Garmin G5 STC-ed for HSI

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by WannFly, Mar 29, 2017.

  1. SbestCFII

    SbestCFII Line Up and Wait

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    Yeah. For the HSI function with legacy autopilots you would need a digital to analog interface, so the newest G5 STC is worthless without and Autopilot upgrade. I have the G5 for my PFD now, and kept all my analog devices for backup (all overhauled and with a new vacuum pump).
    upload_2017-4-16_20-7-38.png
     
  2. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    Bw does anyone know if there are any restrictions of using Garmin G5 apart from being only primary for AI or TC or the HSI unit... Are they only STC-ed for VFR?

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  3. jimhorner

    jimhorner Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Here's the STC. Doesn't mention VFR only, although I didn't track down all the part 23 rules it references.

    http://download.aopa.org/advocacy/G5_STC.pdf?_ga=1.52246185.1210534220.1492391602


    If you think about it a bit, it wouldn't make sense to be VFR only. You don't even need any gyro instruments (AI, DG/HSI, TC) for VFR flight, so having a replacement AI like the G5 is fairly useless if not approved for IFR.

    Here's a shot of the panel of the plane in which my son is learning to fly. No Attitude indicator or DG. The Turn Coordinator is a luxury item here!

    [​IMG]

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    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
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  4. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    If you want to know the limitations on the Attutude Indicator, look up the FAA approved Airplane Flight Manual Supplement, just one document of the STC package. The other limitations people should be aware of is the Airworthiness Limitations regarding the standby battery, found in the Instructions for Continued Aitworthiness, another STC document.

    The HSI limitations are unknown since that portion is under development, but should be similar to the Attitude Indicator.

    https://support.garmin.com/support/manuals/manuals.htm?partNo=K10-00280-00&language=en&country=US
     
  5. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Why does it (G5) look like it is just stuck on, rather than built in?
     
  6. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Screen is bigger than the instrument hole, therefore mounted in the opposite side of the panel as typical instruments (Aspens are similar)
     
  7. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    Why would it have yellow flight director "V" bars........and then not do flight director?
     
  8. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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  9. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    The "Pilot's Guide" shed no light on why Garmin would include yellow flight director "V" bars and then neglect to include that function.
     
  10. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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  11. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    Clear to me as well. Worthless!
     
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  12. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Was at a friend's hangar on the weekend and got a first hand look at one he is going to install in his IFR RV-8.
    The G5 does have these cute red arrows that come up on the screen if the pitch excursion exceeds some programmed limit, indicating get the nose up/down.

    For something "worthless" I expect Garmin will sell a lot of them. ;)
     
  13. mkosmo

    mkosmo Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    I like it. If I ever decide to do some avionics work apart from some ADS-B love, a pair of G5s is now high on the list.
     
  14. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    So replacing an existing vacuum attitude gyro (which is hooked to a POS dry vacuum pump) with a solid state electric one containing a standby battery and displays airspeed and altimeter for about the same price that electric mechanical attitude gyros sold for is worthless?

    That's a head scratcher because I can think of three airplanes right now that could use this kit.
     
  15. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    Okay, I understand. You are uneducated on flight director displays and their operation.
     
  16. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    I don't know why anybody would put a TC in an airplane now, either.
     
  17. gsengle

    gsengle Pattern Altitude

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    The point is directionless flight director bars are worthless not that the entire device is worthless. It's a good question, is Garmin implying some false precision/capability in the display by showing FD bars


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  18. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Cleared for Takeoff

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    If mine didn't drive my yaw damper it'd be gone for sure. Maybe when an affordable autopilot replacement hits the market (hopefully sooner than later) I can get rid of it and my attitude indicator that drives the flight director/existing autopilot.
     
  19. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    They were lazy and didn't want to change the airplane symbol. More likely a conformity tactic to match their other equipment.
     
