet I'm already using.
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Not sure what's on your list, but there's several public flying clubs around that can help you get different planes.

Fayettvile Flying Club at KFAY seems to be defunct.
Wings of Carolina (Warrior II, C172, Mooney) or Odyssey Aero Club (Diamond DA40) at KTTA
Not that close, but Raleigh Flying Club at RDU has a couple of Bonanzas, Cherokee 6, an Archer and a bunch of smaller stuff in Fuquay Varina (don't recommend flying from 5W5. I used to live 3 miles from there and would not use the airport)

Quite a few flight school that I trust you can find.
 
Half Fast said:
Assuming you want something complex and IFR capable.
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IMO there's something to be said for getting a taste of Complex/HP so you know if it appeals to you.

The best advice I ever got was to roll right into your IFR rating after PPL. I completely ignored it, but it was still really good advice.
 
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bflynn said:
Not sure what's on your list, but there's several public flying clubs around that can help you get different planes.

Fayettvile Flying Club at KFAY seems to be defunct.
Wings of Carolina (Warrior II, C172, Mooney) or Odyssey Aero Club (Diamond DA40) at KTTA
Not that close, but Raleigh Flying Club at RDU has a couple of Bonanzas, Cherokee 6, an Archer and a bunch of smaller stuff in Fuquay Varina (don't recommend flying from 5W5. I used to live 3 miles from there and would not use the airport)

Quite a few flight school that I trust you can find.
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Sadly my alma mater, the Fort Bragg Flying Club at Simmons AAF, is apparently long gone.

Was perfectly located when I was a student in the Q course and living in Spring Lake in the early 90's.
 
Bring a box of doughnuts to an a&p you might use. Check out his shop, see what he's working on and if there's any models you're thinking of, get his opinions. If you see any you like ask him to pass along your info to the owner for a flight. Not necessarily to buy but to get a feel for the model.
 
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