Frontier Jet strikes person on takeoff in Denver, fatal, 5/9/26

Brad Smith said:
Make the overhead compartments lock during an emergency and let the passengers KNOW ahead of time that it’s useless to try and open them. It’s the only way. In time, humans will get the message.
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Better yet, stop charging for checked bags to encourage people to try to carry less in the cabin. Maybe even charge for the carry-on bag instead. The carry-on problem is of the airline's own making.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Better yet, stop charging for checked bags to encourage people to try to carry less in the cabin. Maybe even charge for the carry-on bag instead. The carry-on problem is of the airline's own making.
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Frontier does charge for carry-on bags. Didn't help in this case.
 
Make everyone who flies on the airlines go through initial and annual recurrent evacuation training.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Better yet, stop charging for checked bags to encourage people to try to carry less in the cabin. Maybe even charge for the carry-on bag instead. The carry-on problem is of the airline's own making.
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I utilize carry-ons because of the possibility of my checked luggage being sent somewhere else.

P.S. This includes when I bring checked luggage. I still have a carry-on with a couple days' worth of clothes.
 
2-Bit Speed said:
I utilize carry-ons because of the possibility of my checked luggage being sent somewhere else.

P.S. This includes when I bring checked luggage. I still have a carry-on with a couple days' worth of clothes.
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I normally check most of my luggage (for free with status), but never put anything that isn't replaceable, and always have a backpack carry-on with necessities. I prefer to be able to navigate the airport terminals and security as light as practical.

Working around the industry I can tell you bags are very rarely lost forever. Some may get delayed, may miss a connection or get mis-routed, or even damaged, but they will usually find their way to you eventually. Airlines get a bad rep for losing bags, but stats don't lie (Less than .03%).
 
midwestpa24 said:
Better yet, stop charging for checked bags to encourage people to try to carry less in the cabin. Maybe even charge for the carry-on bag instead. The carry-on problem is of the airline's own making.
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Charge for total weight passenger and bags. Maybe also charge more if you can't pass a simple test on how to behave on the aircraft.
 
Tools said:
Do you even know the guy? He sounds like he’d be useful… perhaps verbose, only one, so not great coverage, but I think he’d be useful. Just sayin.
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Can you imagine his emergency evacuation announcement from the cockpit?

"Ladies and gentlemen, while contemplating the inescapable descent into decline and financial illiquidity which so characterizes the mortality of the modern working class, and thus engaged eye-to-eye in a quixotic staring contest with that abyssal fiend which surely stared back into me and noted that my own monster-hunting had changed my soul, itself already tattered and sorely in need of ritualistic cleansing, into something surely fit for inclusion in a moldering tome atop a dusty bookshelf itself contained within the four bejeweled walls of the realty class and washed daily with the tears of the latch-key renting proletariat, my gaze happened upon a blinkenlight of some portent to the initiated. After a free and frank exchange of views with my cockpit compatriot, who, despite leanings of a decided utopian universalism, is a fairly solid fellow, we have elected to advise you and all sundry occupants of our military-civilian complex glorified snowblower to defenestrate, debark, and otherwise depart this doomed cylinder utilizing, as the mood may strike you, the playfully inflated inertia-diverting devices manufactured by the lowest-bidding sweatshop in the Global South. Thus amused, we ask that you then mill about and move, amoeba-like, roughly away from this sad husk of a failing enterprise."
 
M20K said:
Actually you are "that guy" if you grab anything. It may not slow you down when you grab it, but when you go to exit the plane it could mess you OR SOMEONE ELSE up trying to get out of the plane.

LEAVE IT! If you have medicine, your wallet, etc., odds are there will be plenty of time to pull it out of the bag at your feet and shove those things in your pockets. But grab the bag... NO!
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See, that presumes that you delayed the process. I don't think that's a given. If you are in your seat, say by the window, and you grab the laptop bag you had at your feet and make sure it's on your shoulder by the time the guy in the aisle seat is moving, how did you slow anyone or anything down?
 
midwestpa24 said:
Better yet, stop charging for checked bags to encourage people to try to carry less in the cabin. Maybe even charge for the carry-on bag instead. The carry-on problem is of the airline's own making.
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That's what I'd do if I were running the airline. Charge for carry-ons, give checked bags for free. Actually, I'd nix the bins entirely. If you can't fit it under the seat, check it.

There was one of the Aeroflot planes a while back I saw that I really liked. You boarded through the cargo hold and put your bags on an available shelf there before heading upstairs to the passenger seats.
 
flyingron said:
That's what I'd do if I were running the airline. Charge for carry-ons, give checked bags for free. Actually, I'd nix the bins entirely. If you can't fit it under the seat, check it.
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Frontier does charge for carry-on bags.

