Hours for a C182 annual

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by Katamarino, Jul 22, 2020.

  1. Katamarino

    Katamarino Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,475
    Location:
    Basra, Iraq
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Katamarino
    I was quoted 25-30 hours for the basic inspection. With no communication in the meantime, they're invoicing me for 45.

    10 hours are listed for removing and reinstalling inspection panels, and 14 for "annual checks" - all the engine work is listed separately, so that 14 seems to be for air frame only.

    My home A&P says that the 45 is way too high and they're trying to rip me off, I'm inclined to agree. What is typical for C182 inspections in the experience of the forum?
     
  2. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,726
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    some one is ripping you off.
    when the aircraft is already open, it requires about 30 minutes.
    remember, shooting the shi- during that time don't count.
    about 20 minutes to inspect, and the rest is the run up.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
    Tantalum likes this.
  3. SloRoam

    SloRoam Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2019
    Messages:
    80
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SloRoam
    I have seen costs typically around 1-2k total for an annual, and I could see 2 hours for inspection panels. I have removed the ones on my 182 and replaced them for annuals, so this is from hands on knowledge.

    Seems like a rip-off: if it takes them that long to open up the inspection panels on a 182 they should probably be charging you $10 an hour.
     
  4. Pugs

    Pugs Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    692
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pugs
    Our club 182S was 29.65 hours ($100/hour) this year with 20 of that being the basic annual and 9.65 of fixing things (plus parts ($500) the whole annual was $3600). Bit more than usual but this plane gets flown a lot by a lot of different people and the club isn't one for not doing maintenance right.
     
  5. GeorgeC

    GeorgeC Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,524
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GeorgeC
    I don't have all the data in front of me, but for us it's been around $1000 for the annual plus maybe another $1000 in misc discrepancies. 15-20 alone wouldn't cause me any agita, but 10 to remove panels and 45 total with no comms would.
     
  6. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    12,653
    Location:
    Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Right Seater
    What is their hourly shop rate?
     
  7. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    3,902
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bell206
    I take it the annual is being done in Australia or New Zealand? And in a shop? You can not compare US rates or mx time to any other foreign ops regardless if the aircraft is N reg. There are too many local variables/CAA requirements that may come into play. Since you have a good online presence with local pilots there, inquire if your bill from this specific shop is high for a single recip annual or its equivalent local CAA inspection. If the locals there say its high then you have something to go on. When it comes to aircraft mx the US system is the envy of all others for a number of reasons, but especially for its low cost. As for shop rates, even in the US you can pay more and take longer if you have a CRS perform the annual vs an independent APIA. So it always depends....

    EDIT: if this is connected to your "annual swing compass" thread then where the annual inspection takes place can also figure in to what is locally performed. Short of flying in your mechanic from the States, it falls to you to ensure how the annual inspection is defined with your mx provider--and this is also valid with any "new" mx provider whether in the US or abroad.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
    murphey and Katamarino like this.
  8. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,774
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    20 minute inspection time? Sounds like a classic pencil-whip.
     
  9. Pilot Steve

    Pilot Steve Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Messages:
    111
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pilot Steve
    Last year was the first time I did an owner assisted annual and I did all the inspection panel removal, changed the oil, ran to get needed tools, and kept the mechanic hydrated and fed. Not only did I learn new things about the airplane but the annual was $1,500 instead of the $5,000 I paid the year before for the full service.

    If you are in the U.S. then 45 hours sounds unreasonable for an annual without major repairs to deal with as a result of the inspection.
     
  10. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    Sw florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    bob
    im not about to say tom pencil whips inspections. it takes me more than 30 min, but he is right in that if the aircraft is ready for inspection the inspection does not take that long. it depends on the airframe also. something like a cessna 140 does not take very long, simple airframe, not a lot of SB's and AD's to do.A PA28 a bit longer because of the rudder bar SB, takes me a few minutes just to get under the panel with a flashlight and 10x to inspect it. not to mention the SB on the control cables in the tail.
    as to the OP IF it were in the US, i would say 14hrs is bit much for the inspection portions. doing a simple single my shelf takes me about 30hrs total if nothing really needs to be repaired.
     
  11. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,774
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Can tell you, there’s absolutely no way of doing a thorough annual inspection in 20 minutes - or even close to for that matter.
     
    Checkout_my_Six likes this.
  12. MIFlyer

    MIFlyer Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,310
    Location:
    Mercer Island, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MIFlyer
    I'm not an IA, BUT, remember Tom is pretty specific when he says inspection, he means inspection, not servicing things and not repairing things. But I'll let him speak for himself.
     
    brien23 and nrpetersen like this.
  13. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,774
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    I know what he means and I’ll stand by what I said. You cannot perform a thorough annual inspection in twenty minutes.
     
    Omalley1537 and Checkout_my_Six like this.
  14. MIFlyer

    MIFlyer Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,310
    Location:
    Mercer Island, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MIFlyer
    Thanks. I'll defer as I don't have the expertise here.
     
