G5 and early Cirrus?

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by arnoha, Feb 6, 2019.

  1. arnoha

    arnoha Cleared for Takeoff

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    I noticed that the Garmin G5 doesn't have any Cirrus on its current AML. Which does not appear to have been updated since 2017!

    I was looking wistfully into what plane to go into next as my family grows. I will need a real four seater and could probably use six. The early six-pack Cirrus are relatively inexpensive and carry enough load, so I wondered if they could also be upgraded cheaply and make a good choice. I guess there just aren't enough of them for Garmin to certify the G5 to them? Is there another path to installing them? This would really define how interesting these models would be to me.
     
  2. arnoha

    arnoha Cleared for Takeoff

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    Whoops, meant to put this in Avionics, not MX. Oh well. It's here.
     
  3. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    Cirrus being a new design generally have updated avionics so the need for a G5 is probably low.


    Tom
     
  4. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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    Evolution E5 asserting some sort of territorial aggression, perhaps?
     
  5. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    I’d suspect the margin isn’t there.
     
  6. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    G5 is prohibited or being installed in FIKI aircraft, I know all Cirrus aren't but that still eliminates a bunch of them.
     
  7. mkosmo

    mkosmo Pattern Altitude

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    Any idea as to why FIKI specifically?
     
  8. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I am stumped by the limitation as well. Me thinks it is a marketing limitation written into the STC via smoke & mirrors.
     
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  9. mkosmo

    mkosmo Pattern Altitude

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    I'd think a marketing limitation would be "no touch the fiki stuff" -- but excluding the more expensive airplanes means alienating the market that tends to have more income available for extras like G5s!

    I wonder if it's a liability thing since the G5 can't interface ice detection systems, maybe? As if a round-dial could in the first place, either.
     
  10. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    And forcing them to buy more expensive they offer.
     
  11. mkosmo

    mkosmo Pattern Altitude

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    Fair point, I guess I just didn't want to think about it that way lol. G500/600s for everybody!
     
  12. Tantalum

    Tantalum En-Route

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    Well, that, is tantalizing. I wonder why?
     
  13. wayne

    wayne Cleared for Takeoff

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    Gotta have something to put into the upgrade option later for more revenue. :eek:
     
  14. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    I don't know if this is still valid, but it was my understanding Garmin elected not to complete all the requirements (FIKI) under the TSO used for the design/production approval of the G5. As a comparison even antenna TSOs have certain FIKI requirements that not all OEMs complete.
     
  15. mkosmo

    mkosmo Pattern Altitude

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    Sure, but the G5 is entirely internally contained. It has no standalone antennas. So long as the installation uses a navigator that plays nice with FIKI, how would a G5 change the compliance story?
     
  16. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    The Garmin G5 system and all of its components hold no TSO.
     
  17. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    I must of had it backwards then. Most instrument/equipment FIKI certification requirements are found in TSO documents. It has to do with the interface of the pitot/static system and how the instrument handles changes to the pressure/vacuum signals in icing conditions. FIKI tests are very expensive.
     
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  18. Bell206

    Bell206 Pattern Altitude

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    This was just a separate example.
    See post above.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  19. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    They are kind of an oddball considering how these systems were typically approved in the past.

    Between Dad and I we have 5 of them, three magnetometers and two GAD29B (ARINC 429 adapter).
     
  20. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    None of the steam-gauge Cirri were FIKI.

    However, the SR22 wasn't introduced until 2001 and it had a full glass panel starting in 2003, so there were only the first two years of production that would qualify for a G5 anyway. The SR20 was introduced in 1999 so has an extra couple of years, but they don't sell nearly as many 20s as 22s.
     
  21. arnoha

    arnoha Cleared for Takeoff

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    This is what I figured, but the FIKI angle is also interesting. It really bites into the value of those early Cirrus. (Which, I suppose, is part of why they are so relatively cheap.)

    What about the other half of my question? Is there a path to getting these in when it's not on the AML? Or is that a definite hard stop for certified aircraft?
     
  22. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    All you can do is try for a field approval. The local FSDO will probably just send it to an ACO, then the ACO says yes/no.

    Given the gov shutdown(s) I can't imagine getting a field approval is fast.
     
  23. d.grimm

    d.grimm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Call or write Garmin, I wrote them about including
    the one Fleet Canuck 80 on the US Register and it came out in the next revision to the AML.
    Heck, there’s less that 70 left total, must not have been a big deal for them.
    Dave
     
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  24. arnoha

    arnoha Cleared for Takeoff

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    Interesting. I wonder what the process is for adding something to the AML.

    Either way, for now, I don't have a horse in the race. Early Cirrus are just one of many models I'm debating...and my timeline is around two years out.
     
  25. asicer

    asicer En-Route

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