Flew through a TFR.

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by AnthonyS1, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    Yes, no way should you ever confess. They only have your voice on the tower recording, witnesses at your airport of landing, your voice recorded on a Tracon phone, and your tail number if your Mode S.

    What will happen will vary with the FSDO the violation occurred and the inspector assigned. Some are less hammer down than others.
     
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  2. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pre-takeoff checklist

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    What a bunch of malarkey
     
  3. JohnWF

    JohnWF Pre-takeoff checklist

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    As a former FAA/CAA technical worker, I am always reminded of the phrase, "The mills of the Gods grind amazingly slowly, but they grind amazingly fine." In other words the machinery will eventually spit out what you are waiting for.
     
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  4. JCranford

    JCranford Pattern Altitude

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    Hire 6PC to help with the video.
     
  5. Sinistar

    Sinistar Pattern Altitude

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    Well, you weren't taken into custody so the Secret Service probably wasn't too worried about you....that's good.

    Too bad the buyer wasn't the PIC.

    I bet it takes more than 2 weeks to hear from them.
     
  6. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Cleared for Takeoff

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    I've mentioned this before in other threads, but I'll reiterate here. An ASOS/AWOS is not an ATIS, and should not be depended on to provide anything more than weather. True, some AWOS have an ability to add a voice recording, and some airports have used that for NOTAMs. But it is neither required, or even available at all airports. Please, please check NOTAMs via regular sources.
     
  7. ARFlyer

    ARFlyer En-Route

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    Be honest and don’t hide anything. If you want a lawyer then that’s perfectly acceptable. You might get a Compliance Action or an Enforcement.
     
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  8. Sundancer

    Sundancer En-Route

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    Don't sweat whether the intercept was initiated - it's a training square filled for them, and no one is going to bill you for the F-16 fuel or flight time - and it doesn't materially change the facts. The Guard won't complain, and the FAA doesn't really care about the cost. I fly out of the DC FRZ, and sometimes TFRs pop-up, with little or no notice, but I think in your case it was probably NOTAM'ed well in advance. So, no excuse there. . .

    You did some things right - you bolted back when you found out about the TFR, you didn't try to hide, or BS anyone; get some legal advice, for sure, but if the local cops didn't meet you, and no one with a gun has shown up to talk to you, my knee jerk reaction is it'll be between just you and the FAA.
     
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  9. amster105

    amster105 Filing Flight Plan

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    Look at Faasafety.gov and sign yourself up for TFR email notifications if you aren't an aopa member.
     
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  10. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    I never implied AWOS was a reliable information source for TFR or runway closures... only that it 'might' have included the TFR. In my experience I have heard about fuel pumps closed for service and or runway closures via AWOS. Of course NOTAMS should be checked.
     
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  11. texasclouds

    texasclouds Line Up and Wait

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    They said your first day in prison you either need to beat someone up or become a prison wife. Are you good at fighting?
     
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  12. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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  13. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    That sucks.
     
  14. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    Why don't all the couch comedians here just take a hike? Sometimes, levity is not appropriate as clever as you think you may sound

    Just my 2c
     
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  15. Stingray Don

    Stingray Don En-Route

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  16. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    Yeah, why would someone come to POA for amusement/ enjoyment?
     
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  17. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    You’re not going to jail, paying any fines or getting your PPL revoked. With the FAAs compliance philosophy, you’ll at most get a 30 day suspension for a first time inadvertent TFR bust. Your situation doesn’t qualify but hopefully you’ll just get remedial training.
     
  18. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    So if you get a 30 day suspension can you fly with an instructor or are you grounded.
     
  19. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    There's no reason to change your plans. There hasn't been any enforcement action against your certificate, yet, and there likely will not be any.
     
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  20. sarangan

    sarangan Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Thank you for posting this link, and for the OP for telling his story. If someone can't learn from the guy's story, the least you can do it leave him alone. Making jokes about it is the height of arrogance and invulnerability - a hazardous attitude that will eventually get you in trouble. This posting has reminded me that I too have fallen out of the habit of calling 800-wxbrief for TFR information, and have relied mostly on email alerts and flight apps. This is a good reminder that none of them contain the last word on TFR.

    I hope things work out well for the OP, and I hope he has the sense to ignore the monkeys in this forum.
     
  21. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I haven't used foreflight for a long time. Does it do full briefings and store the session? Or is just view while connected?

    I use weathermeister.com and it logs the briefing sessions, similar to if you call 800-wxbrief. This means that there is a record of collecting all information relating to the flight and if you briefed the flight 15 minutes before launch but the TFR popped up 5 minutes before than you could show that you made a reasonable effort.
     
