Forward slip

The airplane will not track the centerline in a side slip in a zero wind condition.

Yes, but why would you do that on final unless you are using an odd method of course correction. If you're slipping on final in a zero wind condition, it's to lose altitude, in which case you would use a forward slip.
 
Yes, but why would you do that on final unless you are using an odd method of course correction. If you're slipping on final in a zero wind condition, it's to lose altitude, in which case you would use a forward slip.

I still don't get all the hullaballoo and why you all continue to debate and discuss forward vs. side slip. I mean, I know internet discussion forums exist for the purpose of passing time with overcomplicated pointless flying discussion, but this forward/side slip stuff takes the cake.
 
I still don't get all the hullaballoo and why you all continue to debate and discuss forward vs. side slip. I mean, I know internet discussion forums exist for the purpose of passing time with overcomplicated pointless flying discussion, but this forward/side slip stuff takes the cake.

So we can rack up posts. Get with the program!
 
I used to tell my students that if you put 50 pilots in a room and asked them all one simple question, you would get 100 different answers..
 
I still don't get all the hullaballoo and why you all continue to debate and discuss forward vs. side slip. I mean, I know internet discussion forums exist for the purpose of passing time with overcomplicated pointless flying discussion, but this forward/side slip stuff takes the cake.

Ha, do a New Posts query and look at all the non-aviation related topics. I would rather discuss slips all day than try to figure out what my TV viewing habits say about my political opinions.

Maybe that's just me.:dunno:
 
You guys/gals (what is the ratio of guy members to female members - I await the next poll) for all your inputs. I figured it'd be a simple "forward slip is x and a side slip is y" But I'm all for boosting posting counts! :) Look it here I just added one to my own count.
 
Sweet I'm up to 232 postings now! :)
 
You guys/gals (what is the ratio of guy members to female members - I await the next poll) for all your inputs. I figured it'd be a simple "forward slip is x and a side slip is y" But I'm all for boosting posting counts! :) Look it here I just added one to my own count.

Myself and others provided you with some very straight-forward explanations.

Didn't it help??

And why don't you want to ask your CFI?? Does he/she bite??
 
Ha, do a New Posts query and look at all the non-aviation related topics. I would rather discuss slips all day than try to figure out what my TV viewing habits say about my political opinions.

Maybe that's just me.:dunno:

Sounds more interesting and useful than side/forward slip. :)

How about we debate and discuss the difference between making a turn to establish a crab, and turning to depart the pattern. One is a "side turn" and one is a "forward turn". I think we need to introduce these terms into the aviation lexicon in order to sustain the overly academic nature of flight training, and to weed out those students who just can't grasp such important concepts. :)
 
It all helped! My CFI does not bite. I REALLY didn't think it'd go on this long. Thought it would be a little more straightforward. If we all asked our CFI questions there wouldn't be a whole section on this website for us!
 
It all helped! My CFI does not bite. I REALLY didn't think it'd go on this long. Thought it would be a little more straightforward. If we all asked our CFI questions there wouldn't be a whole section on this website for us!

saracelica:

Explain what you do in a cross wind landing, if you don't mind.
 
All of this talk about forward slips made me want to do some again so I just did one at Dutchess Co. Airport (KPOU) after a short one hour flight from Long Island. Boy I forgot how much fun it is to do. It's been awhile:)
 
All of this talk about forward slips made me want to do some again so I just did one at Dutchess Co. Airport (KPOU) after a short one hour flight from Long Island. Boy I forgot how much fun it is to do. It's been awhile:)

I used to fly out of McArthur back in the 1970's... Made that hop to Dutches County a bunch of times. Had some family living out that way. Loved that flight over the sound. Did it at night once or twice too. Um Um... the good old days!!!
 
Yes, but why would you do that on final unless you are using an odd method of course correction. If you're slipping on final in a zero wind condition, it's to lose altitude, in which case you would use a forward slip.

