Fun with safety wire

I do have fasteners fall off my cars all the time!
But your idea is still good. Time for a better toothbrush! I have seen some, let me look.... as I recall they were really pricey and a one-time use.
 
arnoha said:
2015 and we're still using safety wire. Why has no one come up with a less laborious process? I get that it works and there will be a chorus of why change what works, but...

... it's labor intensive, so it's very costly, and,

... it requires considerable knowledge and skill to get right.

Love getting my hands dirty and acquiring the skill. Work of beauty when it's done right. But it just makes our planes more expensive. No safety wire on cars, and there is no epidemic of bolts falling out. Instead, they use cotter pins, staked nuts, nylocks, and other positive retention tools. Why don't we see those in aviation? They're cheap and easy to get right and inspect that they're right.
Click to expand...

You need to distinguish between safetying bolts or screws and safetying nuts. Most of the things you described there are used to safety nuts and they are used on aircraft; palnuts, cotter pins, even lock washers. But when you want to safety the head of a bolt or a screw the options are fewer. Yes, you can have a tabbed washer which is more expensive then safety wiring if perhaps a bit less labor intensive but it remains that safety wiring is an economical and practical means of providing security to bolt and screw heads.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I do have fasteners fall off my cars all the time!
But your idea is still good. Time for a better toothbrush! I have seen some, let me look.... as I recall they were really pricey and a one-time use.
Click to expand...

I think you should fire your car mechanic, then... ;) (More seriously, it depends on the vintage of car you like. Modern cars seem to have solved the issue, but classics like to lose parts.)

One time use is fine (safety wire is one time use!), and even expensive is fine. Figure one to two minutes to safety-wire a bolt with experience, so $2-$4 for labor alone. Figure even a $5/fastener is about a wash, once you factor in the rest of the overhead of wiring.
 
JayZ does some safety cabling at the end of the video I posted.

(PS No mechanic has touched the bolts/nuts on my Toy Tundra which had fallen off)
 
GlennAB1 said:
Safety cable, in lieu of safety wire, is gaining acceptance. Airlines are using it more and more.

http://www.dmctools.com/Products/safe-t-cable.html
Click to expand...

That looks amazing! Compatible with the current system, relatively inexpensive, easy to teach, execute, and inspect, just as safe (apparently), and, bonus, no more pokey ends! It's just...better.

Do you need an STC or something to use it? Is it considered a drop-in replacement?

EDIT: Found this.

The FAA Approved Manual (supplied by the OEM) on the specific aircraft (or subsystem) will advise the operator/maintainer if Safe-T-Cable™ is approved by the OEM on that aircraft/application. If it can not be determined from this, or other documentation, the operator/maintainer should contact the OEM assigned representative, and request information concerning the use of Safe-T-Cable™ on that aircraft or subsystem.
Click to expand...

So that's a big...maybe.
 
Last edited:
Let'sgoflying! said:
JayZ does some safety cabling at the end of the video I posted.

(PS No mechanic has touched the bolts/nuts on my Toy Tundra which had fallen off)
Click to expand...

Huh. Go figure. I've got a Taco, so I'm familiar with the Toy trucks. Curious what fell off? Something with positive retention? (Airplane parts without positive retention fall off all the time, too. How many interior screws have you lost?)
 
arnoha said:
Huh. Go figure. I've got a Taco, so I'm familiar with the Toy trucks. Curious what fell off? Something with positive retention? (Airplane parts without positive retention fall off all the time, too. How many interior screws have you lost?)
Click to expand...

yeah.... me too


I have 04 Tundra `170 grand miles and NO problem with anything, especially bolts falling off...:dunno::dunno:
 
arnoha said:
That looks amazing! Compatible with the current system, relatively inexpensive, easy to teach, execute, and inspect, just as safe (apparently), and, bonus, no more pokey ends! It's just...better.

Do you need an STC or something to use it? Is it considered a drop-in replacement?

EDIT: Found this.

So that's a big...maybe.
Click to expand...

It's approved for almost everything where I work, started with GE engines, then Boeing aircraft.
 
Cool but the tool is $500 and the cable appears to be expensive.

I'll keep cutting my hands up:)
 
Thought you all might like this story.

A few years ago, one of my co-workers and I were invited to a “career day” at one of the local schools. We were to talk about our jobs, what we like about them, what our education was, and so on.

My co-worker with me was a salesman, and I’m a technical representative.

After we were through talking about our jobs, the kids asked us questions. These are 4th graders, by the way. One of the kids asked the salesman if it was possible for him to get hurt at work. He replied that it was highly unlikely, as he didn’t work in a hazardous environment, and about the worst thing that could happen to him was that he could get poked by a piece of safety wire. He then commented “Kevin (meaning me) could probable tell you more about that, though.”