You'll need to get the FAA, or Congress, to ban the overhead bins. Airline passengers like bringing their carry-ons onboard with them, as did these Frontier passengers who paid extra to do so. They will move to the airlines that allow it and away from those that don't.
 
The shoe bomber made life in the airlines pretty good for a few weeks… carry ons basically not allowed.

Boarded quicker, deplaned quicker… brilliant.
 
Tools said:
The shoe bomber made life in the airlines pretty good for a few weeks… carry ons basically not allowed.

Boarded quicker, deplaned quicker… brilliant.
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But it also made you take your shoes off going through security. So more time clearing. No free lunch.
 
Ok, don't take this as arguing the people should grab their luggage, but at the same time the number of problems it's caused seems to be very small. I was curious so searched and saw a lot of pearl clutching statements like "everything turned out ok, but THOSE PEOPLE WITH THEIR BAGS" and incidents where people did actually die but it's not clear that bags had anything to do with it.

For example, a very commonly cited one is Asiana Airlines Flight 214. People did grab bags, but there were two other major issues that caused bigger problems. One, at least one of the slides inflated inside the plane on impact. Two, the pilot didn't order an evacuation for 90 seconds until he saw a fire start. Despite those issues, everyone still alive evacuated successfully. Yet it's still one of the ones you find when you google for this topic. The three people who died? Not due to baggage or other delays. Two weren't wearing seatbelts and were thrown from the plane. The other was crushed by the door during the crash.

Again, I'm good with the idea of leaving bags behind, just saying it's not likely going to move the needle much in terms of accident results and probably an easy to vilify target that's a distraction from other things that matter more.
 
Hang 4 said:
But it also made you take your shoes off going through security. So more time clearing. No free lunch.
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My record for airport security is 20 minutes back and forth through the metal detector because they didn’t want me to take off my boots that had metal in them, and they didn’t want to wand me. Pockets empty and belt off before the first pass.
 
172andyou said:
Ok, don't take this as arguing the people should grab their luggage, but at the same time the number of problems it's caused seems to be very small. I was curious so searched and saw a lot of pearl clutching statements like "everything turned out ok, but THOSE PEOPLE WITH THEIR BAGS" and incidents where people did actually die but it's not clear that bags had anything to do with it.

For example, a very commonly cited one is Asiana Airlines Flight 214. People did grab bags, but there were two other major issues that caused bigger problems. One, at least one of the slides inflated inside the plane on impact. Two, the pilot didn't order an evacuation for 90 seconds until he saw a fire start. Despite those issues, everyone still alive evacuated successfully. Yet it's still one of the ones you find when you google for this topic. The three people who died? Not due to baggage or other delays. Two weren't wearing seatbelts and were thrown from the plane. The other was crushed by the door during the crash.

Again, I'm good with the idea of leaving bags behind, just saying it's not likely going to move the needle much in terms of accident results and probably an easy to vilify target that's a distraction from other things that matter more.
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And none of the people I’ve seen crash the simulator have done so in real life, so training and checking is over-rated?
 
flyingron said:
That's what I'd do if I were running the airline. Charge for carry-ons, give checked bags for free. Actually, I'd nix the bins entirely. If you can't fit it under the seat, check it.
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Probably a poor financial decision. Checked bags require handling a associated resources; carry-ons don't. Giving for free what costs you money and labor is a good path to failure.
 
Wallet, keys, and phone stay on person in flight. Anything that may be left behind in an emergency exit can be replaced.
 
MauleSkinner said:
And none of the people I’ve seen crash the simulator have done so in real life, so training and checking is over-rated?
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Pretty sure I said not once, but twice, that people should leave their bags behind. Just looking for a fight? :-)


Lindberg said:
Checked bags require handling a associated resources; carry-ons don't. Giving for free what costs you money and labor is a good path to failure.
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Or is a big part of how Southwest grew into a force to be reckoned with.
 
Lindberg said:
Southwest never charged for carry-on bags and still doesn't.
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Right. Which is why I quoted the "Giving for free what costs you money and labor is a good path to failure" part. Southwest built a brand, in part, on giving away free bag checking and not only didn't fail, but thrived for 50-ish years.
 
172andyou said:
Right. Which is why I quoted the "Giving for free what costs you money and labor is a good path to failure" part. Southwest built a brand, in part, on giving away free bag checking and not only didn't fail, but thrived for 50-ish years.
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And you ignored the context of what I was responding to, which was several posters suggesting that they'd give away checked bags and charge for carry-ons in order to encourage a shift from carry-ons to checking.