  20. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    It is actually a danger to include traditional "V" command bar indications, and then not include the flight director.
    Some clueless pilot may think he is "on glidepath" "on course" and follow the erroneous "V" command bars into the ground.
    On a real flight director, the yellow command bars would be out of sight until the FD was turned on.
     
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  21. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    It is not an "aircraft" symbol. The yellow "command bars" are normally course and glidepath indicators, but Garmin chose not to follow ALL other manufacturers precedents.

    The G5 would be great if it included flight director.
     
  22. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  23. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    See above references to flight director presentation/operation on electronic flight displays, notice not the same as old mechanical ones.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  24. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    Okay.........I'm full of ****!!

    Now I want one!!
     
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  25. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    Well...............maybe not full of **** after all. I just got it from the horse's mouth. The G5 will NOT do flight director or autopilot. At least, as of today.
     
  26. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    The STC versions won't, there is no approved wiring interface to drive it as I said in post #90.

    The non-STC versions (aka experimental) do if connected to garmin VHF or GPS navigation equipment via GAD29.
     
  27. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    Well, that is a BFD. There are already all sorts of experimental solutions.
     
  28. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I don't need the flight director so I guess I'm happy I won't be paying for one
     
  29. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    See post #100. It is a hazard.
     
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  30. ZeroPapaGolf

    ZeroPapaGolf Line Up and Wait

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    Read the page from the manual that was posted again. If there's no input for the FD, it's not displayed.
     
  31. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Garmin, Aspen, Dynon, Sandel, Avidyne, Rockwell Collins, Universal Avionics, and Honeywell use nearly identical FD & aircraft symbology on glass panels.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  32. gsengle

    gsengle Pattern Altitude

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    Yes and presumably they have flight director functionality....


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  33. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    That is the problem. It IS displayed. It just doesn't function.
     
  34. ZeroPapaGolf

    ZeroPapaGolf Line Up and Wait

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    The manual clearly says the "command bars are removed from the display". What is the source of your information?
     
  35. ZeroPapaGolf

    ZeroPapaGolf Line Up and Wait

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    In addition to the official documentation from Garmin proving that your statements are totally bogus, there's an endless list of review videos on YouTube showing the G5 in flight with....gasp!....no command bars.





    Etc, etc.
     
  36. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    What are you drinking? The command bars are shown in all your listed youtube videos.
     
  37. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    I was going to go down that path, but you got it. Getting the compass information into the thing may be entertaining in some panels and some aircraft.

    I want to see more hard info on what else needs to be added to feed the thing in HSI mode before I would plunk down money on it. Also want to know the failure modes when the compass data craps out.

    I have a feeling it'll be like the Sandel... compass data no workie, it stops behaving as a DG and can't be used / red X mode time.

    Most traditional HSIs that are slaved can be unslaved and used without the input. I prefer something that can do that... but the world is moving away from it.
     
  38. ZeroPapaGolf

    ZeroPapaGolf Line Up and Wait

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    That isn't a command bar! That's Garmin's standard style that they've used on every single PFD they've ever made. Look at a G1000, or a G-anything, the symbol has that same two-tone shaded look. It is NOT a command bar, and you're probably the first person in history to insist that it is. The command bar is purple. Again, read the manual. There are even pictures for you.

    G1000:
    [​IMG]

    G600:
    IMG_0512.jpg
     
  39. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I think they chopped up the yellow airplane symbol like that to make the bullseye easier to see
     
  40. jimhorner

    jimhorner Pre-takeoff checklist

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    See the following picture from a Garmin G1000 manual. The yellow triangles are the airplane symbol, not the command bars. The command bars would be the purple wedges in Garmin's standard. It appears that you are confusing the two.

    [​IMG]

    The command bars are not displayed on the G5. Stating that the yellow airplane symbol is the command bars as you are doing, doesn't make it so. Garmin is clear in their manual that the yellow symbol represents the airplane.

    Here's the relevant page from the G5 pilot manual. Seems pretty clear to me.

    [​IMG]

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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017