Help Spend My Money $$$ On A New Engine Monitor

J

JoseCuervo

En-Route
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
2,868
Display Name
Display name:
JoseCuervo
Getting my O-470R overhauled and had the discussion about how big of a hole in my checkbook we should make.

Currently, I just have an EGT in my 182.

It is suggested that more information might be better. So, an engine monitor needs to be ordered this week.


(For what it is worth, I think we will not remove the tach and the manifold pressure gauges).

What is the "best" monitor out there for usage, cost/value, and reliability?

Any ideas on the cost?
 
Electronics international and JPI both make good engine monitors. I use a JPI EDM 700 in the 182 I fly and really like it. It includes some alerts and will record engine info for you. The 700 isn't a primary replacement instrument so it won't replace your mandatory CHT gauge. If you go with the EDM 900, you can get rid of other mandatory engine instruments and just use the 900.
 
I'm an Electronics International fan. Always have had good communications via email and always have helped out when I wanted their permission to use STC whether or not I had brand new equipment to install.

Their fuel flow transducers look much more like an aircraft part than the JPI ones, they are cost a bit less.
 
I'm just ditching all my primary engine and fuel instruments for a EI 30P
 
The JPI EDM 711 is still available from Aircraft Spruce for primary CHT replacement but after you purchase the box and sensor it is over $2100. I'd go with a full primary setup in that case.
 
Love our CGR-30P . We've had it a bit over a year, and nothing but good things to say about it. Allowed us to remove most of our other primary gauges, and got the fuel/oil lines out of the cockpit. The learning curve isn't terrible, and it's got a lot of functionality. Support from EI has also been pretty good (not amazing, but good). Installation is a pretty big job, though, but perhaps not too bad incrementally if you've already got the engine off.

I'd love to put one in my next airplane, but those prices x2 get cost-prohibitive.
 
JoseCuervo said:
What functions would I miss with the Basic?
Click to expand...
From what I read it is the quantity of primaries, not the specific primaries. You'd have to call Electronics Int'l to find out unless someone else here knows.
 
Joshuajayg said:
From what I read it is the quantity of primaries, not the specific primaries. You'd have to call Electronics Int'l to find out unless someone else here knows.
Click to expand...

I believe this is correct. When you buy the unit, you get to select a certain number of "primary" functions (those that allow you to remove the old gauge). The Basic allows you to select 4 primary functions; the premium lets you select 7. Think about what gauges you'd want to remove from the plane. You'll eat up 4 pretty quickly.

1. RPM
2. MP
3. Oil Pressure
4. Oil temp
5. Fuel pressure
6. Volts/amps
7. Fuel flow (depending on your plane, if this is required)

You can also use the CGR for fuel level, but each tank is one primary function, so 2 tanks = two primary functions.
 
bradg33 said:
I believe this is correct. When you buy the unit, you get to select a certain number of "primary" functions (those that allow you to remove the old gauge). The Basic allows you to select 4 primary functions; the premium lets you select 7. Think about what gauges you'd want to remove from the plane. You'll eat up 4 pretty quickly.

1. RPM
2. MP
3. Oil Pressure
4. Oil temp
5. Fuel pressure
6. Volts/amps
7. Fuel flow (depending on your plane, if this is required)

You can also use the CGR for fuel level, but each tank is one primary function, so 2 tanks = two primary functions.
Click to expand...
Cool. So for a 182 with an O- 470,
1.RPM
2.MP
3.Oil temp
4.Oil pressure
5.CHT
6.Left fuel
7.Right fuel

Seems like a very thorough setup.
 
Joshuajayg said:
Cool. So for a 182 with an O- 470,
1.RPM
2.MP
3.Oil temp
4.Oil pressure
5.CHT
6.Left fuel
7.Right fuel

Seems like a very thorough setup.
Click to expand...

Depending on how your panel is setup, I'd personally do fuel pressure as one of the options. Lots of older airplanes have live fuel lines running to the fuel pressure gauge. I don't like having fuel or oil running into the cockpit if I can avoid it. Replacing that gauge with a CGR primary option lets you get rid of that fuel line.
 
bradg33 said:
Depending on how your panel is setup, I'd personally do fuel pressure as one of the options. Lots of older airplanes have live fuel lines running to the fuel pressure gauge. I don't like having fuel or oil running into the cockpit if I can avoid it. Replacing that gauge with a CGR primary option lets you get rid of that fuel line.
Click to expand...
I don't know of a non-injected Cessna 182 with an O-470 that needs fuel a pressure gauge. Maybe the -R does? That's the poster's original question.

For an injected engine, I would completely agree with the fuel pressure primary instead and just install a Electronics Int'l fuel gauge separately.
 
Joshuajayg said:
I don't know of a non-injected Cessna 182 with an O-470 that needs fuel a pressure gauge. Maybe the -R does? That's the poster's original question.