I started to tell the kids that the safety wire could be very sharp on the ends, and that it could stab into your fingers or hand, you bled a lot, that it sometimes really hurt, and could often hurt for days thereafter.

One of the kids raised his hand and said “Why do they call it safety wire if it’s so dangerous?”
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Cool but the tool is $500 and the cable appears to be expensive.
I'll keep cutting my hands up:)
Click to expand...

Same here. When I found out the cables are about $10 each.... I thought, you got to be kidding me... and they are kind of a pain, the manual requires that you pull test a swedge before use. Our tool room is required to do that daily. But, they can't be beat for speed and consistency.
 
We've been using Safe-T-Cable for more than 10 years at work. It has its place, but there are a couple of things about it...Don't drop the ferrules as they are horrendous to find when the holder splits open and dozens of the little buggers fly out...It's sometimes hard to get the gun into a location and be able to properly tension the cable before swaging the ferrule. There are places it would easier to use safety wire on our aircraft, but it's not approved anymore. The tips can wear out and are expensive to replace and lastly, the cable and ferrules themselves are expensive. It's terrible to try and thread on a ferrule when holding the cable and you don't have good visual access to blank end of the cable.

On the positive side, it's generally much faster than safety wire. It doesn't take much thinking to use it and even our total klutz electrical guys can make it work.

On the Daniels website, worst cost for a cable and a ferrule is about 3$...for the cost of a package of 50, I can buy lots of safety wire.
 
Last edited:
fiveoboy01 said:
Cool but the tool is $500 and the cable appears to be expensive.

I'll keep cutting my hands up:)
Click to expand...

For an A&P, a $500 tool that can save a bunch of time is easy to justify. But, yeah, for the home-builder or pilot doing allowed mx, that's a tough sell. And safety wire is dirt cheap.

On the other hand, with my plane on leaseback and good A&P hard to find and hire, saving a half-hour in the shop each day means that, first, lower labor costs for me, the owner. People are the most expensive thing, so even a huge jump in the cost of the parts here wouldn't detract from the time and cost savings. Second, if they're moving even just one more job through the hangar every day, that means my plane waits less to get back on the line and making money. (Losing less money? :lol: One month in and it's bleeding red. I think I may have done a dumb thing.)
 
Craig said:
We've been using Safe-T-Cable for more than 10 years at work. It has its place, but there are a couple of things about it...Don't drop the ferrules as they are horrendous to find when the holder splits open and dozens of the little buggers fly out...It's sometimes hard to get the gun into a location and be able to properly tension the cable before swaging the ferrule. There are places it would easier to use safety wire on our aircraft, but it's not approved anymore. The tips can wear out and are expensive to replace and lastly, the cable and ferrules themselves are expensive. It's terrible to try and thread on a ferrule when holding the cable and you don't have good visual access to blank end of the cable.

On the positive side, it's generally much faster than safety wire. It doesn't take much thinking to use it and even our total klutz electrical guys can make it work.

On the Daniels website, worst cost for a cable and a ferrule is about 3$...for the cost of a package of 50, I can buy lots of safety wire.
Click to expand...

10 years? Are the patents expired yet? I'll bet the cost comes way down when the patents expire and there are multiple vendors.
 
arnoha said:
Man, you're all over this. Awesome. Is there third-party for the consumables as well? And if there is, I wonder why the price hasn't dropped. I have a hard time believing it's actually that much to manufacture.
Click to expand...

I don't know if the "consumables" are interchangeable between brands or not? I don't know why anyone would want to manufacture those and give them away...
 
Spend five hundred bucks on that tool and you'll still be safetying your prop by hand because it only does .032 and props require .041 :rolleyes:
 
Just a nose piece change and it will do .020", .041" and .062" also...
 
Silvaire said:
Spend five hundred bucks on that tool and you'll still be safetying your prop by hand because it only does .032 and props require .041 :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Not sure I'd want those little lead ball things spinning round and round vibrating on my prop hub anyways.
 
No lead balls. 321 CRES, INCONEL 625, INCONEL 600. Cable diameters: .022, .032, .040, .062 (.062 requires a different tool altogether)
 
Last edited:
We have the tool at work but honestly it doesn't get used much. There are a few specific applications where it's very useful but 99% of the time it's just plain easier to pull out your pliers and get a piece of wire rather than go check out the tool. It can also be a bit awkward and fidgety.

I think it would be useful in a production environment or large scale assembly where there was a lot of safety wiring to do but on big aircraft most stuff is self lock, there isn't really that much safety wire. Even a moderate sized GA shop wouldn't really see enough safety wiring work to justify it. On a typical annual the oil filter, screen or drain plug and maybe brake caliber bolts but that's about it really.
 
We mostly use it on engine borescope plugs where there may be 15 plugs removed and some are a bear to safetywire (at the VSV's), but the manuals allow for either wire or cable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top