What if you're both fixing a mild crosswind AND losing altitude at the same time... what do you call that slip? ;) :stirpot:

I only ask to point out for the OP that the reality is, the two definitions aren't super important. Aircraft control is.

A slip is a slip.

FAA wants you to know if you've pointed the aircraft off centerline in essentially a no wind condition, and you're looking out your side window at the runway in a slip, that's a "side slip".

If you're pointed at the runway and have a big slip in to correct for a crosswind so the runway stays in the front window, that's a "forward" slip.

When the runway is hidden by the door pillar halfway inbetween and you're looking to both correct for wind and add more drag to lose altitude...

They don't have a name for that. ;) ;) ;)

Call it whichever one you like. The airplane doesn't know the difference. ;)
 
I used to fly out of McArthur back in the 1970's... Made that hop to Dutches County a bunch of times. Had some family living out that way. Loved that flight over the sound. Did it at night once or twice too. Um Um... the good old days!!!

It was a beautiful flight! I fly out of Republic so I went south of JFK out to the Hudson River Class B exclusion, then just followed the river up to KPOU. This was my first time landing there. Nice airport. On the way home I flew over Stewart via D transition then back out to the river, keeping well clear of West Point!:)

As for the forward slip, I was pleased at how well I remembered how to execute it. I think I did pretty good for someone that haven't done one in ten years! Can't wait to review my video footage.
 
It was a beautiful flight! I fly out of Republic so I went south of JFK out to the Hudson River Class B exclusion, then just followed the river up to KPOU. This was my first time landing there. Nice airport. On the way home I flew over Stewart via D transition then back out to the river, keeping well clear of West Point!:)

As for the forward slip, I was pleased at how well I remembered how to execute it. I think I did pretty good for someone that haven't done one in ten years! Can't wait to review my video footage.

Who do you rent from at Republic? I fly out of there as well, with Empire. Nice route you took up, as well! The JFK South Shore route is a lot of fun to fly.
 
What if you're both fixing a mild crosswind AND losing altitude at the same time... what do you call that slip? ;) :stirpot:

I only ask to point out for the OP that the reality is, the two definitions aren't super important. Aircraft control is.

A slip is a slip.

FAA wants you to know if you've pointed the aircraft off centerline in essentially a no wind condition, and you're looking out your side window at the runway in a slip, that's a "side slip".

If you're pointed at the runway and have a big slip in to correct for a crosswind so the runway stays in the front window, that's a "forward" slip.

When the runway is hidden by the door pillar halfway inbetween and you're looking to both correct for wind and add more drag to lose altitude...

They don't have a name for that. ;) ;) ;)

Call it whichever one you like. The airplane doesn't know the difference. ;)

Well since you have the definitions backwards, it's probably just best to just not worry about which is which and just "slip as needed"
 
What if you're both fixing a mild crosswind AND losing altitude at the same time... what do you call that slip? ;) :stirpot:

I only ask to point out for the OP that the reality is, the two definitions aren't super important. Aircraft control is.

A slip is a slip.

FAA wants you to know if you've pointed the aircraft off centerline in essentially a no wind condition, and you're looking out your side window at the runway in a slip, that's a "side slip".

If you're pointed at the runway and have a big slip in to correct for a crosswind so the runway stays in the front window, that's a "forward" slip.

When the runway is hidden by the door pillar halfway inbetween and you're looking to both correct for wind and add more drag to lose altitude...

They don't have a name for that. ;) ;) ;)

Call it whichever one you like. The airplane doesn't know the difference. ;)

Hold both types of slips all the way to touchdown on the runway. The airplane will be able to identify the forward slip immediately as being "different"..:yikes:
 
Well since you have the definitions backwards, it's probably just best to just not worry about which is which and just "slip as needed"