For an injected engine, I would completely agree with the fuel pressure primary instead and just install a Electronics Int'l fuel gauge separately.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I learned something new today. I'm not a Cessna guy, so I'm not really tuned-into the non-fuel pump engines. A quick review of the regs, including Part 23 and CAR 3, indicate that a fuel pressure gauge isn't required on gravity-fed engines.
 
I have plenty of panel real estate available.

And, eliminating instruments is not the primary concern. More important is getting better data for my new engine, and managing it better.


I have the old 6-pack of rectangle gauges that includes Left Fuel Level, Right Fuel Level, AMPs, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, and Cylinder Temp, but just rough approximations as they are small analog gauges that likely have a huge parallax issue with reading them from the left seat to their installed position on the right side of the panel.

I would think, I want:

  1. Exhaust Gas Temp
  2. Cylinder Temp
  3. Fuel Flow (maybe move to #5)
  4. Manifold Pressure
  5. Tach
  6. Oil Temp (optional)
  7. Amps (optional)
 
JoseCuervo said:
I have plenty of panel real estate available.

And, eliminating instruments is not the primary concern. More important is getting better data for my new engine, and managing it better.


I have the old 6-pack of rectangle gauges that includes Left Fuel Level, Right Fuel Level, AMPs, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, and Cylinder Temp, but just rough approximations as they are small analog gauges that likely have a huge parallax issue with reading them from the left seat to their installed position on the right side of the panel.

I would think, I want:

  1. Exhaust Gas Temp
  2. Cylinder Temp
  3. Fuel Flow (maybe move to #5)
  4. Manifold Pressure
  5. Tach
  6. Oil Temp (optional)
  7. Amps (optional)
Click to expand...
Any of the mentioned options are better/good replacements for the data you are looking for. You just seem to get more bang for the buck with the premium 30P. And if one of your other mandatory gauges fails, you can trash it rather than replace it since you would have primary replacements already installed.

The biggest thing you likely want is 6 cylinder EGT/CHT. Those numbers are part of your engine's vitals and the factory indicators are terrible.
 
I like the 830 because it will give me % of HP. All the various alarms are nice, especially being turbo charged. Dial in 65% and there is no guess work. If you really want to do it right, the 930 is the way to go and rip out all the analog stuff. The 830 does not replace anything primary.

FWIW.... I have no experience with the EI gear. Looks cool, but I think it's too small unless it's right in front of you.
 
JoseCuervo said:
I have plenty of panel real estate available.

And, eliminating instruments is not the primary concern. More important is getting better data for my new engine, and managing it better.


I have the old 6-pack of rectangle gauges that includes Left Fuel Level, Right Fuel Level, AMPs, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, and Cylinder Temp, but just rough approximations as they are small analog gauges that likely have a huge parallax issue with reading them from the left seat to their installed position on the right side of the panel.

I would think, I want:

  1. Exhaust Gas Temp
  2. Cylinder Temp
  3. Fuel Flow (maybe move to #5)
  4. Manifold Pressure
  5. Tach
  6. Oil Temp (optional)
  7. Amps (optional)
Click to expand...

The EI will provide you with a ton of data. Regardless of the 7 primary instruments you choose, you'll get full 6 cylinder CHT and EGT, with configurable alarms, etc., and fuel flow/totalization. Downloads are also quick and easy, which can then be uploaded to SAVVY's web platform for free. It's also nice that it only takes up a single standard instrument hole, meaning no panel surgery. Screen is very readable, even off to the side. Our's isn't in the primary field of view, it's actually basically on the co-pilot's side, and we have no issues with readability.
 
I've had one for about 18 months and, like others, enjoy it's utility. I have one nit to pick about how it handles lean of peak operation, though. It (or at least the firmware in mine) identifies the first cylinder to go lean of peak and displays the number of degrees below peak EGT for that cylinder. As the others go lean of peak with continued leaning the CGR-30P displays that the later cylinder has gone lean of peak by showing a horizontal line above their EGT bars, but the numerical display is still only for the first cylinder to go LOP.

I believe that is backwards. The temperature display should be of the cylinder that is closest to its peak, not the one likely to be the furthest below its peak EGT.

I don't think mine is misconfigured in some way, or that I am misunderstanding its behavior. I've spent a fair amount of time unsuccessfully lobbying EI to change this programming...most recently at Sun N Fun 2016.

So if you are interested in running LOP, look into this issue further.
 
bkspero said:
I've had one for about 18 months and, like others, enjoy it's utility. I have one nit to pick about how it handles lean of peak operation, though. It (or at least the firmware in mine) identifies the first cylinder to go lean of peak and displays the number of degrees below peak EGT for that cylinder. As the others go lean of peak with continued leaning the CGR-30P displays that the later cylinder has gone lean of peak by showing a horizontal line above their EGT bars, but the numerical display is still only for the first cylinder to go LOP.

I believe that is backwards. The temperature display should be of the cylinder that is closest to its peak, not the one likely to be the furthest below its peak EGT.

