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Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Dave Arata, Aug 6, 2019.
I wouldn't do it unless something in the vacuum system was on the fritz.
Saves weight and complexity. I would absolutely do it for VFR only.
Ditto. Or I was desperate to gain a few pounds of useful.
Already did it for the AI.
Next year, the GPS and a second G5.
If your thinking of replacing your vacuum system,it’s a good choice.
Vacuum pump are waaaaaaaay cheaper than dual G5s
But what about the cost of overhauling mechanical gyros over a long period of time?
Been a good 15 years flying and I've never sent an a gyro out for overhaul.
That being said, there are a whole lot of nice, good looking used gyros being removed for panel upgrades that be had for song.
I haven't had a gyro overhauled in years, but what about the obsolescence cost of G5's and the cost of whatever their replacement is? I can't imagine Garmin supporting an inexpensive device like a G5 for more than 10 years or so. So if (when) one dies, I think you're gonna be spending a lot more than the cost to repair a gyro.
Ground speed, wind direction and velocity - May already have it on a panel or EFB GPS - but nice right eyes front.
The thing about these newfangled electrical gadgets is you can put new software on them to add functionality that wasn’t there when you bought it. The G5 is not going away in 10 years.
I gain 20 lbs of useful load going to G5s (my HSI was failing and it’s not supported anymore, deemed unrepairable).
I had vac, electric vac backup removed.
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The best argument is reduced maintenance expense, but most owners will never see a return on the investment because they don’t fly enough. A plane flying 500+ a year in a flight school is a different story.
I like how most people would spend a few AMU to save a couple of pounds, yet many will not consider losing a couple of pounds themselves.
With that said, I just removed the carpet from my plane and saved 6 pounds. Odyssey battery for another 6. And still expecting it to end up weighing more at the next official weigh, like they all seems to do.
Heck, you could just wear lightweight pants instead of jeans to save nearly a pound.
Lightweight shoes could save .25-.5 pounds.
Lightweight jacket instead of leather bomber to save 3-6 pounds, even if it just ends up on the back seat during flight.
My flight instructor is an old guy (no, actually really old - 89) and he doesn’t eat on Wednesday’s - don’t ask. Since I have a 150 and fly out of an obstructed 2700’ grass strip, Wednesdays are the day the fly when it is 95 degrees! That is a few pounds less crap inside of him. Instant weight savings on Wednesday.
Waiting for the AV-30 would be a better and cheaper way to get rid of vacuum. Just have to wait another year or so, and hope that it makes it through certification. Probably weight less as well.
I've ripped 110lbs out of my airplane. That's an entire person worth of weight. And it doesn't start with "well I could just take a dump" Ounces turn into lbs... quickly. I don't think it hurts to pull weight out of an airplane, ever, and I don't think comparing it to personal weight loss is terribly relevant.
Personally, I think it's overkill if it (or the pilot) is only ever going to be VFR. There's not even a requirement or even a *need* to have the instruments they would replace for VFR, and like other people have recently posted they don't even use their panel for primary navigation. So for a VFR only pilot or plane, I think they are over kill. But I also think a lot of panel equipment is overkill for VFR only. I see pictures of panels in slow-ass planes flown by VFR guys that look like they pulled the panel out of a brand new Cirrus, and put in their plane. It's like why??
If I ever go VFR only (myself or the plane) long-term, the non-required equipment in the plane is going to be sparse. Transponder and com, and that's probably about it. I'll navigate with a tablet or something.
There’s more than just VFR and IFR. I agree with you in the 162 I fly. The silly glass panel is a waste to tool around on fair weather days. I rarely even look at it.
But I am only VFR rated and sometimes fly my mooney 1,000 miles a day. And sometimes at night. For those situations, the G5 is pretty nice to have.
Except that our planes were designed back when average weights for airmen and passengers were 155-170 and as recently as 2003, the FAA has added another 10 pounds to the “average” person up to 200 pounds for men and 179 for women. This includes 16 pounds of personal bags, but that is 184# for men and 163# for women. It is no wonder that very few people consider the 172 or Cherokee actually a 4 person plane. Well, except they are if men weigh 165 and women weigh 130 like most did 60 years ago.
We have all had cases of “sorry, but it is too hot to fly”. With the actual meaning being “sorry, but it is too hot to fly you right now because you or I weigh too much for this weather”. If either of us weighed less, then it would be safe to fly. Unfortunately this “sport” is very weight dependent, not unlike gymnastics, long distance running, even canoeing. Everything has weight limits.
I have a few patients like that. Mid 80’s. Fast every Friday. I think it’s a religious thing???
I added one to my Cessna 120 linked to an Aera660. I'm VFR only and I love it. Is it overkill? Probably, but I like the capability it adds and I feel safer in the case of night VFR or getting caught in IMC which I hope never happens.
If I lost 20-30 lbs I'd probably lose my medical as well. I'm already pretty close to ideal weight.
We had a dual vacuum pump setup with HSI. Replacing it made things _much_ simpler - removed 2 vacuum pumps, ancient magnetometer, etc, etc.
Plus, dual G5’s have _way_ more redundancy.
because the can and they wanted to?
I'm installing dual G5s at the next annual. I file IFR frequently though. One thing became apparent to me during my last night flight. The G5s will be WAY better visible at night than my vacuum gauges.
I only installed the G5 HSI because my autopilot needs the existing AI for roll info. GPSS steering and slaved compass are nice features for a VFR guy too.
I posted this in the other VFR G5 thread. My buddy did his 180 with a VFR only panel using the Dynon D-10A which one could easily do with a G5.
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I dunno just strikes me as funny and a waste of money when it's never going to be put to a practical use. Like having leather interior installed in a rusted out Yugo.
its a matter of personal preference, $10 sunglasses from Walmart and $200 from Ray-Ban do the same thing
Yeah I've never paid that for sunglasses either...at least for non-prescription ones.
Why so defensive?
not being defensive, just trying to understand whats wrong with putting a G5 or even a TXi in a 152 if the pilot wants to. typically when someone comes on this board asking for will X avionics do this in my plane, there are a few answers like unless you have a Bo its not worth it. why spend $x on avionics when a ball hanging via a string from the ceiling will do it.. and such.
I guess it's just my "within means" approach extends beyond just finances. It's like putting a class III hitch on a 48hp VW. Or buying a turbocharged plane and never flying above 5000'. Or putting all sorts of stuff in the panel when eyes should be outside, and you and I both know they aren't.
Most avionics upgrades these days meet that description. Even if flying IFR. But at least it’s almost justifiable then... at least on the few IMC days that won’t kill you in a spamcan.
You can say that about buying an airplane ?
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Cuts a routine trip from 8 hours to 2 or less. Calculate my time saved and it makes sense and puts me ahead. (Airlines don't service the area)
I also do a lot of volunteer flights.
Care to try again?
I am confused why you say "VFR only". After installing dual G5 in our club plane, I flew in IMC on the first flight. It took only a few minutes to become acquainted.
The plane gained about 12 pounds useful load after the installation. I don't count the weight of my passengers down to that level of precision, so it is a moot point. The flying cost also went up by about $15/hr to pay for the G5s. I don't know if it will pay off in maintenance costs or not, but if it were my personal airplane, I wouldn't have done the switch.
It doesn’t save you money. Whether buying or upgrading an airplane, it’s not about the money or what you need...it’s what you want.
To OP, I say go for it.
VFR? Get a Dynon D3 and put $2000 back in your pocket.
"Install" it yourself.