Incidentally, when the great Wolfgang Langeweische wrote "Stick and Rudder" in 1944, "side slip" meant the altitude-losing type of slip. This actually makes a lot more sense to me than saying the opposite. Non-pilots who see me slipping (to lose altitude) in to land for the first time always comment about how nervous I made them coming in "sideways". Everything about the modern definition of "side slip" is actually forward...the airplane's trajectory forward down the runway, as well as the alignment of the nose forward down the runway. The modern terms make no sense and matter even less. And here I am again contributing to this pointless discussion. :)
 
Incidentally, when the great Wolfgang Langeweische wrote "Stick and Rudder" in 1944, "side slip" meant the altitude-losing type of slip. This actually makes a lot more sense to me than saying the opposite. Non-pilots who see me slipping (to lose altitude) in to land for the first time always comment about how nervous I made them coming in "sideways". Everything about the modern definition of "side slip" is actually forward...the airplane's trajectory forward down the runway, as well as the alignment of the nose forward down the runway. The modern terms make no sense and matter even less. And here I am again contributing to this pointless discussion. :)

So you call ailerons and elevators "flippers"?
 
Who do you rent from at Republic? I fly out of there as well, with Empire. Nice route you took up, as well! The JFK South Shore route is a lot of fun to fly.

Long Island Aviators. I just got back into flying last July, after a ten year hiatus. Haven't heard of Empire before.

Yes the JFK South shore route is a lot of fun! and the only 500' straight & level flying I've ever done. I real blast!
 
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So you call ailerons and elevators "flippers"?

Hell yeah. :) The elevator doesn't necessary elevate the airplane even when you're trying to...think stall. Pull back a little and you go up, pull back more and you go down. Plus, the elevator can just as easily make the airplane descend - ie. forward elevator. And guess what - push forward a little and you go down, push down more and you still go down.

So our "elevators" could just as well be called "descenders". Yep, "flippers" actually makes a lot more sense, and wouldn't mislead the newbies so badly. Bet we'd cut down on all those stall/spin accidents if we called them "flippers". :D
 
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There are good graphics in the citation.

Consider where the nose is in relation to a ground reference to distinguish between the two.

nevertheless, it's a joyous wonder when a pilot can actually do a slip -- forward or side.

Slips are too rarely taught or employed.

Most ignorance has been caused by the "There's a slip prohibition with full flaps!" nonsense.
I flew with a guy who said that his instructor said, "Bad things will happen if you slip the airplane"....If it's so "bad", then why is it on the list of required pre-solo training?:rolleyes2:
 
I flew with a guy who said that his instructor said, "Bad things will happen if you slip the airplane"....If it's so "bad", then why is it on the list of required pre-solo training?:rolleyes2:


Well, sometimes folks confuse skids with slips.

One is never good. The other should be a required skill!
 
Well since you have the definitions backwards, it's probably just best to just not worry about which is which and just "slip as needed"

:rofl: Sheesh. Good lord, posted before coffee again.

Kinda shows the point though. I don't care which one I'm doing. ;)

I care that the Mr. Longitudinal axis of Mr. Flying Machine is aligned with Mr. Runway when I touch down.

Up until that point it's "whatever control inputs necessary to achieve the desired result in flight path and approach angle". :) :) :)
 
Want to see most of us nose-draggers get head fully up and locked?

Make student on a no-wind day start high on final and transition back and forth from a slip with the nose pointed left, then right, then left, continue as altitude and time permit.

May want to try that one at altitude first. :)

Pick a point on the horizon and get up 3000' AGL. Now slip with the left wing down while still tracking toward that ground point. Switch it to right wing down. Switch back.

The first few times are comedy gold.

Especially if you are a feet-on-the-floor nosedragger pilot like I was when my instructor made me do it. ;)
 
I've flown with two CFIs in the past couple of months -- my regular guy has a new job and was gone for a couple of weeks, so I flew with another one last week.

CFI #1 - ALWAYS slip for a crosswind landing. Right crosswind like today? Lots of right aileron, lots of left rudder. Lots. Oh, and way more throttle than usual, and only two notches of flaps.

CFI #2 - Crab in all the way, straighten out just as you flare.

