GAMI G100UL STC available now

You're right, though I believe I read 94UL would work on 75% of the planes in the current fleet. Definitely not 100% but a respectable number.
For example, for my plane, the Tecnam P2010, only the 180hp IO-360 is approved. Not the 215hp IO-390 which is what I have. Whereas the GAMI G100UL STC covers both engines. I think Swift excludes the higher performance engines...
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The Swift STC covers the 230 HP IO-540 in my CAP squadron's C182T, so the exact HP cutoff must vary depending on other factors.
 
Interesting. Wonder how they made that work on 94UL. Definitionally that engine is not making rated power at 2400RPM on 94UL. The STC must make some stipulation on performance decrease the FAA was willing to approve.
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Maybe there's an AFM supplement that came with the STC. I'll ask if we received one.
 
Interesting. Wonder how they made that work on 94UL. Definitionally that engine is not making rated power at 2400RPM on 94UL. The STC must make some stipulation on performance decrease the FAA was willing to approve.
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Not sure what you're getting at. A stock unmodified 182T redlines at 2400RPM and is rated for 230hp. Where does it say that is it unable to do that on 94UL?
 
I just assumed the 100 octane requirement meant that at the stated power rating it would pre-ignite at a lower octane. Perhaps that's indeed not the case here.
 
Maybe the aircraft or engine manufacturer based the octane specification on what octane choices of aviation fuel were available to be tested when the type certification work was being done.
 
The Swift STC covers the 230 HP IO-540 in my CAP squadron's C182T, so the exact HP cutoff must vary depending on other factors.
It's a matter of compression ratio; higher compression ratios require higher octane fuel to avoid detonation.

At one time there was a 91/96 avgas, so it may be that engines originally certificated to run that got included in the 94 STC.
 
Ok maybe someone can educate me on this subject. Ever since I entered aviation and started thinking about buying a plane at some point this question has come up and I can not find a suitable answer. Why do aircraft need these high octane fuels? The typical GA piston engine has lower (a lot lower) compression and lower RPM than the typical economy car. Yet we NEED 100 octane in a plane with maybe 8.5 to 1 and say 2600 or 2700 rpm, but we are fine with 87 octane in a KIA with 10.5 to 1 and say 5500 to 6000 rpm ...

So the question is why wont any of the suggested replacements (physically - ignore FAA rules for discussions purpose) work in GA? Even so called high performance and high compression GA piston engines aren't really either so why the need for super high octane? Does the altitudes we fly at change the rules? I was always under the impression that compression and pre-ignition/detonation drove octane requirements and that compression and timing/cam had the most effect. Higher compression and more timing with a big cam equals a need for higher octane fuels ... what am I missing?
 
Because it's not strict compression. Your auto engine has a number of things in it from retarding the spark automatically when it detects detonation to other changes in the combustion chamber design. Aviation engines are mostly stuck in the middle of the last century.
 
Why do aircraft need these high octane fuels? The typical GA piston engine has lower (a lot lower) compression and lower RPM than the typical economy car.
But they have much higher displacements per cylinder and less charge motion inside the cylinder so the flame front takes longer to travel out to the edges of the combustion chamber. This gives more time for fuel molecules ahead of the flame front to heat up, break down, and spontaneously combust.
 
Because it's not strict compression. Your auto engine has a number of things in it from retarding the spark automatically when it detects detonation to other changes in the combustion chamber design. Aviation engines are mostly stuck in the middle of the last century.

This is probably the most common answer I've seen to my question and it has always irked me because it doesn't square with my old vehicles. I have an old Chevelle and I went absolutely bonkers with the motor and had it built to SE Nascar 430/350 specs so high compression (11-1) and high rpm and I can run 87 if I retard the timing approx 6 to 8 degrees from normal. If I run 91 pump gas its perfectly happy to scream and snarl all day. That why the avgas thing makes my brain hurt.



But they have much higher displacements per cylinder and less charge motion inside the cylinder so the flame front takes longer to travel out to the edges of the combustion chamber. This gives more time for fuel molecules ahead of the flame front to heat up, break down, and spontaneously combust.


This I hadn't thought of at all, it still makes my brain hurt though. My inner hotrodder is screaming it can fixed with timing but I don't entirely understand how that's done on a GA piston with mags ... yet. I guess this is the secret I'm missing but I still don't like it. It seems to simple a problem to have not been solved.