  15. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,726
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    How long must you stare at something to know it is good or not?

    remember we were talking about a 182.
     
  16. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,774
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    I get that, but there’s no way any mechanic can run through 43(d) (thoroughly) in 20 minutes.
     
    Bell206 likes this.
  17. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,996
    Location:
    hopefully not at work
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Meet the Fokkers
    I can inspect a nice glass of good bourbon in less than 20 minutes.

    Not sure how that relates to this conversation.
    just sayin...
     
    Omalley1537, ktup-flyer and WannFly like this.
  18. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,726
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    opinion
     
  19. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    3,902
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bell206
    Curious. How much of the 20 minutes is allocated to check the condition of the wheel bearings? Or the compression check? Or do you supplemental bill for that part of an annual inspection?
     
    Omalley1537 and RyanB like this.
  20. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,774
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Fact. Not trying to be critical, I’m just being realistic. It can’t be done thoroughly in that amount of time.
     
  21. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    10,664
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    Well it takes 15 minutes to find the blue Bic.....and another few to figure out what to write. lol :D

    It takes me two weekends of inspection and paperwork to do an easy annual on your average Piper or Cessna or Beech. Probably 15-20 hrs of work. And that's with the owner doing the opening and closing...... Some have been a day and a half of inspection and another few hours of paperwork.
     
    RyanB likes this.
  22. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,726
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Don't forget, 3 cups of coffee.
     
    RyanB and Checkout_my_Six like this.
  23. Sinistar

    Sinistar En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2016
    Messages:
    3,215
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad
    Another data point for C182P.

    Our base annual rate has been about $1700 or 20hrs @ $85/hr. For the first annual only it was about $350 (4hrs) more to review the past 43yrs of old logs, AD compliance, etc.

    So if this is the first time this A&P has seen your plane I could believe the 25hrs but 30hrs seems pretty high.
     
  24. NordicDave

    NordicDave Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2015
    Messages:
    2,066
    Location:
    San Jose
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    NordicDave
    When estimating time don't forget addressing AD's and lubing everything, extra time to deep dive on items requiring additional investigation. Low compression cylinder should trigger a borescope inspection for example.

    Shocking how some required checks and lubrication according to factory maintenance manual are never addressed. Some AD inspections are certain intervals mandate eddy current, dye penetrate test, etc not necessarily done every year to account for as well.

    You WILL find a IA to perform the level of investigation & inspection you desire. All the way from pencil whipped to detailed by the M-O book as per manufacturer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
    455 Bravo Uniform likes this.
  25. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,725
    Location:
    KLAF
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    455 Bravo Uniform
    182P here. By memory I want to say it was $1,650 base cost. It was about 3 full days, before my own list of items.
     
  26. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,726
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    99% of what you speak is maintenance not inspection
    show where a AD search is a on the items to be preformed in 43-D
     
  27. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    7,489
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    Do you sign off an aircraft as airworthy without verifying all ADs have been complied with?
     
    EugeneR and Doc Holliday like this.
  28. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,726
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Not the point.. is it required IAW 43-D,, NO..
    Part 39 is separated from the Annual for a reason.
    do know why?
     
  29. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,903
    Location:
    NEPA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    benyflyguy
    Base for our 182H is 1200. But last two years a bunch of things came up. New mains, shimmy issue. Door seal replacement -very time consuming. Both were about 5 grand when done. But I got my fingers crossed for this year. We don’t really have many squaks. It was down for firewall damage for a year prior. Lot of the issues seemed to be post shakedown from that.
     
  30. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    7,489
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    Answer my question first.
     
    Doc Holliday likes this.
  31. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,726
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    not the question, annual has a purpose
     
  32. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,726
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    I did.
     
  33. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    7,489
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    No, you answered a different question. Do you sign off an airplane as airworthy without verifying ads have been complied with?
     
    NordicDave, Doc Holliday and Bell206 like this.
  34. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    3,902
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bell206
    FYI: he only answers his own questions. I'm still waiting on an answer from post 19. :rolleyes:
     
  35. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,726
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    You need to the whole answer.

    now tell us why it is not part of an annual.
     
    brien23 likes this.
  36. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,726
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    when the aircraft is ready to inspect, the bearings should be included.
    or can't you separate the maintenance from the inspection either?
     
    brien23 likes this.
  37. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    7,489
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    You need to “the whole answer” yourself. I sure have no idea what you are saying. You didn’t answer my question.
     
    Bell206 and Doc Holliday like this.
  38. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,726
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    we figured that out long ago.

    It is simple part 39 is not a portion of an annual. otherwise a A&P couldn't do it.
    also there is no requirement to make a statement as to the compliance of ADs
    I hope some day you understand the FARs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
    brien23 likes this.
  39. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,726
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    no you need to understand the FARS.
     
    brien23 likes this.
  40. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    34,726
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    My A&Ps have already been thru the aircraft IAW the 43-D list prior to my inspection, I should not find any discrepancies. If I do, they have failed their customers.
     
    brien23 likes this.