  22. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    My problem with the advice of "always call 800-wxbrief to ensure you're safe from TFRs"...try asking them about stadium TFRs, and see what you get for an answer (if you haven't tried it, I'll just tell you now: they usually have no idea).
     
  23. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    I thought the jokes were funny.
     
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  24. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    A person can fly on a suspended certificate as long as there is another pilot in the plane that is qualified to be PIC for that plane, and current medical.
     
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  25. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

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    No, but I heard he bakes an amazing oatmeal scotchie.
     
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  26. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Or, take advantage of the time to get the airplane in the shop for that upgrade you have been waiting to do .
     
  27. sarangan

    sarangan Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That's interesting. But how does that happen? They are looking at the same NOTAM database. If they missed it, then at least it is on tape that you requested a briefing and they failed to provide that information.
     
  28. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    If I get my on-line briefing from LocMart before I leave the house and there is no TFR listed, I've done what I need to do. I've played the game. I've complied with the rules. It ain't my fault that the system is totally effed up, and I just ain't gonna worry about it. If the FAA wants to shut me down for 30 or 60 days, then they are going to do what they are going to do. Perhaps I could get Mr. 6PC to help me make a youtube video about it.
     
  29. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    How does what happen? If you bust a stadium TFR, then it's on you because LocMart told you that they can't tell you one way or the udder and it's up to you to check the MLB, NLF, Nascar, NCAA, whatever schedules and be aware of any overtime or game delays. It's on you, not LocMart, not the FAA, you.
     
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  30. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Get a briefing from ESPN as well as LocMart before you fly. :)
     
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  31. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

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    Because stadium TFRs aren't usually in the NOTAM database. As @Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe points out, its on you to find them.

    To avoid them, I've heard some recommend always flying IFR, while others say never fly cross country under 3500 AGL. Of course at some point you have to land...
     
  32. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Weathermeister is an excellent product. Everything on one page and the graphical map has always been accurate and up to date in displaying TFRs in my experience.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
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  33. texasclouds

    texasclouds Line Up and Wait

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    I do thank you for sharing, and will try to learn from your mistake. I hope you fair well.
     
  34. woodchucker

    woodchucker Line Up and Wait

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    Why would that be your problem? If you call for the briefing you are on record and any TFR bust won’t be on you.

    Great article btw linked by @Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
     
  35. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    I, for one, find a lot of introspective value in the OP's post. Like most of us, I like to think of myself as a reasonably diligent pilot, but can I truly say I check all of the NOTAMs, call for a briefing, every time I decide to fly on a clear and a million day like today?

    I am signed-up for the alerts for TFR airspace, and that is useful, but (as others have noted) subscribing to alerts hardly discharges your responsibility in this respect.

    To the OP: Best of luck!
     
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  36. ircphoenix

    ircphoenix En-Route

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    Zero times. The answer to this question is zero times. I always, at minimum, open up Avare and download weather and TFRs. Before every flight. Always.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
     
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  37. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Except stadiums, then it is on you.

    And, even if in the end, TSA decides that you broke no laws...

    https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...lessons-learned-from-sheriff-in-glider-arrest

    "But he defended the decision to hold Robin Fleming overnight and charge him with breach of peace. He said the local FBI had told them to hold the pilot for questioning, something they couldn’t do without a charge. The breach of peace charge is minor, he said, used for anything out of the ordinary, especially something that causes a law enforcement response."

    In other words: we decided to throw him in jail and came up with an excuse after the fact.
     
  38. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yesterday's stadium TFR would have been an odd case. There was an NCAA Division 1 game so the stadium TFR would have been in effect, and the President was there, too, so that TFR would have been on top of it.

    With college bowl season coming up, be ready for more stadium TFRs.
     
  39. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    yah, the stadium TFR's are usually easy if you're on Flight Following and coming to land. But I still ask to tie up the freq a bit to make sure they know. [aggies and horned frogs mess with my routes sometimes]
     
  40. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 Cleared for Takeoff

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    invulnerability is that really the word you wanted to use?

    Definition of invulnerable. 1 : incapable of being wounded, injured, or harmed. 2 : immune to or proof against attack : impregnable

    "a hazardous attitude that will eventually get you in trouble." How can I get into trouble if I am at the height of invulnerability?

    I know that you are a CFII and all but...

    Kind Regards,
    Morgan3820, PLL, IR, ME, CAF, BOC, Knights of the Garter, and many more..