Thanks for the inputs ... it helps even if it makes my brain hurt more lol. I really hadnt thought of combustion wave fronts or squish, that always been a 2-stroke problem in my brain for some reason.
 
Timing could help. One advantage to GA applications is you can't really "lug" the engine as much as a manual transmission car (Low RPM, high load is worst case for knock) and you tend to run in a narrow range of speed/load most of the time which limits the value of spark timing changes. Where variable timing would pay off the most if when you run lean, but you can't get that lean given the design of the combustion chamber (lacking squish, swirl, tumble). Two plugs helps with lean tolerance and knock, but...

Knock / abnormal combustion is still an area of research where there is room for plenty of PHD dissertations if you are inclined to go in that direction.
 
My understanding is 94UL is only refined in the Midwest and must be trucked around the country. Makes it expensive by the time it is out here.

Why would that be? 94UL is just 100LL without the lead added.
 
You're right, though I believe I read 94UL would work on 75% of the planes in the current fleet. Definitely not 100% but a respectable number.

The problem is, the 25% that can't burn it uses a LOT more fuel per year. Just 94UL is a small part of a small market.

G100UL can be used by virtually (there are few helicopters not yet covered) EVERY piston engine aircraft.

From Swift, there 100 unleaded cannot be used in all engines. "By Swift’s own claims their UL100R won’t meet the needs of up to 15% of the fleet."

Since their 94UL covers 75% of the fleet, their UL100R only covers another 10%
 
Ok maybe someone can educate me on this subject. Ever since I entered aviation and started thinking about buying a plane at some point this question has come up and I can not find a suitable answer. Why do aircraft need these high octane fuels? The typical GA piston engine has lower (a lot lower) compression and lower RPM than the typical economy car. Yet we NEED 100 octane in a plane with maybe 8.5 to 1 and say 2600 or 2700 rpm, but we are fine with 87 octane in a KIA with 10.5 to 1 and say 5500 to 6000 rpm ...

So the question is why wont any of the suggested replacements (physically - ignore FAA rules for discussions purpose) work in GA? Even so called high performance and high compression GA piston engines aren't really either so why the need for super high octane? Does the altitudes we fly at change the rules? I was always under the impression that compression and pre-ignition/detonation drove octane requirements and that compression and timing/cam had the most effect. Higher compression and more timing with a big cam equals a need for higher octane fuels ... what am I missing?

Another factor that should be considered is that the octane rating on aviation fuels is not measured the same way as it is on the auto fuels you see at the gas station. But the captain is spot on with the answers he provided.
 
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It's a matter of compression ratio; higher compression ratios require higher octane fuel to avoid detonation.

At one time there was a 91/96 avgas, so it may be that engines originally certificated to run that got included in the 94 STC.
I've never seen 91/96, but if it existed when the type-certification was being done, that would at least provide an opportunity for the engine to be tested with it.
 
@R.L Mauzy large cylinder bore, low rpm, high compression and supercharging all drive a need for higher octane, in conjunction with the required full power ignition advance and mixture setting. Those four factors also decrease the weight and/or complexity of an aircraft engine for a given power output, which is why high octane fuel is a good thing for aircraft performance and practicality. However, most of the engines we fly do not require anything like 100LL fuel, many smaller cylinder engines are certified on 80/87 and could use it if available while other mid-size bore, higher compression engines can run with fuel octane numbers in between 80/87 and 100LL, as described by others.

A side note is that the simple fixed ignition timing on aircraft engines has little impact on fuel octane required as the fixed timing is set to the angle appropriate for maximum power, which is also when you require the most fuel octane. Fixed ignition timing does affect efficiency at lower manifold pressures and high rpm where more advance can be used than at full power. In particular this means fixed ignition timing affects high altitude efficiency for a non-supercharged engine, but it does not affect the octane requirement for full power operation.

Another side note is that dual ignition decreases the fuel octane requirement, in effect like reducing the cylinder bore, so if you have a mag failure detonation is more likely at high power settings.
 
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Another factor that should be considered is that the octane rating on aviation fuels is not measured the same way as it is on the auto fuels you see at the gas station. But the captain is spot on with the answers he provided.

The auto fuel MON rating is similar to the Aviation fuel Lean rating. And auto fuel MON runs about 5 points below the pump number in the US (AKI). So 93 pump fuel is about 88 MON.

94UL would be about 99 AKI auto fuel. 98/99 unleaded auto fuel is available at race tracks and some Sunoco stations. It make AVGAS look cheap. :D
 
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