And airlines didn't start charging for checked bags until the 2008 recession, by which time Southwest had already been the largest domestic carrier for several years. So free bags certainly isn't what Southwest was built on, although it did advertise that perk over the past several years (while raising ticket prices).

Nevertheless, Southwest now charges some passengers for checked bags while carry-ons are still free. So I guess my point stands.
 
I feel sorry for the poor engine mechanics who have to tear that engine down after the NTSB releases it. I was barfing while tearing down a J-85 (T-38 engine) on Monday after it ate a chicken hawk and sat all weekend.
 
In my head, I'm combining this thread with the one on seats. What if they just put a giant metal spring around a set of 6 or 8 seats, like a Garand clip, and then launch the whole thing out of the side of the aircraft with explosive bolts? Like a giant cluster bomb unit, but with people instead of bomblets. Little personal airbags for everybody. I say it in jest, but it would be cool to see an animated mockup. They could evacuate an entire plane in about 6 seconds.
 
Albany Tom said:
In my head, I'm combining this thread with the one on seats. What if they just put a giant metal spring around a set of 6 or 8 seats, like a Garand clip, and then launch the whole thing out of the side of the aircraft with explosive bolts? Like a giant cluster bomb unit, but with people instead of bomblets. Little personal airbags for everybody. I say it in jest, but it would be cool to see an animated mockup. They could evacuate an entire plane in about 6 seconds.
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Just eject the overhead bins. People would evacuate the plane to search for their carry-ons in the same 6 seconds.

So, interesting discussion about rummaging through the overhead bins during in evac. I didn't mean to vilify those folks but rather point out the disconnect between the "We're going to die!" narrative versus the video of people making a detour on their way to the slide.
 
MauleSkinner said:
My record for airport security is 20 minutes back and forth through the metal detector because they didn’t want me to take off my boots that had metal in them, and they didn’t want to wand me. Pockets empty and belt off before the first pass.
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That sounds strange. Is there more to the story?
 
M20K said:
That sounds strange. Is there more to the story?
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Other than the guy I was traveling with laughing so hard he couldn’t stand up, not really. They finally wanded me and told me I had metal in my boots. I think they were trying to determine the half-life of whatever was setting off the detector.

FWIW, this was pre-TSA.
 
MauleSkinner said:
FWIW, this was pre-TSA.
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Wow... Back then I remember heading to the security line and remembering I still had my knife in my pocket, so I'd take it out and put it in my computer bag. Problem solved.

Also remember being at some event and someone needed a unique adapter and I was pretty sure I still had one. So I tore apart every part of my computer bag and never found the adapter, but did find a serrated knife I thought was in one of my hiking backpacks. It must have been in there for months and easily 30 trips (60+ security checks) and no, this was not pre TSA, this was post 911 with half of those security checks at one of the NYC airports. Oops.:eek:
 
M20K said:
Wow... Back then I remember heading to the security line and remembering I still had my knife in my pocket, so I'd take it out and put it in my computer bag. Problem solved.
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Pre-9/11 as long as the blade was less than (I think) 4”, you could wear it on your belt if you wanted to. OTOH, my uncle had a letter opener confiscated once because the blade was too long.

Also remember being at some event and someone needed a unique adapter and I was pretty sure I still had one. So I tore apart every part of my computer bag and never found the adapter, but did find a serrated knife I thought was in one of my hiking backpacks. It must have been in there for months and easily 30 trips (60+ security checks) and no, this was not pre TSA, this was post 911 with half of those security checks at one of the NYC airports. Oops.:eek:
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I had a folding scissors confiscated that had been in my backpack for probably a couple of years of fairly regular airline travel. Of course, if you really want to freak them out, carry harmonicas.
 
flyingron said:
That's what I'd do if I were running the airline. Charge for carry-ons, give checked bags for free. Actually, I'd nix the bins entirely. If you can't fit it under the seat, check it.

There was one of the Aeroflot planes a while back I saw that I really liked. You boarded through the cargo hold and put your bags on an available shelf there before heading upstairs to the passenger seats.
Click to expand...
Seats? Sit on fresh hay on floor.
 
MauleSkinner said:
My record for airport security is 20 minutes back and forth through the metal detector because they didn’t want me to take off my boots that had metal in them, and they didn’t want to wand me. Pockets empty and belt off before the first pass.
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Well before 9/11 when hijackers were diverting airliners to Cuba, my family with 3 little kids was going through security at the Jacksonville Fl airport.

The 3 year old was carrying a 10” to 12” long rubber alligator which was confiscated… definitely not allowed. The kid screamed bloody murder. As usual, we were running late and I didn’t have time to nicely argue the bizarre.

Americans have put up with airport security theater for way too long.
 
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