Fuel shortages?

RyanB

RyanB

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It really makes me wonder sometimes, knowing how much fuel is needed for each and every airline flight, particularly the transcons and long hauls. I follow a guy on instagram that flies the 787, he shared a photo saying they were filling up with 33,000 gallons of fuel. That is an enormous amount of fuel, especially if you consider multiple flights like these each day plus the transcons each day plus the short haul flights everyday. I just wonder if a fuel shortage will ever come up. It seems like resources needed to make all this fuel will eventually run dry, I know automobiles are in the same boat. Just something I've thought about.
 
Manufacture and flight of commercial jet aircraft on microbial-generated Jet-A substitute has already been done. We're not running out of fuel anytime soon, and yes, we can make more.
 
We've (we=all humans) have been running out of fuel since day one. It doesn't matter whether it's wood, coal, or oil, energy is always scarce and therefore has tremendous value in our economy.

When people ask me how much oil or gas we have I just ask them how much they are willing to pay for said oil or gas. I've been using that response for more than twenty years. Sometimes people look at me funny but that just tells me about their level of understanding of the world around them.

And since Henning isn't here to spout hydrogen, I'll just point out that alternative forms are available to take the place of hydrocarbons. The alternative forms cost more right now so they are non-starters.
 
It's all about the money,if your wiling to pay the fuel will be there.
 
Ryanb said:
It really makes me wonder sometimes, knowing how much fuel is needed for each and every airline flight, particularly the transcons and long hauls. I follow a guy on instagram that flies the 787, he shared a photo saying they were filling up with 33,000 gallons of fuel. That is an enormous amount of fuel, especially if you consider multiple flights like these each day plus the transcons each day plus the short haul flights everyday. I just wonder if a fuel shortage will ever come up. It seems like resources needed to make all this fuel will eventually run dry, I know automobiles are in the same boat. Just something I've thought about.
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You missed the military. They burn a tremendous about of fuel every day. Just imagine what they burned during the gulf war, Iraq and Afghanistan! Aircraft, ships, tanks, trucks, on and on. Immense! Currently there is a glut of fuel which is why it's cheap. It would be even cheaper if it were not for speculators.
 
The vessel I work on can and has consumed 150 cu/mtr of fuel a day (150,000 liters, 39000 gallons, 273,000 lbs) for a month straight without refueling. All of this was to transit at 6kts/hr. We drove it halfway around the world. It took 5 months.
 
Military JP4 (now JP8) (Jet A) weighs about 6.35 pounds per gallon.

Full up load on a B-1B is about 190,000 pounds of fuel. Fuel flow at heavy weight cruise right after takeoff was about 18,000pph (pounds per hour), low level at 540KGS was about 38,000pph, high altitude cruise coming home light weight was about 13,000pph.

Plus the 50,000 or 100,000 pounds of fuel taken on inflight, and on long missions, more than one refueling.

Plan on about 5-8 flights per squadron on any peace time flying day, maybe more.
That's a lot of fuel.
 
The 767 I flew from Paris to Newark yesterday had 102k# onboard when we pushed. We landed almost 8.5 hours later with about 15k#. That took 225 ish people across the ocean at .82M which works out to about 7gph/per person. (I think I did the math right). Really not too shabby imho.

Now when I fly the F-15 across the pond... Not such a pretty picture.


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EvilEagle said:
Now when I fly the F-15 across the pond... Not such a pretty picture.
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eh? I would imagine the view is way better. Maybe the seat isn't all that comfortable (not to mention the AAR times), but I think I'd prefer the F-15.
 
The first time or three I crossed in the Eagle I loved it. 15 years and a who,e lot of crossings later? I'll take the 76! Besides, what's the point of flying fighters going straight and level? :)


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Use microbes to make fuel and we never ever run out. Moreover, they take the carbon out of the atmosphere when they make the gas. Microbes will fix our energy worries sooner or later, unless Lockheed beats them to it.
 
And just think, if you add all that fuel together for all those aircraft it's still less than what we all collectively burn in cars every day. Funny how we worry about massive amounts of fuel being burned in very large aircraft, but fail to think about how much we use in our cars, simply because each fillup is so little in comparison.
 
Bob Noel said:
What's the point? the flying
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Nah, not in fighter aviation. You get plenty of straight and level time going to/from the training area and traveling to exercises. We are required to do cross country training, but the flying is the least gun part about that. :)

The view is great in the Eagle, don't get me wrong. It's just that after you get over it "being cool" (like maybe the first 1,000 hours or so) you just don't want to be in all that gear, on that uncomfortable seat, in an anti-exposure suit (pond crossings), refueling 10-12 times on a 9-10 hour sortie going straight and level. That's not what it's for: it's like using a Ferrari to practice parallel parking. Can you do it? Of course... Is it fun? Probably not after the first 5 mins.

In fighter aviation, flying = fighting. Anything else is just parallel parking.


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Subsea said:
The vessel I work on can and has consumed 150 cu/mtr of fuel a day (150,000 liters, 39000 gallons, 273,000 lbs) for a month straight without refueling. All of this was to transit at 6kts/hr. We drove it halfway around the world. It took 5 months.
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Henning?
 
EvilEagle said:
Nah, not in fighter aviation. You get plenty of straight and level time going to/from the training area and traveling to exercises. We are required to do cross country training, but the flying is the least gun part about that. :)
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I wondered about that. I live near GJT, and we quite often have pairs of fighters come over from the east, I presume from Colorado Springs. I did figure it was cross-country training for them, but wondered if it was fun or drudgery for them.
 