CFI #1 says that way you KNOW if the x-wind is too strong for you to land. Full aileron and rudder deflection? Find somewhere else to land.

CFI #2 says... "Hey, nice landing. Just try to keep the centerline next time."

Using the slip to track the centerline with the nose seems harder... which is why I want to master it. And, while I do worry a little about the amount of throttle needed and about suddenly ending up with too much bank too close to the ground, I don't worry about landing at an angle to the runway and either the airplane departing the pavement or the main gear departing the airplane. :) The slip just seems like a more skilled maneuver. But, at 8 hours - -what do I know?
 
::time to trot out the "doctrine vs technique" discussion::

Doctrine = the way to think about things; an underlying schema of understanding

Technique = particular actions taken to achieve intent; activities that support the end state in line with doctrine


Bottom line: many techniques, very few doctrines.
 
But, at 8 hours - -what do I know?
That if you ask 2 instructors, you get 4 different answers?

In general, the objective is to get the airplane on the runway pointed pretty much in the same direction as the runway. The second part is more important when you have the tailwheel on the correct end of the aircraft.

If you float at all, it's hard to keep it near the middle without some slip. A quick wheel landing helps avoid the float, but it's probably not an option with what you are flying (I assume you drive a nosedragger).
 
That if you ask 2 instructors, you get 4 different answers?

Boy, ain't that the truth? :) It's interesting, though, getting two different perspectives -- and two entirely different sets of priorities.
If you float at all, it's hard to keep it near the middle without some slip. A quick wheel landing helps avoid the float, but it's probably not an option with what you are flying (I assume you drive a nosedragger).
I am. As much as I'd love to learn in a tailwheel airplane, I have yet to see anywhere around here using them for primary training. :) I think a Maule would make a dandy second plane, though, when SWMBO decides the cockpit of a Warrior or whatever is too small.
 
Using the slip to track the centerline with the nose seems harder... which is why I want to master it. And, while I do worry a little about the amount of throttle needed and about suddenly ending up with too much bank too close to the ground, I don't worry about landing at an angle to the runway and either the airplane departing the pavement or the main gear departing the airplane. :) The slip just seems like a more skilled maneuver. But, at 8 hours - -what do I know?

In general, you are going to land in a slip whether you choose to start the slip as soon as you turn final, or whether you start the slip during roundout. For that reason, I don't get why folks argue and discuss the difference in technique, as if there really is one. If slipping all the way down final makes you feel better, and that you are developing your skills more, by all means. I just think it's unnecessary. Some people might say starting the slip during roundout takes more skill because you are managing the alignment change simultaneously with your vertical descent change, rather than setting one before the other...i.e. more workload in a short span of time.

Regarding slipping all the way down so that you can tell whether the wind is too strong, I don't put much stock in that idea. Wind is generally not as strong at the ground as it is several hundred feet up on approach. Plus, it's not like you have to make a go around before getting below a certain height above the ground. You can go around when you're 3" off the ground, if the wind is too strong to correct for. If you don't like what you see during the landing, go around, whether you're hundreds of feet in the air, or inches.
 
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Using the slip to track the centerline with the nose seems harder... which is why I want to master it.

Not hard. The basics are rudder for alignment with runway (same heading even if you're off to one side a bit) and more or less bank with aileron to "slide left/right" or "hold what you've got".

The trick is, of course, adverse yaw and keeping it "equally uncoordinated" as you move the ailerons. So make gentle corrections. ;) And changing wind, of course.

It kinda "takes care of itself" with that technique.

If you level out the rudder pressure you're holding will push the nose of the aircraft away from the runway heading. Don't let it keep moving. Relax pressure.

If you use aileron to bank, the nose will (eventually after going the other way first from adverse yaw) chase around to start a turn. Don't let it. Push on the rudder to stay aligned with the runway.

Feet keep the nose locked in one direction. Don't let it move.

Aileron/bank to slide left/right to center up.

It's easier to demonstrate it, than to type it. ;)
 
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