I don't think mine is misconfigured in some way, or that I am misunderstanding its behavior. I've spent a fair amount of time unsuccessfully lobbying EI to change this programming...most recently at Sun N Fun 2016.

So if you are interested in running LOP, look into this issue further.
Click to expand...

It's not just you, the unit simply doesn't do LOP "lean assist" properly. You can still easily run lop using it, but the lean assist doesn't work like it should (backwards). You just have to manually watch for the last cylinder to peak and then adjust accordingly.
 
Starting the process iwth the CGR-30...

Looks like it is 3-4 weeks to get back. Not sure that works with my schedule very well...
 
And don't be dumb like me and forget to ask for the different cylinder probes if you have a Tanis heater. Hoping my replacement probes get here in time.
 
Don't know if it is normal length. He originally estimated 14 hours. There were:

4 CHT probes
4 EGT probes
Manifold pressure
Fuel flow transducer
Oil temp probe
Oil pressure
Carb temp probe
Mounting the computer relay under the panel
Removing old ammeter and hooking monitor to shunt
Putting in new gauge
Wiring everything
Leak test
Ground run

Probably missed a few things. Starts to add up. Plus one man shop probably makes it a little slower.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Don't know if it is normal length. He originally estimated 14 hours. There were:

4 CHT probes
4 EGT probes
Manifold pressure
Fuel flow transducer
Oil temp probe
Oil pressure
Carb temp probe
Mounting the computer relay under the panel
Removing old ammeter and hooking monitor to shunt
Putting in new gauge
Wiring everything
Leak test
Ground run

Probably missed a few things. Starts to add up. Plus one man shop probably makes it a little slower.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Hmmm...that's quite a few probes. Maybe $2000 is reasonable, but it definitely makes me rethink whether I want one in the 172.
 
Mine just arrived via UPS today, and took it down to the mechanics. They were estimating a day to install.
 
arnoha said:
18!? Damn. It's really that much? How many probes did you install? Is that a normal length of time?
Click to expand...

That's actually probably on the low side in terms of man hours. I've seen reports of 25-30 hours for the install. It's a pretty tedious job. It took our A&P around 20, and I did some of the work myself. A shop that's installed a few probably does it quicker.
 
bradg33 said:
That's actually probably on the low side in terms of man hours. I've seen reports of 25-30 hours for the install. It's a pretty tedious job. It took our A&P around 20, and I did some of the work myself. A shop that's installed a few probably does it quicker.
Click to expand...

So what's the all-in price, then? Around $7000-10,000? Overhaul runs around $25,000, so I guess it makes sense if you think it'll get you another 1/3 of hours on the motor? I want one of these in my plane, but will it actually do that for me?
 
arnoha said:
So what's the all-in price, then? Around $7000-10,000? Overhaul runs around $25,000, so I guess it makes sense if you think it'll get you another 1/3 of hours on the motor? I want one of these in my plane, but will it actually do that for me?
Click to expand...

$6k is probably a good "budget", depending on what you're paying your A&P. That assumes a little under $4k for the unit (with rebates, I think you can get one for about $3500) and $2k in labor (25 hours at $80/hr).

Honestly, I'd never even consider putting something like this in a 172. It's way, way, way overkill. A multi-probe engine monitor is important/helpful/necessary in a big-bore, fuel injected, high horsepower, high-compression, hard run engine that is routinely being pushed (and run LOP). In a 172, you're just not running the engine anywhere near hard enough to justify that level of monitoring. If it were me, I'd buy a low-cost fuel totalizer (EI FP-5L, etc.) and call it a day.
 
bradg33 said:
$6k is probably a good "budget", depending on what you're paying your A&P. That assumes a little under $4k for the unit (with rebates, I think you can get one for about $3500) and $2k in labor (25 hours at $80/hr).

Honestly, I'd never even consider putting something like this in a 172. It's way, way, way overkill. A multi-probe engine monitor is important/helpful/necessary in a big-bore, fuel injected, high horsepower, high-compression, hard run engine that is routinely being pushed (and run LOP). In a 172, you're just not running the engine anywhere near hard enough to justify that level of monitoring. If it were me, I'd buy a low-cost fuel totalizer (EI FP-5L, etc.) and call it a day.
Click to expand...

I want it more to cut clutter on the panel and be able to run LOP. If it were just me flying it, it might make sense. Even at $10K (would have to add Gammis), an IO-360 is going to burn $100K in fuel between overhauls (2000 hours * 10 gal/hr * $5/gallon). A 10% savings pays for it. But it's a leaseback, so they'll be running it at rental mixture: red knob full in. And a monitor that's not understood is more opportunity for folks squawking nothing.

*sigh* Want pretty things. Can't justify it.
 
Mine is "just" an Archer but I wanted some more info like fuel flow and CHT to help me better understand performance during cross countries. I was about $6k all in.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top