EvilEagle said:
Nah, not in fighter aviation. You get plenty of straight and level time going to/from the training area and traveling to exercises. We are required to do cross country training, but the flying is the least gun part about that. :)

The view is great in the Eagle, don't get me wrong. It's just that after you get over it "being cool" (like maybe the first 1,000 hours or so) you just don't want to be in all that gear, on that uncomfortable seat, in an anti-exposure suit (pond crossings), refueling 10-12 times on a 9-10 hour sortie going straight and level. That's not what it's for: it's like using a Ferrari to practice parallel parking. Can you do it? Of course... Is it fun? Probably not after the first 5 mins.

In fighter aviation, flying = fighting. Anything else is just parallel parking.
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I'll make you a deal. You get me up to snuff on flying the thing, and I'll do all that straight and level for you. You can take the tube, and then get the gorgeous amazing fighter jet back to do your fighting. I'll even do it for free. Honest.

Besides, I doubt you could parallel park a Ferrari if you tried. Most people can't parallel park anything.
 
StinkBug said:
And just think, if you add all that fuel together for all those aircraft it's still less than what we all collectively burn in cars every day. Funny how we worry about massive amounts of fuel being burned in very large aircraft, but fail to think about how much we use in our cars, simply because each fillup is so little in comparison.
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Probably wrong. What I have read is that the entire US military burns three times the fuel of the rest of America burns each day.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Probably wrong. What I have read is that the entire US military burns three times the fuel of the rest of America burns each day.
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The quote from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is that the military burns about 300,000 gallons a day of all petrochemicals. That's peanuts compared to airlines and automobiles.

Not to mention my weedwhacker.

Jim
 
steingar said:
I'll make you a deal. You get me up to snuff on flying the thing, and I'll do all that straight and level for you. You can take the tube, and then get the gorgeous amazing fighter jet back to do your fighting. I'll even do it for free. Honest.



Besides, I doubt you could parallel park a Ferrari if you tried. Most people can't parallel park anything.
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I used to think the same way.

But we have guys to fly them across - they are called LTs. Some of us old guys always have to fly across too. The commander always leads and the next highest guy on the trip leads the next cell. I just don't volunteer anymore.


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Ryanb said:
It seems like resources needed to make all this fuel will eventually run dry, I know automobiles are in the same boat. Just something I've thought about.
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In case you haven't watched the news for a few years now, there is definitely a fuel crisis going on in the world today. The crisis is that we don't have enough storage to hold the massive glut of oil, with still more being discovered every day.
 
weirdjim said:
The quote from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is that the military burns about 300,000 gallons a day of all petrochemicals. That's peanuts compared to airlines and automobiles.

Not to mention my weedwhacker.

Jim
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Coming from the joint Chiefs of staff chairman I have grave doubts. How can we look this up from an unbiased source? What totals do each burn? I remember reading that, for example, an F15 ,taking off, climbing to altitude , burns enough fuel to heat so many homes for a year, etc. Etc. Don't forget, navy ships, army tanks, armored carriers, on and on. One thing is sure, that is that there's a glut of fuel, has been for some time , and we are getting ripped off big time on fuel prices.
 
I was out on Wake Island (yes, the entrance to no where) and we had Trans-Pacs coming through regularly. The F-18 has to hit the tanker five to seven times between Honolulu and Wake and another five times to get to Japan. I can see why EvilEagle lets the LT's do it.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Coming from the joint Chiefs of staff chairman I have grave doubts. How can we look this up from an unbiased source?
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Actually, it WAS from an unbiased source, a book called "Mad Like Tesla". It concerned alternative energy sources, whether fuel, better fans/propellers, oil producing bacteria, etc.. Now whether or not HE did the homework to prove that the JCS weren't blowing smoke I can't say. I can say he seemed to have a good handle on the stuff that I know for a fact.

Jim
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Coming from the joint Chiefs of staff chairman I have grave doubts. How can we look this up from an unbiased source? What totals do each burn?
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Coming from someone that off-loads gas. The amount of fuel the Air Force alone uses in a day in the desert...is ridiculous. That number doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
Coming from someone that off-loads gas. The amount of fuel the Air Force alone uses in a day in the desert...is ridiculous. That number doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.
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I agree with you! I think the military burns a tremendous amount each day!
There should be a source besides the joint chiefs staff. I think they low balled it.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
Coming from someone that off-loads gas. The amount of fuel the Air Force alone uses in a day in the desert...is ridiculous. That number doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.
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The logistics of getting all that fuel to the desert is mind boggling as well. Jet A at all the bases and had FARPS everywhere. Never had a shortage though.
 
Velocity173 said:
The logistics of getting all that fuel to the desert is mind boggling as well. Jet A at all the bases and had FARPS everywhere. Never had a shortage though.
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YES! Somewhere I read refueling a B52 costs 42 bucks a gallon. (In air)
 
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The good news is that thanks to fracking almost every country of any size can be Saudia Arabia, especially ones where individuals can own mineral rights (like the USA).

The military does use a LOT of fuel. Back when I was an EF-111 EWO it often occurred to me as I walked up that airplane that it was kind of amazing that Uncle Sam gave my bud and me ~4800 gallons of jet fuel just to go fly around for 2.8 hours.
 
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